Changing cults and Rune pools

[radmonger]

4 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

yep another question then, is there one runepool for Orlanth thunderous and Orlanth Odayla or because one is an orlanth's mask and the other a god, does that mean two runepools ?

 

I do think there are some missing rules covering cult progression or transition as opposed to initiation. Moving from cult A to cult B in a more or less  culturally-expected and magically-supported way seems inherently different from joining a cult as a stranger in town. For example, I can't see that switching from Ernalda to Asrelia, Vinga to or from Ernalda, Orlanth Adventerous to Lhankor Lawspeaker, or Humakt to Yanafal Tarnils counts as a new cult initiation in the rules sense. Surely there is some ritual where a powerful Ernaldan priestess widowed by Lunars dyes her hair red and becomes an equally powerful Vingan for a year? 

Odayla and Yinkin are just two cases where the lack of such explicit rules causes confusion. A quick suggestion is that in the case of mutually-associated cults, learning the spell provided by the association is the only inherent requirement. Though there may of course be additional conditions enforced by either side, at the level of cult, temple or individual priest.

You only get a 'split' rune pool if you join the graph of associated cults at two different starting points. In short, if you turned the cults book into a diagram, it would look something like this.

 

[David Scott]

12 hours ago, radmonger said:

I do think there are some missing rules covering cult progression or transition as opposed to initiation

These sound very much like roleplaying opportunities that can be done using MGF, using the adventurer's passions.

12 hours ago, radmonger said:

Ernalda to Asrelia

Covered in the upcoming cults book: An Earth Priestess of Ernalda past child-bearing age may retire her position and automatically become a priestess of Asrelia with further requirements.

12 hours ago, radmonger said:

Ernalda Vinga to or from Ernalda

Make a temporary Ernalda Vinga subcult that gives them Fearless. Base this round the Vinga shrine found in any Ernaldan Great Temple (Orlanth Adventurous is an an associate cult).

Personally I don't really see the need for new rules that will rarely be needed, but I understand that's not the way every GM wants their game to work. I'm always happy to make up new stuff and bend the rules so we can get on with the game.

[Akhôrahil]

13 hours ago, radmonger said:

I do think there are some missing rules covering cult progression or transition as opposed to initiation. Moving from cult A to cult B in a more or less  culturally-expected and magically-supported way seems inherently different from joining a cult as a stranger in town.

Another example where this would make sense is joining CA or Humakt to handle Re-Life Sickness post-resurrection.

The system in place makes changing cults absolutely crippling.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Akhôrahil

[radmonger]

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

Personally I don't really see the need for new rules that will rarely be needed, but I understand that's not the way every GM wants their game to work. I'm always happy to make up new stuff and bend the rules so we can get on with the game.

If you know how (your) Glorantha works, then I agree you personally have no such need for explicit rules. Now I think I understand how this area works, I don't really either. Though it certainly helps discussion here if everyone on the same page...

More importantly, it will help GMs new to Glorantha to learn the craft if the rules of RQ:G don't have an obvious interpretation that is quite so directly contradictory of that shared understanding how Glorantha works. It's obvious to me that someone 'graduating' from Ernalda to Asrelia is not going to be attacked by a spirit of retribution, and if the rules said they would be, then the rules would be wrong. But someone new to RQ:G only has the words of the rules to guide them in building that understanding of how the world works,

Odayla and Yinkin were new to me as playable cults with RQ:G. Until these two threads, I didn't have that kind of understanding of their internal cultural and mythic logic. And if anything, the rules were a hindrance in building that understanding. It is a bit too easy to interpret them as treating polytheism as if were the plural of monotheism, such that one more follower of Yinkin means one less believer in Orlanth.

The Red Book of Magic repeated and updated the general section of how magic works from RQ:G; is the cults book going to be doing the same for the section on rune cults?

[French Desperate WindChild]

from my perspective (or my taste) I would not facilitate transition from one cult to another.

Yes of course there are obvious transitions like (voria -> ernalda ->asrelia)

but  that is not because the "next" god is in the same pantheon that it must be easy.

You are Orlanth and want to become LM ? you have to work, learn new secrets, learn/develop the runes.

That is not a rune pool transfer. Of course your "first" priest will probably not disagree, maybe grunt, maybe not, but that's all. You change your god, your devotion.

 

the big difference with other pantheons is, for me, priest attitude, and family/bloodline/community attitude too.

but,if the cults book doesn't say it is easy to move from A to B, well, it means, you have to sacrifice pow, etc..

 

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by French Desperate WindChild

[David Scott]

2 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Another example where this would make sense is joining CA or Humakt to handle Re-Life Sickness post-resurrection.

Fortunately Re-Life Sickness isn't part of RQG, and as part of HeroQuest didn't affect everyone.

 

[Akhôrahil]

1 minute ago, David Scott said:

Fortunately Re-Life Sickness isn't part of RQG, and as part of HeroQuest didn't affect everyone.

I know it isn't in the rules, but is it gone from the setting altogether?

[radmonger]

20 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

You are Orlanth and want to become LM ? you have to work, learn new secrets, learn/develop the runes.

Yes, if as a teenager you run away and leave the clan, find work in the big city as a scribe, or somehow support yourself as a philosopher.

No, if you stay with the clan until your beard turns grey and your sword arm isn't as strong as it used to be. But, from those decades of life, and having solid values in the corresponding runes, you know more about clan traditions and laws than anyone else alive. People start to come to you for advice, which implies taking on the role of Lawspeaker. To help you into that role, you first gain the associated LM Rune Spell from the clan shrine. Then you make a point of going to the big city on the right Holy days to learn the magic that supports that.  Now the priest at the Jonstown Library may regard you as an uneducated bumpkin, but educating Lawspeakers is part of their religious duty, and they need your donations to fund their research. So they mostly limit any oppostion to dark sarcasms they think you don't notice.

You can renew all the spells you learnt at your local clan temple, so once you feel you have everything you need, you no longer need maintain active ties to the Library. You are still a full can member in good standing, i.e. an Orlanthi.

Maybe you even take to your new role beyond expectations, and establish a wider reputation as fair and wise. So a tribal or higher leader appoints you to as formal position as part of their retinue. You start your path to becoming a Rune level of Lhankor Mhy.  Your duties take you away from the clan, and your membership finally lapses.

[French Desperate WindChild]

1 hour ago, radmonger said:

Yes, if as a teenager you run away and leave the clan, find work in the big city as a scribe, or somehow support yourself as a philosopher.

No, if you stay with the clan until your beard turns grey and your sword arm isn't as strong as it used to be. But, from those decades of life, and having solid values in the corresponding runes, you know more about clan traditions and laws than anyone else alive. People start to come to you for advice, which implies taking on the role of Lawspeaker. To help you into that role, you first gain the associated LM Rune Spell from the clan shrine. Then you make a point of going to the big city on the right Holy days to learn the magic that supports that.  Now the priest at the Jonstown Library may regard you as an uneducated bumpkin, but educating Lawspeakers is part of their religious duty, and they need your donations to fund their research. So they mostly limit any oppostion to dark sarcasms they think you don't notice.

You can renew all the spells you learnt at your local clan temple, so once you feel you have everything you need, you no longer need maintain active ties to the Library. You are still a full can member in good standing, i.e. an Orlanthi.

Maybe you even take to your new role beyond expectations, and establish a wider reputation as fair and wise. So a tribal or higher leader appoints you to as formal position as part of their retinue. You start your path to becoming a Rune level of Lhankor Mhy.  Your duties take you away from the clan, and your membership finally lapses.

I don't understand your "no, if you stay with the clan"

I fully agree with your story telling, and all you describe about the knowledge you have because experience / age fit exactly with what I say: now, you are qualified to become LM initiates exactly like the rules are (in fact LM is not a good example, it is so easy to have 50% in 1 lore or RW skill, compared with other cults requirements) .

What do you need differently from the rules ?

the only point I imagine is the "runepool transfer" : in your example, as a orlanth initiate you sacrificed pow for the only LM spell you can learn by the associated cult and get 1 more point in the Orlanth runepool. You may wish to transfer this point from Orlanth runepool to LM runepool once you are initiate. I don't see anything else.

(that  is not a "challenge", just I don't see what is the issue with the rules, and I would like to be prepared if I face it on my table ^^ )

[Joerg]

I don't quite see why rune point pools should be transferable. It is not like you can yank your soul investment away from the greater soul of Orlanth and shove it over to Lhankor Mhy. And why should you?

Tithing, time commitment... sure. But if you can afford to learn to read this late in your life, you have already lived with that extra time and financial commitment for quite a while. Just go on doing that. Maybe lapse a little in your Orlanth duties? That temple gets an additional scribe.

Do you want to learn sorcery? Ok, in that case it is good bye to your commitment to Orlanth. But seriously, starting a seven year commitment for sorcery this late in life? And your trainer in sorcery is likely to tell you that letting go of that theist commitment will help your resolve and advancement.

 

One thing I liked about the Hero Wars/HeroQuest1 subcultitis was that you could anchor your magic on a subcult shared by deities of your pantheon. RQG has reduced that to the one change that is best documented, from Orlanth to Barntar (or vice versa). Few other such subcults with an existece other than a Godtime feat reflected in a runepower (aka rune spell) exist.

 

How many lapsing initiates are there in Glorantha? Initiates failing to provide the necessary time or material commitment to their cult, foregoing the opportunity to regain their runepower should they succeed in casting those spells after failing to identify with their deity that much?

[radmonger]

1 hour ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

What do you need differently from the rules ?

Explicit clarification that in such cases, you do not end up with a split rune pool, because every spell you know can be renewed at a temple of Orlanth. And that consequently, you only pay 10% of time and income, not 20%, because you are only actually attending that single temple.

In particular, it would be nice if the cult write-ups that supported such things could just refer back to the general-case rules for cult association and sub-cult membership. Rather than having to spend much of the write-up spelling out up new cult-specific rules, as is the case with the current Yinkin and Odayla write-ups in RQ:G.

 

 

 

[radmonger]

8 minutes ago, Joerg said:

I don't quite see why rune point pools should be transferable. It is not like you can yank your soul investment away from the greater soul of Orlanth and shove it over to Lhankor Mhy. And why should you?

That logic would imply that magic from every distinct mythical figure needs its own rune pool. So a starting Orlanthi character could have three Rune Pools; one containing only Dark Walk, one containing only Heal Body, and one containing only Bear's Strength. So I am going to assume that logic is wrong, if only based on the available space in the character sheet.

Orlanth, or Orlanthi society, approves of Orlanthi becoming Lawspeakers. It is not like converting from Reform Judaism to Orthodox, and more like becoming a Justice of the Peace[1]. Ideally rules should capture that distinction, lead GMs into running things the right way.

[1] A thing in real-world common-law countries where the lowest level of magistrate or judge is recruited from the general community and given legal training, rather being a lawyer all their life.

[French Desperate WindChild]

3 hours ago, radmonger said:

Explicit clarification that in such cases, you do not end up with a split rune pool, because every spell you know can be renewed at a temple of Orlanth. And that consequently, you only pay 10% of time and income, not 20%, because you are only actually attending that single temple.

oh I understand.

Well , I m more like @Joerg. I dislike (my taste) your option and prefer what the rules are. Yes you were Orlanth, you can maintain Orlanth and join LM  (2 rune pools, 20%) or you can leave Orlanth and join LM (Orlanth RP is lost, 1 LM rune pool, 10%) and it is fine.

You can be a lawspeaker and be only Orlanth initiate. The LM magic/powers is to discover things, not to say what is the law and tradition, that is just lore skills. So yes for me it is fine to have 2 rune pools

[g33k]

3 hours ago, radmonger said:

That logic would imply that magic from every distinct mythical figure needs its own rune pool. So a starting Orlanthi character could have three Rune Pools; one containing only Dark Walk, one containing only Heal Body, and one containing only Bear's Strength. So I am going to assume that logic is wrong, if only based on the available space in the character sheet.

No, Orlanth himself  is  the mythical figure; he provides Dark Walk, Heal Body, & Bear's Strength.

The fact that Orlanth "stole" the Sandals of Darkness doesn't matter -- mythically, they're his now, without any need for Darkness' approval when Orlanthi cast Dark Walk.

Ernalda "gives" Heal Body to Orlanth.  It too is his now; Ernalda need do nothing to support Orlanth-cultists casting these spells.

Neither do these need separate Rune Pools -- they are all Orlanth.

[Akhôrahil]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

The fact that Orlanth "stole" the Sandals of Darkness doesn't matter -- mythically, they're his now, without any need for Darkness' approval when Orlanthi cast Dark Walk.

Agree about this. It's the same thing with ZZ and fire - Yelmalio is no longer involved.

1 hour ago, g33k said:

Ernalda "gives" Heal Body to Orlanth.  It too is his now

This though, I don't agree with. It's Ernalda's spell, provided to Orlanth. Ernalda is involved.

Example: I would argue that Associated Cult spells from Ernalda and Orlanth stop working even for associated cults during the Windstop.

[Joerg]

9 hours ago, radmonger said:

That logic would imply that magic from every distinct mythical figure needs its own rune pool.

I am currently trying to formulate my view of deities as Venn diagrams of myths and runes, groupings of mythical figures/feats/events.

That's where the shared subcults from the Hero Wars/HeroQuest1 approach come into play. If the new deity visits the same mythic event in the same role, then the rune point for that spell is transferable.

Happens more easily in a parent-descendant relationship between deities, might work with siblings. (Genealogies of deities may have more than one true relationship between two entities, Odayla for instance can be the son or the brother of Orlanth.)

The one rune point pool per spell doesn't work out for two- or three-point spells under RQG rules, but this was how my more restrictive rune power model for RQ3 worked.

[Jeff]

Your Rune point pool represents your connection with THAT deity. If you have a big pool, that represents that you are deeply and intimately connected with that deity. If you join another cult - even an associated cult - that Rune pool does not transfer over to the new cult (except in a very few exceptions which are the exceptions that prove the rule). They are different gods with different magical secrets after all.

Normally what people do is worship the other deities associated with their god as associated deities. So an Orlanth initiate also worships Ernalda and has access to Heal Body from her, the other Lightbringers, etc. You can your Orlanth Rune pool for those associated cult activities as well - but that does not give you the full panoply of the associated cult's magic, just the spell it gives your cult. You want to learn Ernalda's deeper mysteries - join her cult!

 

[Jeff]

16 hours ago, David Scott said:

Fortunately Re-Life Sickness isn't part of RQG, and as part of HeroQuest didn't affect everyone.

 

Correct.

[radmonger]

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

You want to learn Ernalda's deeper mysteries - join her cult!

So, you learn many of Ernalda's deeper mysteries, having joining her cult 10 years ago . Then the Lunars kill your children, you swear vengeance, die your hair red, and initiate to Vinga. Both temple wyters and all of the priests approve of your decision, and so do not inflict any penalty. You stay part of the clan, but from now on you go to the Orlanth temple. You spend no more time there than anyone else, and don't pay a double tithe.  Do you then forget all those mysteries? 16 points of Ernalda magic is always going to be more useful than 1 point of Orlanth magic, even in combat, so why did it ever seem to make sense for you to do this?

Surely you now worship Vinga with Ernalda as an associate? By the rules, worshiping at an Orlanth temple with an Ernalda shrine[1] will refill a pure Ernaldan's Rune Pool.  So why would it not work for you?

It is just that you have knowledge of secrets you wouldn't have been abler to learn if you hadn't had the history you did, hadn't birthed and buried a child.  The rule about CHA capping the number of Rune spells you can know organically provides a mechanism by which if you continue to follow this path for more than a few years, you will gradually start to forget what you once knew. 

Or is it that the 'few exceptions' include all cases where there exists a myth or cultural expectation that this is a thing you can do? In other words, Orlanth and Ernalda, all cults closely associated with them like Asrelia, Yinkin and Odayla, cults with direct Lunar equivalents like Humakt and Issaries, and probably every other case where a player character might actually want to change cults for roleplaying reasons? So the baseline rules on changing cults only apply to something essentially no-one[2] in Glorantha ever actually voluntarily[3] does?

[1] are there any in Dragon Pass that don't have such a shrine?

[2] ok, Arkat. But note that when Arkat initiated to Kygor Litor, he did so as a mistress race troll, not a trollkin. 

[3] they do seem like they would work well enough for people captured as slaves and forced into worship. 

 

[Jeff]

2 minutes ago, radmonger said:

So, you learn many of Ernalda's deeper mysteries, having joining her cult 10 years ago . Then the Lunars kill your children, you swear vengeance, die your hair red, and initiate to Vinga. Both temple wyters and all of the priests approve of your decision, and so do not inflict any penalty. You stay part of the clan, but from now on you go to the Orlanth temple. You spend no more time there than anyone else, and don't pay a double tithe.  Do you then forget all those mysteries? 16 points of Ernalda magic is always going to be more useful than 1 point of Orlanth magic, even in combat, so why did it ever seem to make sense for you to do this?

Surely you now worship Vinga with Ernalda as an associate? By the rules, worshiping at an Orlanth temple with an Ernalda shrine[1] will refill a pure Ernaldan's Rune Pool.  So why would it not work for you?

It is just that you have knowledge of secrets you wouldn't have been abler to learn if you hadn't had the history you did, hadn't birthed and buried a child.  The rule about CHA capping the number of Rune spells you can know organically provides a mechanism by which if you continue to follow this path for more than a few years, you will gradually start to forget what you once knew. 

Or is it that the 'few exceptions' include all cases where there exists a myth or cultural expectation that this is a thing you can do? In other words, Orlanth and Ernalda, all cults closely associated with them like Asrelia, Yinkin and Odayla, cults with direct Lunar equivalents like Humakt and Issaries, and probably every other case where a player character might actually want to change cults for roleplaying reasons? So the baseline rules on changing cults only apply to something essentially no-one[2] in Glorantha ever actually voluntarily[3] does?

[1] are there any in Dragon Pass that don't have such a shrine?

[2] ok, Arkat. But note that when Arkat initiated to Kygor Litor, he did so as a mistress race troll, not a trollkin. 

[3] they do seem like they would work well enough for people captured as slaves and forced into worship. 

 

If you had 16 Rune Points to Ernalda, why on earth aren't you an Earth Priestess? That's massive commitment to your cult in any case.

Look, most people have 1-3 Rune points. That's it. So for most people, joining another cult means sacrificing a point of POW and creating a new Rune pool about the same size as your old pool. Maybe you put extra points of POW into that pool because this is such a big deal.

Ernalda is perfectly fine if one of her initiates decides to initiate to Orlanth (or any other associated or friendly cult). But their connection to Ernalda doesn't just transfer over to the new cult - it remains there, and the initiate needs to build up a connection to the other deity.

[French Desperate WindChild]

1 hour ago, radmonger said:

So, you learn many of Ernalda's deeper mysteries, having joining her cult 10 years ago . Then the Lunars kill your children, you swear vengeance, die your hair red, and initiate to Vinga. Both temple wyters and all of the priests approve of your decision, and so do not inflict any penalty. You stay part of the clan, but from now on you go to the Orlanth temple. You spend no more time there than anyone else, and don't pay a double tithe.  Do you then forget all those mysteries? 16 points of Ernalda magic is always going to be more useful than 1 point of Orlanth magic, even in combat, so why did it ever seem to make sense for you to do this?

Surely you now worship Vinga with Ernalda as an associate? By the rules, worshiping at an Orlanth temple with an Ernalda shrine[1] will refill a pure Ernaldan's Rune Pool.  So why would it not work for you?

for me, the point here is what you (the pc) are now

yes you still know all the cult lore you learnt before in the Ernaldan temple

but if you choosed to not be anymore an Ernaldan initiate, it means you broke the channel/gate/link with Ernalda. It means, even if you still worship her from your new Vinga cult, you are not more than an ernaldan lay member. And a lay member is not able to channel the full power of the Goddess, not to be the Goddess. Yes you are able to call your wife to help you, you Orlanth (==> Orlanth's runepool)

Power / runepool / fetch  are not knowledge, they are soul and connection with the others worlds and not mundane entities

How to not break the channel with the goddess and become Vingan ? stay an Ernaldan initiate, ok you have to spend 10% on your time (and money) in the Earth temple, but, because you spend your time in the Eart temple, you do what is necessary to keep the connection, you see the pictures on the walls, you hear the goddess and her spirits minions, you still are impregnated by her.

If I m not wrong, there is no issue of gender here, there is the gender "both", you are Ernalda the woman and you are Orlanth the man (in a vingan body)

 

so that's the point, if you don't want (player) to lose your previous rune pool you have to "lose" 10% of your time and money

there is no background issue here:

your life (character)  may be fully broken, all Ernalda past is over, now you are only Vinga.

Or your life (character) may be injured, you stay in the Ernalda path, but something new grows in you, something violent, not like a violent woman(x-gor) but like a violent man and now you follow the Vinga path

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by French Desperate WindChild

[radmonger]

43 minutes ago, Jeff said:

If you had 16 Rune Points to Ernalda, why on earth aren't you an Earth Priestess? That's massive commitment to your cult in any case.

I think the scenario would apply to a Rune Priestess too; if not more so. They can't dedicate that much of their time to both Ernalda and Vinga. So if it is at all possible for an Ernaldan priestess to become a Vingan, or one of the Gors, then you need something other than the current rules. 

Maybe a High Priest level spell Transfer Cult, following the template for Ban? With the effect of moving the Rune Pool of a willing worshipper to an associated cult temple in an approved way. Spells known that are not regainable at the new temple (generally those from associated cults, as association is not transitive) become one-use.  They can now  learn new spells as normal. Thye don;t need to pay tithes or maintai8n links with the old temple.

That then naturally works for Ernalda/Asrelia/Ty Kora Tek, the Lunars, Hrestoli, and so on[1]. Non-PCs who don't matter[1] don't get that spell cast on them. PCs are provided with an opportunity for roleplaying and conflict . In this particular example, there is clearly goping to some level of opposition, out of reluctance to let a well-liked and much-needed Priestess throwing her life away in vengeance,. But she has the myths on her side...

 

[1] Plus perhaps cases where you move from Orlanthi clan A to clan B thorugh marriage?

[2] and aren't described by the rules, in which it is literally impossible to have 1 or 2 Rune Points[2].

[3] Are there any NPCs in Chaosium supplements with 1 or 2 RPs?

 

 

 

[Jeff]

12 minutes ago, radmonger said:

I think the scenario would apply to a Rune Priestess too; if not more so. They can't dedicate that much of their time to both Ernalda and Vinga. So if it is at all possible for an Ernaldan priestess to become a Vingan, or one of the Gors, then you need something other than the current rules. 

Maybe a High Priest level spell Transfer Cult, following the template for Ban? With the effect of moving the Rune Pool of a willing worshipper to an associated cult temple in an approved way. Spells known that are not regainable at the new temple (generally those from associated cults, as association is not transitive) become one-use.  They can now  learn new spells as normal. Thye don;t need to pay tithes or maintai8n links with the old temple.

That then naturally works for Ernalda/Asrelia/Ty Kora Tek, the Lunars, Hrestoli, and so on[1]. Non-PCs who don't matter[1] don't get that spell cast on them. PCs are provided with an opportunity for roleplaying and conflict . In this particular example, there is clearly goping to some level of opposition, out of reluctance to let a well-liked and much-needed Priestess throwing her life away in vengeance,. But she has the myths on her side...

 

[1] Plus perhaps cases where you move from Orlanthi clan A to clan B thorugh marriage?

[2] and aren't described by the rules, in which it is literally impossible to have 1 or 2 Rune Points[2].

[3] Are there any NPCs in Chaosium supplements with 1 or 2 RPs?

 

 

 

It is possible for a priestess of Ernalda to become an initiate of Vinga, but her Vingan magic is going to start from scratch. Vinga - Air and Movement - is just not the same as Earth, Harmony, and Life. Just because our priestess of Ernalda knows the deepest magical secrets of the Earth Mother doesn't mean she gets an edge up with the secrets of the Moving Storm. 

For players my advice is - if you plan to specialise and spend lots of POW to gain Rune Points in one cult, don't expect to be able to do the same in another cult. Unless you plan to risk yourself and others by heroquesting upon unknown paths and transform yourself.

If I am writing up an NPC that my players are going to interact with in some manner that requires them being written up (so as warriors, experienced crafters, and so on) I usually give them 3 points. But folk that have no Rune magic that is likely to interact in any way with the adventurers, I give 0 (see typical city residents). When you join a cult, you spend 1 POW and get 1 Rune point in that cult. See the core rules page 275.

[radmonger]

39 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

f I m not wrong, there is no issue of gender here, there is the gender "both", you are Ernalda the woman and you are Orlanth the man (in a vingan body)

I don't think that is right; Orlanthi society, per RQ:G, has 4 sexes and 6 genders. With the genders being orlanthi, ernaldan, vingan, nandan, helering and other. One of the sexes (mythically rere) is 'both', but you can't have two genders.

I would take that to mean being an initiate of both Ernalda and Vinga is going to be strictly taboo. Helerings may switch routinely, but they can't be both at the same time.

[JRE]

That is what God talkers are, people with a strong link to the deity, but outside the official hierarchy of the temple. I can see an Ernaldan priestess on a path of vengeance, but that she knows is temporary, switching to God-talker, and initiating in Vinga. Her comrades will appreciate Ernalda's support while she can join as one of  the clan warriors. When she decides she is finished, she can return to her past life, and lapse in Vinga, so her single runepoint becomes one use. 

However, in the case of an Ernalda priestess, if her commitment to vengeance is not temporary, I would allow her to turn to the Blasted earth, or to the Avenger. In my Glorantha there are ceremonies when an Ernaldan turns to Maran Gor, as there are others to turn to Ty Kora Tek, or Asrelia. In that case you can switch your rune pool, because it is both a personal and a mythical change. I am unsure about Babeester Gor, as her overlap with Ernalda is much less, but I could be convinced, if the character is already a warrior.

That can be frightening, both for the community and the enemies, when a Runepool devoted to fertility suddenly turns to death, bringing earthquakes and dinosaur stampedes on their enemies. 

As for gender, my understanding is that besides Vingan (gender), other genders can initiate in Vinga, as other genders, can initiate in Orlanth. Vingan as a gender is a female that is socially male, and in an orlanthi clan they will usually worship Vinga, but many Vingans (cult) will still be socially female, so no need to change your gender.