Araslithos

[Erol of Backford]

Araslithos was born after a two year pregnancy speaking wisdom and prophecy. Was Araslithos the Sage a male or female? When did they live?

Are any of the Towjang children male and if so what do they do with them? What happens if a Towjangian decides to be chaste/celibate and remain a virgin, do they become an outcast?

Where would a Towjang sage go to study if they would do that, somewhere in Kralorela perhaps?

I see hundreds of references to Toldat and read a good many but who are they and is there a cult write up of them? Any sources are appreciated!

[Joerg]

If Araslithos is an important figure in Marazi culture, she has to be female.

 

Tolat is one of those controversial cults.

He is the god of the Red Planet, as is Shargash, and they share  the same runes. They are going to share the entry in the upcoming cults collection.

There was a previous attempt at writing the cult of Shargash, in Enclosure #1.

Tolat's mythology is found to some extent in the Teshnos chapter of the Guide. The Marazi and the (descendants of the) Zaranistangi worship the Red Planet under this name, and so did the Artmali. Gebel and the Fonritian rebels are searchig for the Red Sword of Tolat.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Joerg

[metcalph]

4 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Araslithos was born after a two year pregnancy speaking wisdom and prophecy. Was Araslithos the Sage a male or female? When did they live?

Araslithos would have been born on Towjang.  The Guide states they have always lived there but Trowjang as a country becomes significant only after the Closing (It's first labelled circa 1450 ST, not even appearing in the 1220 ST map).  It's noteworthy that the Island was part of the Middle Sea Empire but nobody in our sources (Middle Sea Empire) has a word to say about them.  My guess is that the Amazons took a turn for the worse after the Goddess Switch and when the Closing struck, started killing the Men.  

Araslithos would have been born in the period between 1220-1450 ST and contributed a kind of civilizing influence upon the Amazons.  That way the Amazonian population grew and they became significant enough for the mapmakers to take note off.

 

4 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Are any of the Towjang children male and if so what do they do with them?

Slavery has been mentioned.  A nicer solution is that in their raids, they take the newborn males with them and exchange them for unwanted females.

4 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

What happens if a Towjangian decides to be chaste/celibate and remain a virgin, do they become an outcast?

The Amazonians are chaste with Tolat.  The literature is silent on what happens with non-worshipping women but they can be tolerated.

4 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Where would a Towjang sage go to study if they would do that, somewhere in Kralorela perhaps?

They don't need to study elsewhere.  They can sit at home, read the inscriptions on the ancient temple ruins and make sense of them through their divine parentage.

4 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I see hundreds of references to Toldat and read a good many but who are they and is there a cult write up of them? Any sources are appreciated!

The oldest reference to them in the Genertela Boxed set had them as a mixture of the cults of Uleria and Humakt.  Which means it was a Humakti war cult with an APPx5 test to become an initiate and an APPx1 test to become a Rune Lord with a couple of Ulerian runespells thrown in.  The Cult of Shargash in the Cults Book to Come from what few tidbits have been made does not follow this.

The Glorantha Sourcebook mentions a Goddess called Teshana who abandoned her husband (Somash the Sun God) and took up with Tolat.  So I think the Amazons might be an earth fighting cult (a fusion between Babeester God and High King Elf) with Tolat being an associate cult.  

[Eff]

7 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Araslithos was born after a two year pregnancy speaking wisdom and prophecy. Was Araslithos the Sage a male or female? When did they live?

Are any of the Towjang children male and if so what do they do with them? What happens if a Towjangian decides to be chaste/celibate and remain a virgin, do they become an outcast?

Where would a Towjang sage go to study if they would do that, somewhere in Kralorela perhaps?

I see hundreds of references to Toldat and read a good many but who are they and is there a cult write up of them? Any sources are appreciated!

I think that given that the Marazi have pregnancies that are very different from the human norm (2 weeks to 2 years in length!) and gain them from a god who famously has phallic symbols "he" keeps giving away or losing or having to share with others, there's no reason at all to assume that anyone born to them would develop into a man by adulthood a priori. 

I would also assume that Tolat isn't a divine rapist and the Marazi aren't his facilitators, for my own sake, so I think participation in sexual contact is entirely voluntary. 

Trowjang supposedly is at constant war with everyone apart from the hsunchen and aldryami around them, but the material in the Guide is a bit confused- the Marazi have one settlement with a thousand residents and 120,000 total people but apparently build warships and manufacture crossbows from their many small villages. But if you carry this motif forward, that suggests Marazi scholars are likely to be found in Kethaela and the East Isles, further afield from the mainland and Melib. 

Tolat is the god of the red planet in the sky, a sibling of the Blue Moon and was a close ally of her son Artmal. He's firmly identified with Shargash by Chaosium. My model for him, as a god of sexuality and violence in alignment, is probably similar to a masculine (or femboy) version of Ishtar/Inanna or akin to Karttikeya or some interpretations of Shiva (Mahakala and Ardhahanari are probably fun ones to use). 

Edited July 28, 2022 by Eff

[Erol of Backford]

So, I have Enclosure #1...

Are these Amazons semi divine in any way, like (hate to say it) Wonder Woman? I mean like was Linda Carter at some of the conventions back in the day... Kidding aside would they be taller, stronger, faster. Do they live longer?

And wouldn't there also be a shrine to Tolat/Shargash at any Elmal/Yemalio/Lightfore temple as were they not brothers/half brothers?

[metcalph]

1 minute ago, Erol of Backford said:

Are these Amazons semi divine in any way, like (hate to say it) Wonder Woman? I mean like was Linda Carter at some of the conventions back in the day... Kidding aside would they be taller, stronger, faster. Do they live longer?

Nobody knows.  Foreign women who become accepted aren't otherwise noted as inferior.

1 minute ago, Erol of Backford said:

And wouldn't there also be a shrine to Tolat/Shargash at any Elmal/Yemalio/Lightfore temple as were they not brothers/half brothers?

Probably not Elmal as he left his old people behind for the Lightbringers.

Shargash would be honored at Sun Dome Temples in Peloria, mainly in a propitiatory role rather than as a source of Rune Magic.

He's to distant to be known in Sun County, I'd think.  Maybe Hector has heard of him but that's about it.

[Eff]

16 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

So, I have Enclosure #1...

Are these Amazons semi divine in any way, like (hate to say it) Wonder Woman? I mean like was Linda Carter at some of the conventions back in the day... Kidding aside would they be taller, stronger, faster. Do they live longer?

And wouldn't there also be a shrine to Tolat/Shargash at any Elmal/Yemalio/Lightfore temple as were they not brothers/half brothers?

I think Tolat and Shargash, known for indulging of impulses and desires, probably aren't worshiped directly in Little Sun cults but are certainly present in some form as an obstacle or possibly via a monster associated with them. 

[Erol of Backford]

I agree with you both but was trying to figure out how a PC Amazon would regain any spells in say Amber Fields, Heortland and or Notchet...

[Erol of Backford]

Not related but in Enclosure Issue 1 it says Kallyr kills Gunda and Harrek kills Kallyr but that is 1997. I had not seen that before even I had the zine for over 20 years...

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

I agree with you both but was trying to figure out how a PC Amazon would regain any spells in say Amber Fields, Heortland and or Notchet...

Tolat/Shargash (aka Jagrekriand if you look at the HQ work SKoH) is an Enemy god to the Orlanth pantheon. His planet is the sign of War, Destruction, and Doom.  He brought down Umath.  He fought Orlanth and his kin repeatedly.  He was one of the leaders of the Solar pantheon (ancient DH) in the fight against the upland storm-worshipping barbarians.

You would not expect to find him in any temple in Heortland, Esrolia, Sartar, or the Amber Fields.  In Nochet, the only place you're likely to find him included is one of the Fire temples in the Kalava district brought by immigrants from Melib/Teshnos.  Probably an obscure corner shrine.  

But why would an Amazon from Trowjang expect to find a temple beyond her lands?  Likely she even considers the folk of Melib/Teshnos as fallen or degenerate, let alone distant barbarians.  And this would be no different for an Orlanth worshipper in Glamour.  If you are traveling to far distant lands, you'd likely load up on Rune Points/Rune Magic as part of your preparations for departure figuring you'll need it (but also protect it for emergencies), and that your POW will likely go up again as adventures occur.

[metcalph]

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Not related but in Enclosure Issue 1 it says Kallyr kills Gunda and Harrek kills Kallyr but that is 1997. I had not seen that before even I had the zine for over 20 years...

It's from Argrath's Saga in King of Sartar (1st Edition).

[metcalph]

15 hours ago, Eff said:

Trowjang supposedly is at constant war with everyone apart from the hsunchen and aldryami around them, but the material in the Guide is a bit confused- the Marazi have one settlement with a thousand residents and 120,000 total people but apparently build warships and manufacture crossbows from their many small villages.

It doesn't say they build warships and manufacture crossbows.  They make hardwood charms.  They are more likely to have acquired the warships and crossbows from raiding neighbouring countries.  

[Erol of Backford]

3 hours ago, jajagappa said:

But why would an Amazon from Trowjang expect to find a temple beyond her lands?  Likely she even considers the folk of Melib/Teshnos as fallen or degenerate, let alone distant barbarians.  And this would be no different for an Orlanth worshipper in Glamour.  If you are traveling to far distant lands, you'd likely load up on Rune Points/Rune Magic as part of your preparations for departure figuring you'll need it (but also protect it for emergencies), and that your POW will likely go up again as adventures occur.

Maybe she takes a red holy sword with her and it is the holy spot to get rune magic back? Where could she get one of those...

[Joerg]

5 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I agree with you both but was trying to figure out how a PC Amazon would regain any spells in say Amber Fields, Heortland and or Notchet...

She is unlikely to find a shrine to Jagrekriand, the enemy of Umath and Orlanth, but there are a couple of places where this enemy's magic is strong. There are the archer pillars at the Aurochs Hills where supernatural entities got involved in the battle of Iceland, and there is Arrowmound, a place where Orlanth and Jagrekriand battled.

Nochet may have enough Melibians for a shrine to Tolat in their corner of the city. The question is whether they would accept one of the terror women into their place of worship. How welcome would Wolf Pirates be at a Dormal temple? The Marazi are best known in the region for their piracy.

Yelmite temples that have a Shargash shrine are few and far apart in the region, too.

One of her best bets might be a Praxian spirit society including "Bronze Treasure" as one of their sprits. A Marazi may have no problem to be lumped in with Lunar spirits.

The Men-and-a-Half might claim that the Red Planet belongs to their ancestral Lodril. No idea whether that would be helpful for your amazon.

 

[Erol of Backford]

23 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The Men-and-a-Half might claim that the Red Planet belongs to their ancestral Lodril.

Not unless she could regain rune magic at the Lodri temples? But Yelmalio is Toldat's half brother and the Sun Domers are not really an ally of Orlanth?

[Darius West]

33 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Not unless she could regain rune magic at the Lodri temples? But Yelmalio is Toldat's half brother and the Sun Domers are not really an ally of Orlanth?

Incorrect apparently.  I am reliably informed that Elmal is the same as Yelmalio these days and therefore is Orlanth's ally, horse master and loyal thane.  But don't take my word for it.  In fact don't take anyone's word for it, I agree with you Erol.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Darius West

[Darius West]

6 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Not related but in Enclosure Issue 1 it says Kallyr kills Gunda and Harrek kills Kallyr but that is 1997. I had not seen that before even I had the zine for over 20 years...

Yeah, I doubt that is true.  I am 99% sure that Gunda makes it to the Hero Wars proper as I have seen her in the board-game.  Then again, you know heroes, they get comic-book style "come back from death" skill.  It is literally in the rules.

[Joerg]

3 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Not unless she could regain rune magic at the Lodri temples?

Few of those outside of Caladraland. But there are Temples to All Deities that such visitors may use for their own Sanctify routines - that's theolution offered by the RQG publications.

 

3 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

But Yelmalio is Toldat's half brother and the Sun Domers are not really an ally of Orlanth?

The Sun Domers of Vanntar have their ancestors in Heortland, far away from any Shargash influence. Their hero Monrogh brought them the Sunspear by acknowledging Yelm as big daddy, but that happened less than eighty years ago, and they don't show any evidence of having imported say Buserian (another planetary son of Yelm, as per Gods Wall) to deal with their bureaucracy, or Lodril for their plowing.

The Sun Domers in Prax seem to have absorbed some of the Teshnan settlers that occupied the Zola Fel estuary around the time of Alavan Argay, and may have adopted a little of the Teshnan fire cult associations. These settlers came in search of the Red Sword, so they might have brought some Tolat to the Zola Fel valley Sun Dome temple. Whether that still persists and resulted in a shrine at the Sun Dome there I don't know. There is no indication that Selenteen (the leader of that expedition and colony) made it into Kethaela, let alone through Dragon Pass (where the Inhuman Occupation just had ended by the adoption of the survivors of the Pure Horse Folk of Prax as the Grazelanders) on his attempt to pick up the trail of Avalor, the last known holder of the Red Sword of Melib. The whereabouts of this hero are unknown.

Where Yelmalio is identified with Reladivus Kargzant, the southern planetary god might even be considered a full sibling, but the Cold Light resulting from the dismemberment of Yelm doesn't really have siblings.

Tolat is pretty much unknown to Lunars or Dara Happans, who are used to deal with Shargash (and Jagrekriand). The Westerners know Tolat as an enemy deity, too, associated with the Loper People, a foe very much demonized in the re-telling, but then they used his cult to conquer (or claim tribute) all of Teshnos as the Duchy of Eest.

Their domain over the Amazons might simply have been one of presenting the fact that their temple on Melib held the Red Sword, which wouldn't budge (until Avalor made it budge), proof that their presence was the wish of Tolat, and the Marazi may have acknowledged that and sent tribute. There might have been God Learner expeditions into Trowjang, with the male leaders wearing fake slave collars while female students of heroquesting (if those were all that common) would provide the face of that expedition (and possibly lose their male superiors by accident, or going native).

IMG Trowjang is that shard of the sky which fell down during the fight against the Sky Terror, with the daughters of the Sun who were abandoned by their brothers/husbands, or at least a part of that shard. The one that caused the big tsunami in Godtime. Thus their Tolat may be different from the Tolat brought by the Zaranistangi, possibly closer to Jagrekriand of Orlanthi myth.

[JRE]

Either she makes a short trip or she will miss the highest holiest day, as well as the night of uxorial pleasure. I would consider she has lapsed as an initiate till she gets back to Trowjang. Their religion seems to be so tightly linked with their status as god wives that it is not only a problem of finding an analogue, but finding an analogue willing to take her as wife, and that will be even more difficult.

Priests usually can make do with sanctify and worship deity, so they can self-sustain away from their communities, but initiates need the guidance and support of the priesthood, so unless they have an illuminated moment and recognize Tolat in Shargash, they will have to accept they are now separate from their husband, and either return home or find an alternate deity to follow in the outer world. Besides the many deities, I expect there are thousands of small spirit cults in Nochet, derivatives or weird associates of the mainstream cults, but as said above her best bet is Tolat as seen by the Melib inmigrants, which probably is close enough to her needs, and she might get a Teshnos Tolat priest to god form into Tolat and see what happens...

[Manunancy]

I'd think an amazon would be likely to have some troubles being allowed to worship at a Sun Dome Temple - they're all leaning toward patriarchy and distrust of foreigners (some more tha nothers).

[M Helsdon]

7 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

But Yelmalio is Toldat's half brother and the Sun Domers are not really an ally of Orlanth?

The attitude of Yelmalions vary from place to place; in some places the Little Sun is an enemy of Orlanth, others a rival, and others an ally.

Shargash's cult is found in Peloria and parts of Saird, and Tolat's in Melib and Trowjang, but seems rare elsewhere. In the Holy Country he might have a shrine in some temples of Lodril.

[metcalph]

Rather than Yelmalio, the Amazon could try worshipping at a Yelorna Temple.  The mythology's undeveloped and the local worshippers are going to be somewhat tolerant.  There's two places they could worship at - the Temple in the Rubble and among the Unicorn Women.

[Eff]

15 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I agree with you both but was trying to figure out how a PC Amazon would regain any spells in say Amber Fields, Heortland and or Notchet...

Oh no, I mean (but forgot to elaborate) that they could probably participate in Little Sun worship ceremonies so long as they're willing to job a bit. Or find someone a bit more associated. Babeester Gor might not be the worst one, one thing that Shargash/Tolat seems to be is a respecter of women/protector of the earth. 

[Erol of Backford]

So this PC is to be a daughter of Araslithos who doesn't age IMG. The daughter isn't into the idea of being impregnated by Tolat, at least not yet and wants to investigate the Unicorn Riders? She'll want to check out the Pavis Rubble but also Arrowmound and the archer pillars in Aurochs Hills (Can anyone spot the hills for me, I cannot locate?)

I like that there may be a shrine to Shargash/Tolat in Caladraland at a Lodri/Caladra & Aurelian temple, maybe a hidden one in Nochet. Maybe she will have one built/added?

What are the archer pillars at the Aurochs Hills? Is there a reference for them and these Jagrekriand - Umath & Orlanth battles? What about the battle of Iceland?

Where would Melibians live in Nochet? 

[Erol of Backford]

Kallyr gets trapped in her heroquest, and the players (in theory free) her at the Battle of Iceland. Those that fought are the New Breathers and have freed their own personal Orlanth.

When is this battle and the others?