Trading with Dragonewts

[Squaredeal Sten]

In a sub-episode in The Seven Tailed Wolf, there is a reference to trade with the Dragonewts.  Around Tink as I recall. But not exclusively there.

What would Dragonewts have that humans want?

What would humans have that Dragonewts want?

I'm thinking that dragonewts don't wear clothes so won't want cloth.  They use obsidian blades so won't have as much use for bronze as the other intelligent races do.  

They hunt and eat, so food is OK.  

Their motivations are hard fior people to understand.  So ?? What can you imagine they will trade for?

Now what do they have that humans want?  Obsidian makes very sharp knapped blades, but they also have the disadvantages of other knapped blades in accord with W&E.   

Magic?  The dracgon magic in the Bestiary doesn't refer to enchantment but they do enchant, shown by the Dragonewt roads.  What  would they produce?

 

 

[Joerg]

I seem to recall a gourmet tailed priest dragonewt eager to test various made-for-humans foods.

IMG warrior dragonewts would be rather reluctant to test out their appetites lest they get reborn as dinosaurs, but it seems that once the evolutionary jump to tailed priest has been achieved, all those lesser cravings or curiosity may be satiated without (much) detriment to their development. Thus tailed and winged priests might well be interested in ostentation objects, the winged ones possibly as meditation focus (or meditation temptations).

What the dragonewts have to trade (or reciprocally gift) away would be dragonewt magics, sung dragonbone, obsidian/jade/flint knapped in their specific (left-handed?) ways, and possibly dinosaurs.

 

[Jeff]

There are few places where dragonewts trade with humans. One of those places is Trade Think Market near The Dragon's Eye.

Trade Think Market

Trade Think Market is one of the few places where humans may trade with dragonewts in safety. The Vanstach Clan of the Dinacoli claim monopoly, and trade foodstuffs to the dragonewts, especially black-eyed peas and beef from red cattle. The dragonewts do not seem to care about the Vanstachi claims and trade with any humans here.

[Darius West]

11 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

In a sub-episode in The Seven Tailed Wolf, there is a reference to trade with the Dragonewts.  Around Tink as I recall. But not exclusively there.

What would Dragonewts have that humans want?

What would humans have that Dragonewts want?

I'm thinking that dragonewts don't wear clothes so won't want cloth.  They use obsidian blades so won't have as much use for bronze as the other intelligent races do.  

They hunt and eat, so food is OK.  

Their motivations are hard fior people to understand.  So ?? What can you imagine they will trade for?

Now what do they have that humans want?  Obsidian makes very sharp knapped blades, but they also have the disadvantages of other knapped blades in accord with W&E.   

Magic?  The dracgon magic in the Bestiary doesn't refer to enchantment but they do enchant, shown by the Dragonewt roads.  What  would they produce?

You are making some interesting assumptions here Sten, and that's fine, but much will depend on your GM and their interpretation of dragonewts I suspect.  For my money I would bring a few things to your attention.

1) Many dragonewts are kind of incompetent.  You say they hunt and eat food, but there are those who are too dumb to have figured out the necessity of eating to stay alive (or don't like how it feels), and so they are born and run around for a while, then run out of energy and die of starvation, believing this to be normal as it is what they have done a thousands times before, and then they go back to their egg, having failed for the umpteenth time to progress on the Path.  Remember that all the competent dragonewts have already become dragons, and the present remainder are the "bottom of the class".

2)It is perhaps a good idea to think of the dragonewts as a large monastic community (or perhaps a big "funny farm").  There is literally only 1 breeding individual in the entire society as far as humans know, and this breeding involves the production of eggs.  Are they eggs as we understand them though?  Likely not.  

The dragon path doesn't emphasize technology, but internal development.  They use obsidian and dragon bone because this is what they know, and what they have, not because it is the only thing they use.  Dragonewts are not Amish, they just don't have a part of their path that involves bronze working, but the EWF definitely had bronze weapons and armor.  Dragonewts are mistrustful of things they don't know or understand, like bronze, but the good will of the trader who is prepared to take the time to show them the value of such things may go a long way to securing a sale.

3)  You suggest that dragonewts have no use for cloth, but there is an exception; Bags, in fact containers of all kinds.  Off topic for a moment, consider, given its odd dragonewt rune configuration, it is possible that wheelbarrows may actually be a dragonewt invention adopted by humans.   The thing about dragonewt bodies is that they don't come with pockets, and increased carrying capacity is something they will rapidly adopt when taught.  In fact items like pots, pans, blankets, scissors, lamps, tinderboxes, needles, thread, hammers etc. will be demanded if the trader is able to explain their use to the dragonewts.  The dragonewts will likely completely misinterpret the lesson of course, but these are a people who make 3 wheeled carts because they can't get their heads around the use of a 4th wheel.  Of course this monastic community may see these tools as unreliable fripperies from Path ignorant humans, but that isn't necessarily the case, as items that help you live will be important in those early stages of Path development.  Even dragonewts need to meet those crucial Maslow's Pyramid needs to progress on the Path, they are often just too dumb to see it, but they reincarnate.

4) Everyone thinks that dragonewts are these amazing mystical beings with weird magic, and they are, but they are also often highly stupid and impractical, as they literally don't care if they live or die.  They CAN enchant things, but humans who haven't had the brain splitting operation cannot understand or use their magic, and when humans have that operation they often find that their right hand no longer knows what their left hand is doing in a literal sense, due to the splitting of the right and left hemispheres of the brain IRL.  This is a minor taste of what life as a dragonewt is like; consider it.

5) Different dragonewt communities are likely to trade in different ways.  Obviously the Dragon's Eye uses Tink (Trade Think village), and there will be official human language experts there to do the trading on behalf of DE City and the Inhuman King (Queen?  Egg laying?).   Trade is often likely to be less formal if possible at all when you encounter parties of dragonewts.  After all, do they even understand what trade is yet?  It is likely that each dragonewt city has some idea of how to trade in place, but the whos, whats, whys, and wherefores are going to be at issue.  Will they place high importance on trade and have a senior caste dragonewt who is intelligent involved, or will they leave matters in the hand of a crested dragonewt because such materialism is unimportant? 

6) Don't make the dragonewts a complete pack on nonces.  They do understand coinage as it is part of the lessons of the Humans 101 meditation course.  They know that acquisition of resources is something desirable, and so they will seek to acquire coin, but may not really fully grasp the concept of spending, hence the legendary greed of Dream Dragons.

Trading with dragonewts should be a bizarre WTF roleplaying experience, where unexpected things occur and meaning is somehow lost in translation.  The Buddhists have a saying "The master points to the full moon, but the student sees only the pointing finger", or, you buy a cat a scratching and climbing castle, but they only want to sit in the box it came in.  My advice?  Bring feathers.  Dragonewts seem to really love feathers, especially colored ones, even if they are just dyed.

 

[Shiningbrow]

43 minutes ago, Darius West said:

You are making some interesting assumptions here Sten, and that's fine, but much will depend on your GM and their interpretation of dragonewts I suspect.  For my money I would bring a few things to your attention.

1) Many dragonewts are kind of incompetent.  You say they hunt and eat food, but there are those who are too dumb to have figured out the necessity of eating to stay alive (or don't like how it feels), and so they are born and run around for a while, then run out of energy and die of starvation, believing this to be normal as it is what they have done a thousands times before, and then they go back to their egg, having failed for the umpteenth time to progress on the Path.  Remember that all the competent dragonewts have already become dragons, and the present remainder are the "bottom of the class".

2)It is perhaps a good idea to think of the dragonewts as a large monastic community (or perhaps a big "funny farm").  There is literally only 1 breeding individual in the entire society as far as humans know, and this breeding involves the production of eggs.  Are they eggs as we understand them though?  Likely not.  

The dragon path doesn't emphasize technology, but internal development.  They use obsidian and dragon bone because this is what they know, and what they have, not because it is the only thing they use.  Dragonewts are not Amish, they just don't have a part of their path that involves bronze working, but the EWF definitely had bronze weapons and armor.  Dragonewts are mistrustful of things they don't know or understand, like bronze, but the good will of the trader who is prepared to take the time to show them the value of such things may go a long way to securing a sale.

3)  You suggest that dragonewts have no use for cloth, but there is an exception; Bags, in fact containers of all kinds.  Off topic for a moment, consider, given its odd dragonewt rune configuration, it is possible that wheelbarrows may actually be a dragonewt invention adopted by humans.   The thing about dragonewt bodies is that they don't come with pockets, and increased carrying capacity is something they will rapidly adopt when taught.  In fact items like pots, pans, blankets, scissors, lamps, tinderboxes, needles, thread, hammers etc. will be demanded if the trader is able to explain their use to the dragonewts.  The dragonewts will likely completely misinterpret the lesson of course, but these are a people who make 3 wheeled carts because they can't get their heads around the use of a 4th wheel.  Of course this monastic community may see these tools as unreliable fripperies from Path ignorant humans, but that isn't necessarily the case, as items that help you live will be important in those early stages of Path development.  Even dragonewts need to meet those crucial Maslow's Pyramid needs to progress on the Path, they are often just too dumb to see it, but they reincarnate.

4) Everyone thinks that dragonewts are these amazing mystical beings with weird magic, and they are, but they are also often highly stupid and impractical, as they literally don't care if they live or die.  They CAN enchant things, but humans who haven't had the brain splitting operation cannot understand or use their magic, and when humans have that operation they often find that their right hand no longer knows what their left hand is doing in a literal sense, due to the splitting of the right and left hemispheres of the brain IRL.  This is a minor taste of what life as a dragonewt is like; consider it.

5) Different dragonewt communities are likely to trade in different ways.  Obviously the Dragon's Eye uses Tink (Trade Think village), and there will be official human language experts there to do the trading on behalf of DE City and the Inhuman King (Queen?  Egg laying?).   Trade is often likely to be less formal if possible at all when you encounter parties of dragonewts.  After all, do they even understand what trade is yet?  It is likely that each dragonewt city has some idea of how to trade in place, but the whos, whats, whys, and wherefores are going to be at issue.  Will they place high importance on trade and have a senior caste dragonewt who is intelligent involved, or will they leave matters in the hand of a crested dragonewt because such materialism is unimportant? 

6) Don't make the dragonewts a complete pack on nonces.  They do understand coinage as it is part of the lessons of the Humans 101 meditation course.  They know that acquisition of resources is something desirable, and so they will seek to acquire coin, but may not really fully grasp the concept of spending, hence the legendary greed of Dream Dragons.

Trading with dragonewts should be a bizarre WTF roleplaying experience, where unexpected things occur and meaning is somehow lost in translation.  The Buddhists have a saying "The master points to the full moon, but the student sees only the pointing finger", or, you buy a cat a scratching and climbing castle, but they only want to sit in the box it came in.  My advice?  Bring feathers.  Dragonewts seem to really love feathers, especially colored ones, even if they are just dyed.

 

Just adding to that - Dragonewts concept of 'value' will be completely different to those of other races. Probably slightly exaggerated, but I could see a dragonewt trading away 20kg of raw iron for a handful of pretty feathers.

[Darius West]

6 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Just adding to that - Dragonewts concept of 'value' will be completely different to those of other races. Probably slightly exaggerated, but I could see a dragonewt trading away 20kg of raw iron for a handful of pretty feathers.

This is quite fair, but it would be a lot more likely if you find a rando hunting band where the dumb-dumbs don't understand the value of things, not somewhere like Tink.  It certainly isn't the sort of deal that you can expect to duplicate time after time, more of a 1-off "crit" imo.

[Rick Meints]

Dragonewts were not designed to be understood or predictable. Their actions are supposed to be incomprehensible to humans. Thus, trying to come up with a system that is understandable isn't possible. That may not make playing them easy, but that's pretty much as intended.

Dragonewts are supposed to shock, surprise and befuddle humans. If I had to characterize how they would be when trading with them, it would be "totally boring or totally absurd". They might trade the 20 cattle they have for a brown leather shoe. They might ask for your Index finger. You could have a bird in a cage that chirps sweet music and they would buy and eat it, and then at sunset ask you to give back the seven obsidian knives they traded for it. They might follow you home, meet your wife, and then shave her head during dinner. Her hair would then grow back in the most magnificent shade of red, and she then gives birth to twins next season. That's how they roll, and the reasons behind it aren't supposed to make sense to us. Hell, they may not make sense to them either. Maybe they just love being different.

[whitelaughter]

Surely magic is high on the list of things to trade?

 

If they want to develop, then Enhance Int and Charisma speed learning. If they want *sensation*, then being hit with Befuddle, Demoralise etc would be tempting

[JRE]

The problem with dragonewts is that you can only trade things that you know the other side has, and I doubt most dragonewts really understand human magic of any kind, so they might like it if they knew it existrd, but that will not be easily transmitted. The second part is agreeing in compensation, and that will be also a problem.

However it could be fun that after a character uses Demoralize or Befuddle on a dragonewt, the dragonewt starts following them, even if killed, which is one of the beauties of dragonewts for GMs, hoping to experience that again. If no spell comes in a while, maybe even mock attacking them, or even really attacking 

[Joerg]

33 minutes ago, JRE said:

The problem with dragonewts is that you can only trade things that you know the other side has, and I doubt most dragonewts really understand human magic of any kind, so they might like it if they knew it existrd, but that will not be easily transmitted. The second part is agreeing in compensation, and that will be also a problem.

This could resemble the way the Varangians traded along the rivers with the horse nomads they encountered - leaving a trade offering on a site designated to that task (Tradethink Market) and waiting for a counteroffer, upon which the traders leaving the first offering would allocate some of the offer to match the counteroffer.

How to do that with magics is a bit more complicated, but communication isn't as limited, either.

 

33 minutes ago, JRE said:

However it could be fun that after a character uses Demoralize or Befuddle on a dragonewt, the dragonewt starts following them, even if killed, which is one of the beauties of dragonewts for GMs, hoping to experience that again. If no spell comes in a while, maybe even mock attacking them, or even really attacking 

Or some Lunar or Darkness rune magic... Psychedelic spell-casting?

[Ali the Helering]

I don't think you should ever play them as dumb, but different.  They may not have the same values as you, but that is part of why they are beyond human understanding.

In the case of the iron-feathers trade suggested, my question would be "What do they need the feathers FOR?" accompanied by ominous eyebrow waggling.

[Shiningbrow]

I have no doubt that any respectable dragonewt would trade almost anything for a shrubbery! (a nice one, of course... but not too big)