Cult write ups for Hippoi, Redaylda or King Griffin

[Godlearner]

I am looking for any cult write ups for Hippoi, Redaylda or King Griffin cults.  I seen some mention of them in various places, but nothing concrete.

[AndrewTBP]

Redalda gets mentioned a bit in Sartar Companion but there’s no cult write up. She’s a Daughter of Ernalda so there’s probably a shrine in Ernalda temples outside the Runegate area. There’s a temple and High Priestess at Horse Town, she’s an Enhyli clanswoman. 

[Qizilbashwoman]

43 minutes ago, AndrewTBP said:

Redalda gets mentioned a bit in Sartar Companion but there’s no cult write up. She’s a Daughter of Ernalda so there’s probably a shrine in Ernalda temples outside the Runegate area. There’s a temple and High Priestess at Horse Town, she’s an Enhyli clanswoman. 

She's a daughter of the Sons of Vingkot, her lineage is Orlanth proper

[AndrewTBP]

There’s a keyword write up in Storm Tribe p.228 too. 

[Joerg]

I don't think that there is much of a human cult of King Griffon. What there is probably is a subcult of Yelm.

Hippoi is part of the Hyalor/Hippogriff package, big in the Grazelands (Arandayla, IIRC). "Horse-Eiritha" with quite different  parentage and trauma. Not buried under hills, but torn, twisted and finally broken, the latter as an act of mercy as much as establishing the horse on the ground.

Redaylde Winter is the youngest daughter of Vingkot, otherwise rather similar to her older half-sister Orgorvale Winter, who copied her marrying a horse rider (Redaylde - Beren and Orgorvale - Ulanin). With more focus on red hair and loving ponies, though. What-if-Vinga-married-Elmal...

[David Scott]

15 hours ago, Godlearner said:

I am looking for any cult write ups for Hippoi, Redaylda or King Griffin cults.  I seen some mention of them in various places, but nothing concrete.

Hippoi is the title of the horse goddess, so the title of Arandayla, Gamara, or Redaylda. So Hippoi has no real cult, but is an associate god of Ernalda giving Speak with Horses.

Assuming you mean Redaylda in her role of Horse goddess, not as the goddess of Saird. She's worshiped through her husband, either Hyalor Horsebreaker or his son, Beren the Rider. In Peloria and amongst the Grazelanders, Hyalor is an associate of Ernalda and gives Command Horse.

If you want to read about Redaylda in Saird, see here, and Hyalor here.

So you can assume that those two associate cults are in most places where horses are used in some form and together give Speak with Horses and Command Horse. Most of this is covered in the upcoming Cults of Glorantha. 

King Griffin is the father of Hippoi and grandfather of horses and hippogriffs (see https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/the-taxonomy-of-animals/). Given that he is the brother of Vrimak, and Vrimak gives Speak with Birds as an associate of Yelm, it wouldn't be unreasonable to give King Griffin speak with horses, and/or Hippogriffs. As for cult, likely none.

[Brian Duguid]

It's perhaps only peripherally relevant but another "form" or cousin of Hippoi is Galana, the female sun horse deity considered by the Galanini people in Ralios to be their ancestral goddess (as per Guide to Glorantha pages 382 and 384). The Galanini  "cult" only appears in the obviously non-canonical The Children of Hykim, which has the Rune spells of Speak with Horse and Command Horse, similar to what David indicates above for Hippoi / Redaylda. The Galanini also have Transform Self (Galanini), but no other Hippoi-related cult would have that. Most of the Galanini are Sun-worshippers, following Ehilm, a version of Yelm, as their primary deity (it's all non-canonical, but this is as close to the Guide to Glorantha as I could reasonably make it).

In that write-up, Galana is analogous to the "broken" Hippoi, the remnants of Hippogriff (this myth is in Wyrms Footnotes #11), but a version that became an ancestor and was not "domesticated". This is unlike Redaylda who is what Horse became after domestication by Hyalor (or, as WF#11 puts it, "slavery").

[Joerg]

4 hours ago, Brian Duguid said:

Galana is analogous to the "broken" Hippoi, the remnants of Hippogriff (this myth is in Wyrms Footnotes #11), but a version that became an ancestor and was not "domesticated". This is unlike Redaylda who is what Horse became after domestication by Hyalor (or, as WF#11 puts it, "slavery").

Redalda/Redaylde is the goddess of horse riders and horse breeders, but not of horses herself. Much like Yelorna is not the goddess of unicorns, but of unicorn riders. And among the Galanini, possible of horse rider women, a female Golden Bow.

Redalda/Redaylde is one of the red-haired women, or tomboy role models. Pony girl is horse-crazy, enjoys riding feats and horseback missiles and possible some melee, too. Other functions would be the horse-riding cowgirl, and possibly horse and cattle raider. She might be as adventurous or more as Enferalda (Ernalda the Supporter/Adventuress), less fertility driven than Bevara (Ernalda the armed battle healer), and hasn't given up on motherhood.

Tomyris, the nemesis of Cyrus the Great, might be a good real world example of Redalda.

[David Scott]

15 hours ago, Joerg said:

Redalda/Redaylde is the goddess of horse riders and horse breeders, but not of horses herself.

Redaldla is the goddess of horses in the Orlanthi pantheon, a role she took on. See Heortling Mythology, page 158. Her husband is either:

Hyalor Horsebreaker (Orlanthi God of Horsemen) or his son Beren the Rider.

(If this isn't clear, the upcoming prosopaedia will clarify)

[Shiningbrow]

It mighit be a difference in spelling, (and my bad memory), but didn't Elmal marry Redalda? At least, that's the myth told in Horsetown...

When Elmal first came to the storm tribe, he was riding a horse, and the tribe laughed at him - all except Redalda... and so on.

This myth was from, as @AndrewTBP wrote above, Storm Tribe's write-up - but for Hero Wars, not RQ.

(and, after just checking - https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/prosopaedia/deities/r/redalda/)

[Akhôrahil]

15 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

It mighit be a difference in spelling, (and my bad memory), but didn't Elmal marry Redalda? At least, that's the myth told in Horsetown...

This is a completely confused area - we have Redalda, daughter of Orlanth and Ernalda, who married Elmal. And we have Redaylda/Redaylde, daughter of Vingkot and the Winter Wife, who married Beren. The stories are very similar in some ways, and different in others.

My personal explanation is that there’s some core Redalda myth cluster, that was then developed in different ways in different places, and then imperfectly re-united. (We see this kind of thing all over the place in the Bible, as well.)

Edited August 26, 2022 by Akhôrahil

[Akhôrahil]

54 minutes ago, David Scott said:

Hyalor Horsebreaker (Orlanthi God of Horsemen)

Will this cult/subcult be in the Cults book?

[David Scott]

2 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Will this cult/subcult be in the Cults book?

As I said above:

On 8/25/2022 at 10:02 AM, David Scott said:

Hyalor is an associate of Ernalda and gives Command Horse.

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by David Scott

[David Scott]

23 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

And we have Redaylda/Redaylde, daughter of Vingkot and the Winter Wife, who married Beren

AKA Bereneth the Rider.

[Joerg]

7 hours ago, David Scott said:

Redaldla is the goddess of horses in the Orlanthi pantheon, a role she took on. See Heortling Mythology, page 158.

In the same sense that Goose Girl is the goddess of water fowl - horses as her responsibility, but not her nature or offspring?

 

[David Scott]

46 minutes ago, Joerg said:

In the same sense that Goose Girl is the goddess of water fowl - horses as her responsibility, but not her nature or offspring?

Depending on your outlook on mythology. I'd say from Heortling Mythology, that it's pretty clear she becomes a horse. A goddess that takes on the nature of a horse and becomes the horse goddess is the horse goddess. I'm pretty sure she would have given gave birth to horses too, the finest in Elmal's herd.

Quote

She did, and more, for she proved that she could even become a horse! On their wedding night, she and Elmal rode wildly off together, and she has tended, healed, and loved his horses ever since.

Heortling Mythology, Redalda, pages 158-159

Are you saying that Goose Girl isn't a goose?

Uralda led the cows, Nevala the ewes, Entra the sows, and Isbarn the Goose Girl the poultry.

Next you'll be saying Uralda isn't a cow or the swan maidens aren't swans. Shapeshifting goddesses is not an uncommon theme.

[Joerg]

I haven't seen any of the Gods book manuscript beyond a very cursory glance at a convention three years ago, so I cannot comment on that yet unpublished material.

The material known to me depicts Redalda as the horse-loving daughter of Ernalda who performs the first Foreigner Marriage with Elmal, as a Storm Village parallel to Redaylde Winter Vingkotsdaughter marrying Beren, starting the husband-led tribes of the Vingkotlings. Elmal/Hyalor is not a horse god but a rider god. Their horse is the broken sky creature formerly known as Hippogriff, the once proud steed of Yamsur that was de-clawed, de-fanged and unwinged before being broken to the saddle by Hyalor. (Yoking an equine or pairs of such to a chariot apparently was an easier task than staying on its back, both historically and in Glorantha.)

I wonder whether the Ernalda connection is the result of the ascendance of the Feathered Horse Queen #1.

 

Otherwise, my views are influenced by our discussion of the Zebra mother in the first of our Nomad Gods episodes. We have Joraz Kyrem, a Pure Horse noble of Yelm, father twin daughters on the Zebra mother of Genert's Garden, a human girl who goes on to found the nomadic tribe of Zebra Riders at the same time her father's people become sedentary inside Paragua's Walls, and the ancestral zebra mare whose offspring are the superior war zebras of the Zebra folk. There is a clear separation between the two tasks and shapes.

We have at least two lineages of VIngkot's sons go the way of the beast totem. Korol's lineage marries the white deer matriarch at some point, with Darndrev the Horned inheriting the deer shape, and passing it on to his descendants as a latent birthright that can be awakened - apparently as a shamanic power, as Heort himself was a shaman, not a theist follower of Orlanth. And we have Kodig's get somehow acquiring the Wolf shape and preying on fellow Vingkotlings and White Deer folk, w hether in human or beast shape, following the loss of control over Nochet in the Sword and Helm debacle. Neither Lastralgor nor Jorganos left a male lineage into this era, so we don't know about any of their acquired or inherited beast shapes. None of the husbands of the daughters and granddaughters of Vingkot appear to have brought in such beast totems. We have two Riders, Beren and Ulanin, three more original husbands (Goralf Brown, Porscriptor the Cannibal, Kastwall Five) and the Star (captain) husbands, companions of Orlanth during his conquest of the Sky who stepped down to marry Vingkotling women facing dangers beyond their ability to cope with, such as Liorn, Forosil, Sedenor and Garan. Possibly more, lost to the Greater Darkness.

The Beast Totem shape-shifting myth of Orlanth and his companions when facing the sorcerers in Anaxial's Roster is a Fronelan myth, among descendants of the Enjoreli and theyalanized Hykimi, even though Vingkot gets named.

 

On the other hand, let's look into Ernalda and horses. Thunder Rebels enumerates ten or a dozen handmaidens of Ernalda, obscure subcults without much if any cultic presence other than invocations and a defining Godtime feat. Two of these are two pony mares, red and grey of coat, aiding Ernalda by carrying her stuff (but not herself). There is no further explanation of their horse-hood, or whether they were daughters of Ernalda or one of her sisters or daughters. There is no mention of any sky or sun connections, either, but maybe such a connection for horses is self-evident to Gloranthans.

Beren and Ulanin are Hyalorings, which may mean descendants of Yamsur and/or Elmal. That would suggest that they brought some hyal stock into the stockades of the Vingkotlings. Maybe those lost their golden hue, or the breed was diluted by admixture of lesser horses, whether Seredae chariot horses or Galana mountain ponies with a stong suspicion of having originated further west in Ralios.

When the Runegate (Hyaloring) triaty settled down in Dragon Pass, their horses apparently were of (somewhat improved) galana stock, with hardly a memory of the Goldeneye breed.

The Galana pony is the offspring of Galanin and either his sister, a metaphorical mother of hooved animals, or the earth goddess, and Galanin in turn is the son of Ehilm the Sun and Fire god. There doesn't seem to be any talk about losing wings or other raptor-like appendages.

 

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

Are you saying that Goose Girl isn't a goose?

Yes, I do. IMG Uralda, Nevala etc. lead their herds in Protectress shape, divine woman-beast chimeras, possibly with extra appendages that neither humans nor beasts possess.

To me, Isbarn is the goose-herding girl from many a fairy tale and ancient and medieval practice of driving flocks of geese to the market, possibly wearing socks or shoes to protect their feet on the long overland trek. She is usually depicted fully human, possibly to be able to tell her apart from goose-headed Imarja.

(Except when Isbarn is Imarja, which is part of the time, and vice versa. I see a bit of a parallel to the Lowfires hiding in one another. But those are secret mysteries, beyond the understanding of men.)

 

To me there is a different quality between a shape you received as your birthright and one that you adopted accepting the love of the nurtured beast or the pain of the flayed divine beast, or through something like Triolina's Proteus magics.

Was Loki a mare when he seduced the work horse of the builder of Asgard in order to provoke a breach of contract allowing Odin and friends to withhold (part of) the payment? I suppose he was surprised to find herself pregnant with Sleipnir. Did he retain his horse-ness afterwards? I haven't seen any other incident of Loki ponying around.

[Ironwall]

Six ages has hylor, the horse goddess gamari , redalda, and beren. As it takes place in the god time I'm unaware of how Relevant the information is within time or if the games lore is canon (not that last part means much for your own games) no write ups as it's a video game but it's has lore you can use to make a write up of your own

Edited August 29, 2022 by Ironwall

[Kettlehelm]

I'm biased becuase I loved the finale for Ride like the Wind, but do like the idea that Redalda and Bereneth were normal if prophesied people who bridged a cultural and mythic Fire/Air gap and by doing it during Godtime, allowed them to be elevanted to mythic proprtions. Pssibly assisted  by Ulain doing the same. Gaining the aspects of their ancestor gods and in turn creating mythical stories which can be used for all the god associated with the story of the pair or on their own if the original story is known.

Edited September 1, 2022 by Kettlehelm

[Jeff]

On 8/24/2022 at 7:00 PM, Godlearner said:

I am looking for any cult write ups for Hippoi, Redaylda or King Griffin cults.  I seen some mention of them in various places, but nothing concrete.

Hippoi is the common name for the Horse Goddess - it just means Horse of course. She's normally worshipped with someone else - Yelm, Dendara, Ernalda, etc. Sometimes her worship is paired with Hyalor. Together they provide Command Horse and Speak to Horse.

King Griffin doesn't really have an independent cult, at least among humans. He's more of a guardian entity with the Yelm cult.