RQII/III Magic Systems & BRP

[icebrand]

I would like some ideas on how to implement the three magic systems.

So far what i got is:

RQ Sorcery = BRP Magic.

House Rules:

• whatever does 1D6 (blast, flame, frost, heal, wounds) does it every 2 levels, not each level.

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RQ Battle Magic / Spirit Magic / Animism = BRP Sorcery
Fluff:

• change all "sorceror's" for "shaman's" and "demon" for "spirit"

• each "spell" is a charm/fetish (as in a physical item, since animism "is something you HAVE") with a spirit bound in it.

• Your shaman can "awaken" a number of spell levels equal to his POW (not INT, since it makes no sense) each day

• Awakening spirits works exactly as preparing spells from a grimoire of course.

• Get spells from the golden book or the bronze grimoire

• Anyone must cast spells, but the charm must be "attuned" to the person (as per learning spells in the book

House Rules

• "brazier of power" becomes "fetch" [only shamans have access to it though]

Becoming a Shaman

Use the rules for learning a new psi ability, and gain a Fetch (as per Brazier of Power spell, but it's on the spirit world and goes everywhere with the shaman). This requires someone to train you, success on a luck roll and the expenditure of 1 POW to gain the fetch.

A fetch gives plenty of Shamanic Powers; Each requires the same training time as a new psi ability (1 POW, luck roll, POWx1 chance), or can be unlocked (2 POW, POWx5 chance).

Additional Shamanic Powers

• Spirit Walking: As per astral projection. Useful to find new spirits to bind, to walk the spirit plane and stuff.
  If using the RQ3 tables, do not add the fetch's to the roll but modify the result with the special chance on this skill if successful (double on a special and pick whatever result you want on a critical). A failure means the shaman rolls on the table without modifiers and a fumble means BAD news (lost, a really horrible encounter, etc)

• Mind Expansion: A shaman can awaken extra levels of spirits up to his fetch's POW (invested POW, not MP), but if so he must succeed on a POWx5 roll subdue the spirit to cast. Failure means the spirit "goes to sleep" while success means it casts as normal. Special and Critical success give no extra benefits, since the shaman is already pushing it. A fumble means the spirit escapes the fetish.

• Spirit Trapping: A shaman can trap ghosts, elemental, and all kind of spirits in his fetch. The TOTAL controlled spirit's PP must be lower than the fetch's PP or they will be able to escape (the most powerful escapes first, and so on, until the fetch's PP > combined spirit's pp). A character must make a POWx5 roll to trap the spirit after defeating it on spirit combat. A fumble releases all spirits.

• Second Sight: A shaman has permanent Witch Vision, but since he must pay attention to both worlds at once, all his perception rolls are Difficult. A shaman can turn OFF second sight with a successful POWx5 roll, at an MP cost equal to aura detection. A fumble leaves the shaman without second sight AND at difficult perception for an appropriate ammount of time until he spends an hour in meditation or ritual or whatever.

• Return from the dead: A shaman's classic. Cast healing with POW (may use the fetch's POW too) instead of PP, and get back to life!!! Takes one day per time used, up to seven days!. A fumble makes the shaman return... as a vengeful spirit of some sort!

NEW SPELL: Lay on Hands: Just a new spell, +20% to medicine to cure disease per level (1-4)

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RQ Runic/Divine Magic = BRP ???

So far, im thinking:

• Alliance rules

• Each spell costs 1 POW to learn; use sorcery spells but learning a spell automatically grants the ability to cast it at any level (1-4 i think?)

• Get spells from the golden book or the bronze grimoire and RQIII's divine magic for special unique divine spells (sever spirit is a special spell that needs to be converted, while shield should use orlanth's armor). Other thematically appropriate spells should be allowed.

• special spells should be pulled from magic (i.e: lightning), psionics (i.e: divination), etc. and then, if really unique, from RQIII/adapted. Lightning and such retain the 1D6/level, since the max is 4 anyway

• A god has all the spells he had on RQIII available as sorcery spells, regardless of them being divine or spirit (i.e: humakt gets "humakt's strength" because he had strength as spirit magic

• Devotees may get a divine companion (the same as a familiar, really)

• OPTION 1: Characters can pray for a number of levels worth of magic equal to their... POW? maybe APP to make it different to shamans (to represent charisma and how much your god likes you). Spells use Power Points, of course.

• OPTION 2: Characters must succeed on a difficult luck roll (initiates) or normal luck roll (devotees) for spellcasting. success means they retain their spell, and failure means they need to pray for it (same time as learning from a grimoire) to cast it again. Special means they regain a used spell and critical all spells. This seems ... erm... clunky, perhaps i should stick with Power Points?

• Gaining new spells is done at a temple and costs one pow and 1-4 days of prayer depending on the spell's level

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Well, that's pretty much it. What do you guys think? Any ideas/comments? Do you see something horribly broken? Are divine users too underpowered?

[NickMiddleton]

More considered comments on your specific suggestions will follow when I've a bit more time, but a couple of off the cuff thoughts...

I would like some ideas on how to implement the three magic systems...

Um, why not just use the RQIII magic systems, available in the BASIC Magic monograph? Pick the right options for other systems (e.g. Hit Locations, Skill categories, SR) and you can pretty much recreate RQIII anyway. Even without recreating RQIII, simply plugging the BASIC Magic stuff in in stead of any of the powers from the BGB would work, and one could then fine tune them on the basis of the extensive experience everyone's had over the decades with the RQIII systems?

I use a "Divine Magic" system in Ulfland that's a custom variant of BGB Sorcery which integrates Allegiance as well and has worked reasonably well (see Uncounted Worlds Issue 1). However, it must be said that this system was partly devised to fit Ulfland (originally my homebrew RQIII setting at University in the mid-1980's...) in to BGB BRP...

As I said above, will ponder your ideas and comment some more later. The joy of BRP of course is that it's very forgiving of this sort of tweaking.

Cheers,

Nick

[icebrand]

Um, why not just use the RQIII magic systems, available in the BASIC Magic monograph?

Erm, i preety much own every RQ3 book ever printed, and whatever RQ2 i could get my hands on. Thing is, i don't really like RQ3 magic. BRP's Magic and Sorcery instead, i find simple, easy and FUN!

Pick the right options for other systems (e.g. Hit Locations, Skill categories, SR) and you can pretty much recreate RQIII anyway. Even without recreating RQIII, simply plugging the BASIC Magic stuff in in stead of any of the powers from the BGB would work, and one could then fine tune them on the basis of the extensive experience everyone's had over the decades with the RQIII systems?

Again, BGB > Basic magic

Im not actually recreating RQIII (it even stopped working once the PC's got to certain level, and we houseruled the heck out of it, then we tried MRQ, now we're back to the BRP BGB).

These are the optional rules that we are considering using right now (starting a new campaign tomorrow!):

• 2D6+6 for stats (moving 3 points in/out of SIZ or switching a roll is allowed; also you may switch values to get a decent INT if you got a bad roll)

• Personality skill bonus (the +20 bonus to skills depending on how you deal with stuff)

• INT Increased skill points

• Total hit points

• An optional fatigue system (-10/-20/half skill when failing easy to hard stamina rolls)

• Distinctive features

• Skill category bonus (but simple bonus as far a stat boosting magic is concerned)

• Complementary Skills

• Literacy

• Skills over 100%

• High roll wins in opposed tests

• ENC (total ENC is subtracted from your stamina roll for fatigue)

• Power use in the action phase

• Attacks & Parries over 100%

• Custom Dodging missile weapons (for thrown weapons, parry at 1/2 and dodge or shield block at full; for ranged weapons parry as special and dodge or shield block at 1/2). In any case the shield wielder can choose to hide beneath it, or use the passive block chance [Maybe i should ease up on this, i'm afraid this will cause A LOT of deaths]

• Dying blows

• Custom splitting attack & parry (you can do "multiple actions" including casting and attacking, as long as you have spare DEX ranks; if you choose to do multiple actions everything is halved (difficult), but you can attack a single opponent once (unless using two weapons, then you can attack twice). Defensive skills are not affected

• Random Armor

• Allegiance

• Personality traits

• Improved Shields (base chance to parry is 15/30/60 and they give +1/+2/+3 armor points)

As I said above, will ponder your ideas and comment some more later. The joy of BRP of course is that it's very forgiving of this sort of tweaking.Nick

Thanks! I'm worried my divine users will feel shafted (starting new characters with 250+INTx10+Personality Bonus and 2 "divine" spells after 10+ years of RQ3 with 150ish POW in rune magic), though the balance i want is sorcerers and divine users, shamans are allowed to be a bit better because noone plays one, and they make fearsome enemies [plus, i don't think the shaman's skills are so overpowered AND they require to carry around items/foci/charms/whatever you want to call them to cast]

Edited July 3, 2010 by icebrand

[RosenMcStern]

Crusaders of the Amber Coast contains an Allegiance-based version of Divine Magic, and an adaptation of Sorcery to an animistic (not exactly shamanic) context, including the rules for creating charms and for playing sorcery in a culture that does not use writing.

[sdavies2720]

Crusaders of the Amber Coast contains an Allegiance-based version of Divine Magic, and an adaptation of Sorcery to an animistic (not exactly shamanic) context, including the rules for creating charms and for playing sorcery in a culture that does not use writing.

Darn it, now I want to get that.

And, I'm finding I'm incorporating more and more of Dragon Lines, so I might have to get a print copy of that...darn you.

Steve

[NickMiddleton]

Can't see any obvious problems (but as ever, proof will be in play). As a suggestion, it might be worth writing out a full list of the options and features of "Sorcery" and looking at it along side your Shamanism / Spirit magic: not necessarily from any reductionists idea of game balance per se, but one instinctively feels that Shamanism / Spirit Magic is a more "direct / instinctive" form of magic and Sorcery the intricate, involved and complex one and my gut feeling is that currently your Shamanism will feel the more intricate and complex in play. Magic in the BGB is IMO the system in most need of expansion: you'll probably need to add some new spells and some additional rules about manipulating spells, plus clarifying Staff / Familiars. Basically, "Sorcery" needs some nice "chrome"...

For Divine Magic in Ulfland I limited spells by Allegiance - To get access to Divine spells a character requires an Allegiance of at least 50 to a specific deity and to allied to them (Allegiance to that deity twenty point greater than any other Allegiance, and character has actively chosen to acknowledge the allegiance). Plus the power points to cast Divine Spells came from the character, but they know a number of spells (drawn from the BRP Sorcery list) equal to Allegiance / 10. Permanent sacrifice of characteristic POW is a very RQ idea I'd be wary of using - there were (fairly obvious) ways of house ruling it to work in RQIII, but BGB Magic & Sorcery spells are significantly less powerful than RQII/III Rune / Divine Magic spells.

Cheers,

Nick

[icebrand]

Well, we did episode 1 & 2 of troubled waters from river of craddles (actually i never ran a published scenario before, besides the one in the RQ book).

They were a vingan, a kolati shaman and a footman from sir ethilrist's black horse troop.

The vingan got two spells (bladesharp and heal). I decided on the fly that the divine/spirit version does +1/+5% per point (up to 4) and the sorcery gets +1/+9 damage like it used to.

Heal also became variable (1-4) at 1D3/point [again to keep it in line with the 1D6/2 lvls of the magic system, which save for the intensity cap is way better than it ever was anyway].

The sorcerer began with four spells, the animist with 1/2 int (8 levels) and the initiate with 2 spells (they can cast 1-4 levels from the get go, since they supposedly spend POW for them)

They made short work of the mudsharks due to the shaman having a light spell (otherwise it would be quite difficult to defeat the creatures in their lair). Due to total hit points the creatures themselves presented little risk, but it didn't really matter since all the PC's were females [yes, weird, i know, ive a 3 to 1 women to men ratio in my tables!!!] and don't care much for combat.

[RosenMcStern]

I might have to get a print copy of that...darn you.

We now have every title in stock and make big discounts for purchasing both print and PDF. Anyone who might eventually "feel the need" for the dead tree version should consider this option, rather than going straigth for DriveThru.

For Divine Magic in Ulfland I limited spells by Allegiance - To get access to Divine spells a character requires an Allegiance of at least 50 to a specific deity and to allied to them (Allegiance to that deity twenty point greater than any other Allegiance, and character has actively chosen to acknowledge the allegiance). Plus the power points to cast Divine Spells came from the character, but they know a number of spells (drawn from the BRP Sorcery list) equal to Allegiance / 10. Permanent sacrifice of characteristic POW is a very RQ idea I'd be wary of using - there were (fairly obvious) ways of house ruling it to work in RQIII, but BGB Magic & Sorcery spells are significantly less powerful than RQII/III Rune / Divine Magic spells.

Very true. I had to tweak some Sorcery spells slightly in order to use them for pagan magic. And basing Divine Magic on Allegiance rather than on POW loss is the way to go. Incidentally, it is exactly the way Loz and Pete handled it in MRQ II.