Upland Marsh Heroquests

[mfbrandi]

9 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

I would say that a large part of what you bring back would be claimed by [five very sensible suggestions]

It depends what you bring back, though: if it is a year’s supply of top quality basmati, then sure, but if you return with Arkat, Sheng Seleris, or Stormbringer, it may well be a case of “Go! Take that with you. And never darken my towels again.”

[French Desperate WindChild]

29 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

It depends what you bring back, though: if it is a year’s supply of top quality basmati, then sure, but if you return with Arkat, Sheng Seleris, or Stormbringer, it may well be a case of “Go! Take that with you. And never darken my towels again.”

mmm for sure but I was thinking about item and... well.. I would never say (in front of them) that I consider this guys and... lady (yes stormbringer is a madame mmm i think) as... item

[mfbrandi]

48 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

mmm for sure but I was thinking about item

… and I was thinking of all three as weapons (“fantasy nukes”). I should probably see my psychiatrist about that.

[Erol of Backford]

Sorry double posted.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Erol of Backford

[Erol of Backford]

7 hours ago, svensson said:

In HQ, everything is a handwave. It's one of the reasons why I much prefer RQ to HQ.

I couldn't agree more, plus I need to roll lots of dice as any old school gamer knows! (Plus I don't know how to Hero Quest.) Maybe if there is another Con in Michigan they will run some Hero Quests as they would be a real add to the RQ Campaigns I had run in the past. (Just noticed the ACW era clothing, been to almost every battlefield over the years, living history is pretty cool. Do you normally command a battery?)

On 9/19/2022 at 9:42 PM, svensson said:

Sarostip of Jonstown

Mr. Svensson do you have a source for the Sarostip Hero Quest?

Can't stop laughing... Maybe Mr. Connolly's girlfriend was a Humakti? And the girl in the corner is everyone's mourner - She could kill you with a wink of her eye.

Ernalda’s Undead Grotto A Heroplace, an entrance to which can be found in the Marsh. Before the Marsh was created, this underground grotto was the idyllic home of the goddess of this region, a daughter of Ernalda. However, Delecti’s foul rituals corrupted this place and its denizens. Some say that the goddess is now held here in chains, tormented by a myriad of unliving horrors. Other says that she is the slavish and perverted lover of Delecti. There are four exits from this place, one leads to the Upland Marsh, two are heavily guarded, and the last needs no guard.

I didn't dream that there was an actual written version of a Hero Quest to Ernalda’s Undead Grotto - its in 13th Age in Glorantha!

[Leingod]

7 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

I would say that a large part of what you bring back would be claimed by

 

1) the community supporting you

2) the most appropriate cult (even if not supporting you)

3) the (tribe or clan, kingdom if more centralized) leaders (even if not supporting you)

4) the bloodline of the "bringer"

5) then the family

 

of course it depends on the power of the item (more powerful it is, more claimed it would be) , if a ceremonial item was "given" by some party and what are the ties between the heroquestors and the different "claimers"

Pretty sure that the family will consider that the bringer is the temporal owner but the item should stay in the family (from where are the heirloom !)

but upper and upper in the hierarchy of the claimer, the bringer would have less and less opportunity to own it and will be rewarded in other ways (land, weapon, teaching, position opportunity,  etc..) However with or without bargain the bringer may obtain the use of the item for a while

 

but that's for players who are in a social game (at least partially), if players are more in a pure adventure game (any loot is my loot) who get the item get the ownership so mgf

 

This all assumes that something like the Lawstaff can just be used by any rando who forces you to hand it off to them. But given how you get it, that really feels just plain wrong. Ask you to use it for them, absolutely. But if you went on the Heroquest to prove yourself rightful wielder of the Lawstaff, it’s yours, not property of whoever you happen to report to. It’s proof of YOUR ability to invoke and enforce Orlanth’s justice, not theirs.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Leingod

[Erol of Backford]

26 minutes ago, Leingod said:

This all assumes that something like the Lawstaff can just be used by any rando who forces you to hand it off to them.

What would you bring back from an Upland Marsh Hero Quest as a gift/ability/physical item? What powers would an item have or an ability be?

Spoiler

Are the PC's able to free Ernalda’s daughter from her bindings in the grotto and if so what would the results be? Headway in reducing the marsh itself, a strong demigod ally against the undead?

Maybe there is something more?

Spoiler

The PC's work their way around Sartar and other places freeing demigods, Firshala, Ernalda's Daughter, Baroshi, Orgavale Summer that are grateful and lend powers to the PC's on their path to Herodom? This could work into a very interesting set of sub plots to a campaign.

Are there other imprisoned demigods hanging around waiting to be rescued? If anyone could source them I'd appreciate it.

On an even stranger note how would they tie to the EWF's or possibly the Scholarly Wyrm, Windwhistler, the guy at Tink all have something to do with nudging the PC's to the places where these powerful allies are "discovered"?

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Erol of Backford

[French Desperate WindChild]

8 hours ago, Leingod said:

This all assumes that something like the Lawstaff can just be used by any rando who forces you to hand it off to them. But given how you get it, that really feels just plain wrong. Ask you to use it for them, absolutely. But if you went on the Heroquest to prove yourself rightful wielder of the Lawstaff, it’s yours, not property of whoever you happen to report to. It’s proof of YOUR ability to invoke and enforce Orlanth’s justice, not theirs.

i base all my point about the sun county book (FR but I think it is the same),  where Belvani get back a crystal from hill of gold and has only the right to use it for some time before he has to give it "back" to his cult.

But that's not "any rando", that's something/one important to you, to your devotion or loyalty, to your reputation, your progress in the society. Exactly the same that, if you succeed any raid, you have to give your plunder to your clan, and the ring decides who get what. In all cases you proved your value, but except if you are lone or the big boss, you are part of something more important than you.

 

Note that I was exactly with your perspective when I read the sun county text years ago (or about the plunder "distribution") but I now consider that is more because I was influenced by my irl perspective of property. And as I have no notion of what was property in other civilizations to tell me what to apply, I just use the books inspiration 🙂

 

 

[Erol of Backford]

16 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

But if you went on the Heroquest to prove yourself rightful wielder of the Lawstaff, it’s yours, not property of whoever you happen to report to. It’s proof of YOUR ability to invoke and enforce Orlanth’s justice, not theirs.

What Orlanthi artifacts are able to be gained via a Hero Quest in the Marsh? What powers would they?

 

16 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Belvani

Has Belvani Hero Quested in the Marsh? If so what did he get/gain by doing so?

[French Desperate WindChild]

7 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

What Orlanthi artifacts are able to be gained via a Hero Quest in the Marsh? What powers would they?

 

Has Belvani Hero Quested in the Marsh? If so what did he get/gain by doing so?

Sorry sir, no idea about the Marsh 🙂

but if you are looking for a "little" artifact (weapon +1, dead crystal or even living one, ...), I think you are free to  put it anywhere.

I say this freedom even if i m often "blocked" by my fear to not follow some background / myth. But I have no idea what big prize and what heroquest you can find there.

 

Note that for me, as a player, I would prefer to get some heroic ability than an item (characteristic, characteristic maximum, new skill, heroic spell,  shaman ability-like etc...) the best for me would be some new feature (like what chaos gift could provide but without chaos taint) like new wings, at will beast transformation, ability to see in the dark or in water,  things like that. Of course it depends on the danger.

As a player too,  I would "offer" any item to my cult, or my leader, or ... and expect some favors in return.

[Joerg]

If you take a bleeding wound while embodying your deity on a heroquest, could your blood coagulate as a living crystal?

[JRE]

I have had players covered in a deity's blood during a heroquest find a powered crystal when they return to Time. 

[jajagappa]

On 12/14/2022 at 7:11 PM, Erol of Backford said:

What would you bring back from an Upland Marsh Hero Quest as a gift/ability/physical item? What powers would an item have or an ability be?

I'm not sure that's the right way to look at such a quest.  It's assuming you're after some sort of material item/ability.  Now maybe you could find one of the tools of the Remakers, but it may have no value in and of itself.  (The Remakers were questing to restore the lost beast-men of God-time.)

I think this would be much more like healing the Fisher King.  Your goal might be to awaken Ernalda's Daughter; or to heal Ernalda's Daughter of her disease or wounding; or free her from Delecti's captivity.  What you'd get out of that is the opportunity to heal the land of its wounds and eliminate the marsh.

[Erol of Backford]

2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

free her from Delecti's captivity

I mentioned this early in hidden notes/spoiler tabs.

Spoiler

Are the PC's able to free Ernalda’s daughter from her bindings in the grotto and if so what would the results be? Headway in reducing the marsh itself, a strong demigod ally against the undead?

Spoiler

The PC's work their way around Sartar and other places freeing demigods, Firshala, Ernalda's Daughter, Baroshi, Orgavale Summer that are grateful and lend powers to the PC's on their path to Herodom? This could work into a very interesting set of sub plots to a campaign.

On an even stranger note how would they tie to the EWF's or possibly the Scholarly Wyrm, Windwhistler, the guy at Tink all have something to do with nudging the PC's to the places where these powerful allies are "discovered"?

What might be Ernalda's Daughter's powers, spells, gifts, etc. for a hero cult of sorts once she is freed? How is she freed?

Are there other imprisoned demigods hanging around waiting to be rescued similar to Ernalda's Daughter besides those listed in spoilers? If anyone could source them I'd appreciate it.

[Shiningbrow]

On 12/16/2022 at 4:43 PM, French Desperate WindChild said:

Note that for me, as a player, I would prefer to get some heroic ability than an item (characteristic, characteristic maximum, new skill, heroic spell,  shaman ability-like etc...) the best for me would be some new feature (like what chaos gift could provide but without chaos taint) like new wings, at will beast transformation, ability to see in the dark or in water,  things like that. Of course it depends on the danger.

Personally, I'd go for a new Rune spell... or an ability that can be used as a spell.

Because - it gives it to you personally, and then becomes available to the rest of the cult.

Which in turn would usually mean hero status, and being worshipped as a new hero sub-cult.

[French Desperate WindChild]

3 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Personally, I'd go for a new Rune spell... or an ability that can be used as a spell.

Because - it gives it to you personally, and then becomes available to the rest of the cult.

Which in turn would usually mean hero status, and being worshipped as a new hero sub-cult.

That would mean you (the pc) depends on your « worshippers »

(well we don’t have the rule, My answer is based on what I understood from the white bull campaign )

 

so it depends a lot on the gm and the campaign. The ability is for you, at will, without « fuel »from others

[Erol of Backford]

Hero powers are the answer like Release Undead, Turn Undead, Immunity to harmonize, demoralize, mesmerize or enthrall? The question is what is the cost if any to use the power in magic points?

[soltakss]

Just now, Erol of Backford said:

Hero powers are the answer like Release Undead, Turn Undead, Immunity to harmonize, demoralize, mesmerize or enthrall? The question is what is the cost if any to use the power in magic points?

I call that Heroic Casting in Secrets of HeroQuesting. The spells cost the same in Magic Points as they would cost in Rune Points. In effect, your POW becomes a Rune Pool with which to cast those spells.

In my games, having a power like Release Undead or Turn Undead would cost magic points, but immunity to the powers of undead would be free, not costing magic points.

 

[Shiningbrow]

12 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Immunity to harmonize, demoralize, mesmerize or enthrall

Sounds a bit like an Undead version of Counter Chaos... in a way.

As an ability, it would be good.

As a Rune Spell, even better (especially if you can cast it on others as well)

[radmonger]

The captive daughter obviously represents the upland marsh. Now an upland marsh is a rare thing; the water would normally drain out. An upland marsh in long-populated territory like Sartar is even rarer; someone should have long ago drained it. Delecti's undead could presumably fight off the workforce required for conventional drainage methods. But the kind of earth magic that defeated the Lunars at the Building Wall Battle could have done it in a day.

Which implies such magic doesn't normally work within the swamp. You might summon an earth elemental, but it is weak and diffuse, containing too much water to be effective.

So a simple reward power is just to negate that. If you know the secret, your earth elementals remain solid when summoned in the upland marsh. En masse, they can be used to create solid ground for an army to fight on. Without the terrain advantage, no undead army will last long against the Lismelder Humakti.

But then why would the Lunars, who are allies of Delecti, be promoting this quest? Is it just backstabbing internal lunar politics?

Also, do the ducks really want to drain the marsh, where they are the masters of combat? 

So maybe the whole thing is a setup; the daughter is in fact corrupt, not merely captive. The secret works, but Delecti knows of it, and has a counter. A raiding party using it might have great success, kill many undead and win great renown. But when an army marches into the swamp  trusting in that magic, it will not return.

And Delecti will have a fresh supply of corpses...

[Erol of Backford]

Simple enough, never set foot in the marsh or venture in very deeply, only destroy those undead that come to the fringes, shrink the swap size and eventually they'll come out to play... burn your dead so they cannot be made into undead. Everyone learns to release undead and the corpses and or skeletons whatever need to be brough out of the swap to be burned. Small raids to the fringes may be able to deplete rank and file undead over time if done with coordination? Curious why attempts have been made to venture deeply into the marsh for any reason? Seems like a suicide move from what has been printed? Has anyone thought to use Greek fire on the marsh archers at a time? Forget drain the swamp, how about burn it?

[mfbrandi]

17 hours ago, radmonger said:

Now an upland marsh is a rare thing; the water would normally drain out.

You now have me thinking of an uphill river slain in Godtime (before the 180° memo) and brought back as a zombie to keep the marsh filled.

Or just a spring bubbling up from a particularly nasty bit of the underworld.

[jajagappa]

17 hours ago, radmonger said:

Now an upland marsh is a rare thing; the water would normally drain out.

Unless there are beavers.

[mfbrandi]

1 minute ago, jajagappa said:

Unless there are beavers.

Undead beavers! We want undead beavers!

[Erol of Backford]