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Akrasia

Chaosium's Stormbringer (1e & 4e) and Elric! PDFs now available

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That's surprising, I'd thought they'd sold all the rights to Mongoose....evidently not.

Err - look closer - the products are all listed under Mongooses' section in RPGNow / DTR; as "Classic Moorcock". I assume Chaosium and Mongoose have done an additional deal which allows MGP (as the curretn license holder) to sell the works that Chaosium previously released and I'd assume that Chaosium get some revenue.

Since I already own all of it in print form anyway and I've no interest in giving Mongoose any of my money my only question would be what effect, if any, does this new arrangement have on future BRP projects that want to re-use material Chaosium previously published in those books? The BGB Sorcery system is, essentially, the Magic system from Elric! / SB5, so is it still possible (as oft discussed here) to recast some of the contents of the Bronze Grimoire for BRP?

Cheers,

Nick

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Err - look closer - the products are all listed under Mongooses' section in RPGNow / DTR; as "Classic Moorcock". I assume Chaosium and Mongoose have done an additional deal which allows MGP (as the curretn license holder) to sell the works that Chaosium previously released and I'd assume that Chaosium get some revenue.

None so blind as them that don't look..... :o

Since I already own all of it in print form anyway and I've no interest in giving Mongoose any of my money my only question would be what effect, if any, does this new arrangement have on future BRP projects that want to re-use material Chaosium previously published in those books? The BGB Sorcery system is, essentially, the Magic system from Elric! / SB5, so is it still possible (as oft discussed here) to recast some of the contents of the Bronze Grimoire for BRP?

I guess it goes back to that old thing of you can trademark names etc but not a game system, that's how they got round re - issuing the old RQ3 books as the basic monographs. I suppose as ling as you stripped out all the Moorcock and young kingdoms references you'd be ok.

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I am very much tempted to buy "Sailing on the Seas of Fate", provided it is not too setting specific

and could be modified for use with BRP without too much effort.

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I am very much tempted to buy "Sailing on the Seas of Fate", provided it is not too setting specific

and could be modified for use with BRP without too much effort.

You'd probably be better off just using the ship rules from White Wolf or RQ3 (similar but not identical, White Wolf seems to be an updated version of the RQ3 ship rules).

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You'd probably be better off just using the ship rules from White Wolf or RQ3 (similar but not identical, White Wolf seems to be an updated version of the RQ3 ship rules).

Thank you very much for the information. :)

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You'd probably be better off just using the ship rules from White Wolf or RQ3 (similar but not identical, White Wolf seems to be an updated version of the RQ3 ship rules).

What are the differences? (I already bought Sailing on the Seas of Fate, and RQ3 is currently in storage.)

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Having given some thought to it, I can't help but feel that this is a pretty short sighted move by Chaosium. Mongoose already have RuneQuest, with their own Elric version thereof. Now by giving/leasing/selling the Elric game system ( as opposed to setting ) Chaosium have in effect handed a big chunk of the BRP system over as well. Consider: one of BRP's 5 power systems, ie Sorcery is in Elric, major and minor wounds, variable armour, all parts of the BRP system and now they've handed it to a major rival

Quite apart from the competition angle it now means ( I suspect ) they can't use material from the Bronze Grimoire etc themselves. Given that there was another 40 odd sorcery spells plus the whole Runic sorcery system in there that they could of used in a BRP magic supplement or BRP companion it seems like handing someone a knife and then baring your throat to them.

I sometimes feel playing or buying Chaosium games is like having a friend who suffers from substance abuse issues. You watch them lurch from one short term crisis to another, whilst ( at the same time ) they slowly shut down or close off their long term options, all the while they have their hand out asking you for money...trouble is after a while even the loyalist friend goes " enough of your nonsense....I'm off " After the shabby and lazy presentation of the Basic monographs this latest move seems to beggar common sense. And I must admit I'm rapidly approaching that " I'm off " point. Chaosium sometimes seem so intent on their own self destruction that it's tempting just to let them get on with it.....

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I don't think your concerns are well placed, Agentorange.

1. Chaosium lost the license to sell Elric!/SB material to Mongoose. It was no longer available (aside from the used book market). Thanks to an agreement between the two companies, it is now available again. Nothing in the agreement seems to permit Mongoose to repackage and resell the material found in the older Chaosium books. Both companies simply have agreed to make available the PDFs again.

2. No 'big chunck' of BRP has been 'handed over' to Mongoose. I can't understand why you would think this. The sorcery system, major and minor wounds, etc., are still part of BRP.

3. The fact that Mongoose now has the right to publish 'RuneQuest' did not prevent Chaosium from publishing 'Basic Magic' (essentially RQIII's magic systems with the serial numbers filed off) and other RQIII-derived books ('Basic Monsters', etc.). Why should the 'Bronze Grimoire' be any different? (Not that Chaosium has shown any interest in re-publishing the BG material in any case. At least now it is available again.)

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I guess it goes back to that old thing of you can trademark names etc but not a game system, that's how they got round re - issuing the old RQ3 books as the basic monographs. I suppose as ling as you stripped out all the Moorcock and young kingdoms references you'd be ok.

Um, without wishing to rehearse that debate again... the situation is somewhat different: the copyright of the text of RQIII reverted to Chaosium - since it was always published as a generic game, with Glorantha as one possible setting, the text of the 4 main booklets from the AH Deluxe set contained almost no references to Glorantha, and only the Trademark name "RuneQuest" needed removing. The text of "the Bronze Grimoire" could (I am not a legal professional...) be viewed as a derivative work of IP the copyright of which belongs to Mike Moorcock, so that text could NOT be used with out license. Depending on the precise terms of the deal under which Chaosium's old supplements are now being sold by Mongoose, that interpretation might have been strengthened...

Put it this way, if there was ALREADY a BRP Magic supplement out that adapted the rules contents of the Bronze Grimoire, the Unknown East, Nephilim and Liber Ka for use with the BGB I'd be less concerned...

Cheers,

Nick

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The fact that the two editions back out honestly it makes me Very happy. I see the fact that there is a demand and the game has not perished. While I am not a fan of Mongoose ( I can't really explain why.... considering the number of products with their stamp on my hard drive I guess I am A hypocrite, I suppose I should be grateful for resurrecting the RQ/ Traveller and Stormbringer - my favorite Trio of RPGS). I would like to think that eventually the old games may make a comeback.... my favorite was where the 2d Minis you taped to a penny in the back of the 1st Ed Stormbringer.

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Um, without wishing to rehearse that debate again... the situation is somewhat different: the copyright of the text of RQIII reverted to Chaosium - since it was always published as a generic game, with Glorantha as one possible setting, the text of the 4 main booklets from the AH Deluxe set contained almost no references to Glorantha, and only the Trademark name "RuneQuest" needed removing. The text of "the Bronze Grimoire" could (I am not a legal professional...) be viewed as a derivative work of IP the copyright of which belongs to Mike Moorcock, so that text could NOT be used with out license. Depending on the precise terms of the deal under which Chaosium's old supplements are now being sold by Mongoose, that interpretation might have been strengthened...

Put it this way, if there was ALREADY a BRP Magic supplement out that adapted the rules contents of the Bronze Grimoire, the Unknown East, Nephilim and Liber Ka for use with the BGB I'd be less concerned...

Cheers,

Nick

Which in a far more coheremt fashion is what I was trying to articulate in my rather ranty post a little further back ( I feel better now ) I do find Chaosium frustrating though, they had a heaven sent oppurtunity to make a great product which would have enhanced one of their pre existing power systems ( sorcery ), expanded it ( runic sorcery ) and introduced possibly 6 new magical systems....and nothing.

Bah, humbug, I'm going to get an apple juice and make myself beans on toast before I get on my soapbox again

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Well, sometimes one could really get the impression that Chaosium rarely misses the chance

to miss a chance. ;D

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I don't think your concerns are well placed, Agentorange.

1. Chaosium lost the license to sell Elric!/SB material to Mongoose. It was no longer available (aside from the used book market). Thanks to an agreement between the two companies, it is now available again. Nothing in the agreement seems to permit Mongoose to repackage and resell the material found in the older Chaosium books. Both companies simply have agreed to make available the PDFs again.

2. No 'big chunck' of BRP has been 'handed over' to Mongoose. I can't understand why you would think this. The sorcery system, major and minor wounds, etc., are still part of BRP.

3. The fact that Mongoose now has the right to publish 'RuneQuest' did not prevent Chaosium from publishing 'Basic Magic' (essentially RQIII's magic systems with the serial numbers filed off) and other RQIII-derived books ('Basic Monsters', etc.). Why should the 'Bronze Grimoire' be any different? (Not that Chaosium has shown any interest in re-publishing the BG material in any case. At least now it is available again.)

Well, if you read Nick's comment and my response you'll get a better idea of my concerns. The fact remains that if Mongoose have the material available themselves it makes it much harder for Chaosium to utilise it, that would be providing direct competition to Mongoose and I can't see them agreeing to that.

I just feel that Chaosium have missed an golden opportunity here. They had a good source of ready made material. They obviously had rights to use it as witness Sorcery as one of the core powers in the BGB. They had the rights to the material in the Basic magic monograph. So really how hard would it have been to gather together the rest of the sorcery spells from the various Elric supplements ( including if possible Gods of law, Gods of Chaos etc ) and do a little editorial work on them ?

Next they have the Runic sorcery system from the Bronze Grimoire, come up with some more spells for that ( surely not that hard )

Thoroughly edit the Basic monograph to bring it up to BRP standard. Slap it all together with ( maybe ) BRPised versions of the Unknown east magic system and the system from Nephelim. The beauty of it would have been that there's not a huge amount of work involved.....most the material is already there and just needs editing. BRP main rule book came out how long ago ? Two years maybe ? And what have we had from Chaosium since then, One ok Dungeon crawl, and 3 sloppy and lazily presented monographs. it's hardly product support is it ?

Hell if they lacked the time I'm sure there's loads of people here would have proof read/edited for them for nothing more than an honourable mention in the credits. Which would you rather have had ? Three poor monographs or a bumper book of magic fun.

Incidentally if Nick M is reading this my curiousity got the better of me.....I've ordered several of the Nephilim books

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I understand Agentorange's concerns - and I'd certainly love to see the book he describes - but at the same time, I think there might be a bit of unnecessary panic going on. I freely admit to having zero idea of what's up with the terms of this deal, but isn't it at least reasonable to assume that this is strictly a distribution agreement and nothing of the content has actually been transferred to Mongoose? That's how I've viewed it thus far, anyway.

Oh, and for the record, the thing I'd most like to see Chaosium put out is a full book that's essentially nothing more than Elric! (plus the Bronze Grimoire) with all the serial numbers filed off. The Big Gold Book rocks my work, but it's a terrible introduction to the BRP system for people who just want a game to play. It's a marvelous toolkit, but there's just too much stuff in there (and plenty of it, not conflicting per se, but not exactly compatible, either) for new players to get into. At least, that's how I see it.

Anyway, I'll take the PDFs being available again and cheer, both for legal access to the material and for the possibility that it provides Chaosium with a little more revenue to keep on chugging along at the best speed they can manage.

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...but isn't it at least reasonable to assume that this is strictly a distribution agreement and nothing of the content has actually been transferred to Mongoose? That's how I've viewed it thus far, anyway.

Likewise.

Nothing in the Mongoose announcement suggests or implies that they now own the content of the old Chaosium material. It only states that they and Chaosium have agreed to make the PDFs available again.

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