Dungeons and Dragons retro clones - advice sought.....

[Agentorange]

So then, I have a niece in her early teens. Who has just discovered D'n'D via her school games club. it's 5th edition there and she's finding it a bit complicated ( bad dyslexia ) . Now I'm considering maybe getting her  RQ classic as an alternative, it's intuitive, quite streamlined and compared to RQG doesn't come with a huge amount of Gloranthan lore to absorb.

But I'm also considering buying her one of the various basic/1st edition d'n'd retro clones as a easy way into the hobby. But, i know nothing about them, which ones are good ( or bad ), how simple or hard each one is, which are good value for money and so on.

So if anybody knows anything about them, I'd appreciate your input and advice on the matter

Edited October 2, 2022 by Agentorange

[Bill the barbarian]

1 hour ago, Agentorange said:

But I'm also considering buying her one of the various basic/1st edition d'n'd retro clones as a easy way into the hobby. But, i know nothing about them, which ones are good ( or bad ), how simple or hard each one is, which are good value for money and son on.

There is a Mythras game called Classic Fantasy that is kinda an OSR DnD clone.

http://thedesignmechanism.com/Classic-Fantasy.php

 

ETA

I have found it is not standalone but will require either Mythras (once known as RQ6) or the author states may work with other D100 games (RQ classic should be fine, I would think).

Edited October 2, 2022 by Bill the barbarian

[g33k]

I'd check in with her.

It's very possible that everyone at her school is "only 5e, entirely 5e" and any other RPG would be problematic for various social reasons; getting her a different game asks her to not only read and learn it, but convince the other kids.

In that case, it might be worth getting her one of D&D's "Starter" or "Essentials" boxes.

Another thing to consider -- online content via "D&D Beyond," which offers all the core content in possibly(?)-more-usable format...

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by g33k

[Mankcam]

15 hours ago, Agentorange said:

So then, I have a niece in her early teens. Who has just discovered D'n'D via her school games club. it's 5th edition there and she's finding it a bit complicated ( bad dyslexia ) . Now I'm considering maybe getting her  RQ classic as an alternative, it's intuitive, quite streamlined and compared to RQG doesn't come with a huge amount of Gloranthan lore to absorb.

Rather than RQ Classic, The Age of Shadow is a great BRP alternative to check out - the  core book pdf is free, and the setting book pdf is very cheap. Both of them in printed form are quite cheap as they are just booklets:

• Age of Shadow core book: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product_info.php?products_id=93513&filters=0_0_0_0&manufacturers_id=3785
• Age of Shadow campaign guide: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product_info.php?products_id=93514&filters=0_0_0_0&manufacturers_id=3785
• Age of Shadow character sheet: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/141771/Age-of-Shadow-Character-Sheet?src=also_purchased&filters=0_0_0_0&manufacturers_id=3785

It also has a small website with a few goodies: http://ageofshadow.freehostia.com/

It's an easy option if you want to get new players used to BRP.

It's classic High Fantasy, so it's simple enough you can convert most D&D modules pretty easily. It plays like RQ without Hit Locations and less Skill bloat, and for me it feels more straight forward than RQG or RQ2 (and I started playing RQ about 1985).

As far as Skills go, just fill in the ones you put skill points in, and leave the remainder blank - it's very easy to see where the character's strengths are, and if the character needs to attempt an action they have not put skill points in, then the sheet tells you which core characteristics to add at the time.

Very cheap to get into this rpg, and highly recommended! 

(PS: Here's a brief video review of Age Of Shadow by Runeslinger)

Edited October 3, 2022 by Mankcam

[simonh]

What's the purpose of getting her another game, for her to run it? Bear in mind she'll need to persuade the others to play the game with her.

As a player 5e is not a complex system, most of what complexity there is comes in the form of many different options, it's basic resolution mechanics are very straightforward. You can cut down the complexity of 5e a lot by just choosing to play one of the simpler character classes, like the Barbarian or one of the simpler subclasses of fighter. Most of the OSR games aren't really any simpler, they just have fewer options.

[1d8+DB]

So its not  an OSR, but '13th Age' might be a possibility; it's pretty much 3-4e D&D, but very much pared down and simplified.  Pretty much all the  familiar classes and  'peoples' are present.

Some brief notes on some OSR games that I own.

 

'Lamentations of the Flame Princess':  Pretty much a straight 'white-box' clone. Stuff written for it pretty much slews to the horror side of play, so might not be entirely appropriate for some younger players.

'Knave':  Seven pages of rules only.  Very bare-bones. There's a  2nd edition in the pipe-line. Its only a few dollars at DrivethruRPG.

'Dungeon World':  This introduced  player-sided mechanics, which has been widely embraced in the  OSR world; only the players ever roll the dice.  There's a 20-sided mechanic: 15+ you succeed, do damage, etc.  9-14, you succeed, but the DM gets a 'Move'; they can introduce a complication (more Orcs rush into the melee), 13 or less and you fail and the  DM gets their move.

'Mork Borg':  This made a quite a splash when it came out, largely for its gonzo art-style and lay-out.  Another game with player-sided mechanics.  Rules  are pretty much reduced to a few a paragraphs.  It's grim-dark turned up to '11'.  It's goblins are terrifying (fight one, and if it survives the combat, you will become a goblin).

'Warlock' and 'Warpstar':  The first is fantasy while the second is  space-opera.  Heavily influenced  by  the Warhammer line, with 'Careers' and  'Wound tables'.  Besides your skills  you only have two characteristics: 'Luck' and 'Stamina' (hit-points).

And to finish I'll name-drop three that I don't  have, but  appear to have large followings:

'Dungeon Crawl Classics'.

'Index Card RPG.'

'Old School Essentials.'

Edited October 11, 2022 by 1d8+DB

[Mugen]

I would not recommend any old school product to anyone, especially if that person has dyslexia.

Those games tend to have very different systems for every situation. I'm not a fan of 5e, which in my opinion should have been closer to 4e, but at least you have a basic system which you can rely on : roll a d20 and add a bonus, trying to roll higher than a difficulty threshold.

Magic and character abilities are what makes 5e more complicated than TSR editions. Even if it was one of their stated goals, even a Fighter is more complex to play than in 1e. And they made "vancian" magic even more complex than before, as there's now a difference between the number of spells you prepare and the number you can cast per day.

RQ Battle/Spirit Magic is considerably simpler. But its combat system is quite complex, with Strike Ranks, Hit Locations and so on.

I think OpenQuest, Magic World or Dragonbane (when available...) are better options for complete beginners, or people that like simpler systems.

[ThornPlutonius]

Also: Bare Bones Fantasy (D100 Lite, non-BRP), the White Hack (simplified D20-esque), Swords of Cepheus (2D6, based upon the Cepheus Engine).

 

 

[g33k]

11 hours ago, ThornPlutonius said:

... Bare Bones Fantasy (D100 Lite, non-BRP) ...

I am *really* liking (most of) what I've seen of DwD Studios' "d00lite" system.

11 hours ago, ThornPlutonius said:

... the White Hack (simplified D20-esque), Swords of Cepheus (2D6, based upon the Cepheus Engine).

Those too are admirable systems... but I reiterate my prior position:  I don't think ANY of these are what the OP needs; what the OP's niece needs!

The OP's niece needs an easier-entry to D&D5e, which her friends at school are playing.  She does not need to get some newfangled game that nobody else plays, need to learn it on her own, then need to "sell" the idea to her friends, then need to teach them the new game...

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by g33k

[ThornPlutonius]

14 hours ago, g33k said:

[snip]

The OP's niece needs an easier-entry to D&D5e, which her friends at school are playing.  She does not need to get some newfangled game that nobody else plays, need to learn it on her own, then need to "sell" the idea to her friends, then need to teach them the new game...

 

You are absolutely correct.

[Agentorange]

11 hours ago, ThornPlutonius said:

 

 

On 10/15/2022 at 4:51 AM, g33k said:

 

 

On 10/15/2022 at 4:51 AM, g33k said:

I am *really* liking (most of) what I've seen of DwD Studios' "d00lite" system.

Those too are admirable systems... but I reiterate my prior position:  I don't think ANY of these are what the OP needs; what the OP's niece needs!

The OP's niece needs an easier-entry to D&D5e, which her friends at school are playing.  She does not need to get some newfangled game that nobody else plays, need to learn it on her own, then need to "sell" the idea to her friends, then need to teach them the new game...

 

.This is correct ! However we have good news. One of the teachers at the  school is setting up a beginners D'n'D campaign for people who have never played before or have very little knowledge of the game and my niece is part of the group, so she should pick it up.

That said she has asked me to bring every RPG rule book I own when I go up to visit at Christmas so she can look through them......😊

[Bill the barbarian]

9 minutes ago, Agentorange said:

That said she has asked me to bring every RPG rule book I own when I go up to visit at Christmas so she can look through them......😊

Mr. Suitcase lives again!

🙂

 

[Agentorange]

3 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Mr. Suitcase lives again!

🙂

 

Good thing she didn't ask for all the supplements as well. I'm not sure i could get them all in the car 😆

Or a small van for that matter.......

Edited October 16, 2022 by Agentorange
extra comment

[g33k]

16 hours ago, Agentorange said:

Good thing she didn't ask for all the supplements as well. I'm not sure i could get them all in the car 😆

Or a small van for that matter.......

Peas in a pod, you & I ...

[Questbird]

On 10/16/2022 at 4:58 PM, Agentorange said:

 

 

.This is correct ! However we have good news. One of the teachers at the  school is setting up a beginners D'n'D campaign for people who have never played before or have very little knowledge of the game and my niece is part of the group, so she should pick it up.

That said she has asked me to bring every RPG rule book I own when I go up to visit at Christmas so she can look through them......😊

 

 

What about Blueholme, our own @Vile Traveller's adaptation of Holmes Blue basic D&D, and Blueholme Journeymanne, its extension (disclaimer: I was a backer)? Holmes wrote very clearly and my recollection is that this one evokes his style nicely, while still being recognisably 'D&D' and therefore easily transferable to 5e. 'Prentice' is pay what you want of DrivethruRPG, and Journeymanne (which goes up to 20th level) is not pricey.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/109409/BLUEHOLMETM-Prentice-Rules

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/208800/BLUEHOLMETM-Journeymanne-Rules

I don't know if those are available in printed format though. You could ask @Vile Traveller😃.

The Character record sheet might hint at the readability level: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/218957/BLUEHOLMETM-Character-Records?manufacturers_id=3982

Edited November 18, 2022 by Questbird

[Guest Vile Traveller]

Oops, a bit late to reply! 

Edited November 18, 2022 by Vile Traveller

[g33k]

On 10/15/2022 at 10:58 PM, Agentorange said:

...

That said she has asked me to bring every RPG rule book I own when I go up to visit at Christmas so she can look through them......😊

A suggestion ... pre-engage her in a little chat about what she likes, what she might like different.

In addition to "every rule book" ... bring a starter/quickstart adventure or two, with pre-gen's, and run a game for her + [friends and/or family] .

🤡