Running a "cult promotion"

[Soccercalle]

Some of my PCs are reaching rune level and I am thinking about the best way to play their promotion. I dont want it to be just a technical step but something that can be role played. There is a lot of good stuff out there about running initiations (especially in SiS and CotD). But I can't find anything about rune levels. So I guess that I will play it out myself. 

According to the core rules Vasana is made a Wind Lord by Argrath. So I presume that you need to find a senior rune level NPC to preside over the promotion ceremony. Like a senior Rune Lord Priest or a Chief Priest. 

This will probably take place in Pavis in 1620-21 and the cults are Orlanth/Vinga, Humakt and Odayla. I may find something special for the Odayla PC as it is a quite rare cult in Prax. But who is the senior Humakti Swords in Pavis during that time? @Jeffis mentioning an old Colymar tribesman named Vargast in a FB post and we have Derenx the Handsome in the Pavis book. Vargast could be the best fit as the PCs are Colymar in exile.

[mfbrandi]

The Hero Wars write-up of Odayla in Storm Tribe has this for becoming an Odayla devotee:

Spoiler

The hunter and the Great Bear both know when the time has arrived for the Bear Hunt. It is by far the most challenging hunting quest the Odaylan will ever experience, so narrators should describe it accordingly. The hunt repeats important quests, challenges, and disasters of the hunter’s past, and ends with him meeting the Great Bear, which he must slay. When he breathes in its life, he finds that he has killed himself, for he is the Great Bear. Although the worshipper knows this, the actual realization of his own death is a powerful experience that transforms him. When he returns wearing his own bear skin he is a devotee, with full access to Odayla’s magic.

Good luck with playing that out!

Edited October 10, 2022 by mfbrandi
italics

[French Desperate WindChild]

bravo 🙂

 

As @mfbrandi said, Odayla needs the great hunt and the great hunt victory to gain the rune level status

for the other cults i don't know any reference. So, for me, and that's just my opinion, based on nothing else than my ideas :

 

Who decides ?

a) a chief priest may promote a priest or a rune lord (if the status exists).

b) A rune lord (or a chief rune lord, in a structured organization, i imagine Humakt not Orlanth for example) may promote a rune lord but not a priest

 

When ?

a) when a position is open (the old one retired or died)

b) when a new position is created (for example, the conquest of new pavis, there are room in the big rubble and in the army to allow Argrath to create new positions)

c) when the god says "you must"

 

How ?

a) your responsible requests you a big, heroic test, but it must be more than a test, it must be usefull for the community

- conquer something (lead a company to the attack of this word honorably, when you will be back victoriously, I will see a new Sword

- destroy something (enter the snike pipe nest, defeat the chaotic big monster / relic and you will be promote

- get back with a holy piece from a heroquest, ... (could be a peaceful quest for non warrior cult )

- obtain something important from some hostile people (get an alliance with the elves, create a market in kralori, ...)

 

b) after a big deed

- you discovered something lost for a while, something very important ( wind sword for Orlanth  ? the truth book tome 12 for LM ? ...)

- you obtained something important from some hostile people  (same than a) but, this time, that was done by your own decision, without any request)

- you have served with great fervor devotion loyalty the temple / the community leader for a while and (you ask or the leader propose you) the new position ( that was the option for the wind lord in the white bull campaign)

- you conquer by yourself a new territory,  now ask the priest to promote you in the cult

- you created a shrine, and know you have enough followers to have a little temple, find a chief priest somewhere, swear loyalty and obedience, you will be promoted

 

just few exemples

 

[EricW]

Every cult connection is a hero quest. So to become a Wind Lord I would suggest you need to pay homage to something important from Orlanth’s life, like kill a dangerous monster threatening the tribe.

Edited October 10, 2022 by EricW

[dumuzid]

9 hours ago, Soccercalle said:

Some of my PCs are reaching rune level and I am thinking about the best way to play their promotion

We did this Saturday in my campaign, my PC group's Heler initiate was elevated to God Talker.  They wrote up a myth of Heler (more specifically of Heler's offspring Rainbow Girl), the group did the legwork of putting on a this-world heroquest of the myth by way of liturgical dance, and since everyone hit their marks during the performance it deepened into a Gods World quest that revealed new elements of the myth to the participants.  It was something we'd been building up to for a while, and just one of several major religious rites going on at Ayos, Fronela on Earth Fertility Waterday, 1627.

[Darius West]

16 hours ago, Soccercalle said:

Some of my PCs are reaching rune level and I am thinking about the best way to play their promotion. I dont want it to be just a technical step but something that can be role played. There is a lot of good stuff out there about running initiations (especially in SiS and CotD). But I can't find anything about rune levels. So I guess that I will play it out myself. 

Being given Rune status is very political.  You may have dozens of initiates who qualify, but few are chosen.  Each community will likely have relatively few rune levelers, as they represent a major economic investment by a community.  Each community MUST provide their rune levels a place of worship to manage, and land for their upkeep.  This often comes with the added cost of iron equipment.

There is an inevitable nepotism associated with initiating someone to rune level.  The fact is, the clan ring will invariably give preference to their direct kin.  The chief will want their son or daughter to be the next Orlanth Thunderous/Adventurous rune level and follow in their footsteps, and likewise your Lorekeeper, your Merchant, etc.  Humakti solve this issue with a series of duels among those who qualify, in order to retain a system of meritocracy.  Likewise, rune status for worshippers of deities of less influence are likely to be less nepotistic, but not without nepotism. 

Understand that every placement of a close family member into a position of power cements the entire family's fortune just that bit more within the clan hierarchy.  It is something that needs to be contested.  It is perfectly reasonable that duels might be fought over this issue, or there may be a waiting list, or any appointment must be decided on by the Clan/Tribe/City Ring.  Relatively few temples are truly independent and able to make their own appointments, but even there (perhaps moreso) issues of merit versus nepotism will be argued out.  Promises may need to be made, bribes paid, backs scratched, gods consulted.  Who knows?  Truly backwards clans where mob rule is the norm may even have something as despicable as a popular vote 😄.

[mfbrandi]

6 hours ago, Darius West said:

Being given Rune status is very political … There is an inevitable nepotism … bribes paid, backs scratched, gods consulted.  Who knows?  Truly backwards clans where mob rule is the norm may even have something as despicable as a popular vote

But is all this ‘corruption’ going on to pick between people who have already passed the magical/spiritual tests, or is it undercutting it?

If the former, do we have a bunch of people with all the ‘magical’ benefits of rune status (they have gotten their ‘in’ with god) but no sinecure, pile of blessed iron, and full in tray to go with it (no parish, no flock)? That would suit some PCs just fine.

Or are there a bunch of rune levels in name only, with the sinecure & the admin but untouched by their deity? (One can imagine a ‘real’ priest stood in the wings to make sure services pass off according to the script.) This offers humour, so I like it.

As a third option, corruption & mundane actions may control who gets to take the magical tests in the first place. For some cults — where access to cult hardware & staff is necessary even to begin the quest — this would work fine. For less structured worship — e.g. Odayla — it would seem that it is all between the solitary hunter and their god, not mediated by any cult bureaucrats. Any sufficiently large and bent cult may develop its Martin Luthers/experimental heroquesters … We all like a good schism, right?

[Kloster]

2 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

Or are there a bunch of rune levels in name only, with the sinecure & the admin but untouched by their deity? (One can imagine a ‘real’ priest stood in the wings to make sure services pass off according to the script.) This offers humour, so I like it.

This could perhaps be possible for Rune Lords, but not for Priests, as they have to lead offices, teach spells and have other activities that need the direct contact with the god, including initiation of new members.

[mfbrandi]

11 minutes ago, Kloster said:

not for Priests, as they have to lead offices … need the direct contact with the god

Hence the “person behind the curtain” doing the real magic while the over-promoted nephew/niece stands at the front muttering and waving their arms ineffectually. In spell classes, the teaching assistant will be carrying a lot of the weight: “Ignore the chinless wonder; try it like this. Better?”

“The minotaurs are attacking? Send the rune lord. They have 300% in filing and sharpen quill, I am sure.” There will be blood on the sand, pretty soon, but the niece/nephew won’t survive to be awarded both ears and the tail. Or she will, having got a lot of other people needlessly gored — think every first-time out US Cavalry lieutenant on the silver screen. You see? Comedy gold!

[Squaredeal Sten]

15 hours ago, dumuzid said:

....  They wrote up a myth of Heler (more specifically of Heler's offspring Rainbow Girl), ......it deepened into a Gods World quest that revealed new elements of the myth to the participants.....

Publish it!  We have a shortage of usable myths.  I wouldn't know where to find even one for Heler.

[French Desperate WindChild]

2 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

As a third option, corruption & mundane actions may control who gets to take the magical tests in the first place. For some cults — where access to cult hardware & staff is necessary even to begin the quest — this would work fine. For less structured worship — e.g. Odayla — it would seem that it is all between the solitary hunter and their god, not mediated by any cult bureaucrats.

yes that is my opinion

but i would consider I-gm-as-the-initiate's-god (other than Odayla and those who generate a test by themselves, without priests to organize it) that maybe this initiate is now able enough, holly enough, devoted enough to be rune level, even if no priest wants to organize the "test"

of course for that, the player-as-the-initiate should have done a lot of things without any transaction, sacrificing pow AND time AND cow AND maybe a part of their body  for "no personal gain" but to save a community OR to the god's glory , etc. Of course it adds new "requirements" devotion 90+, maybe masterize some god's runes at 90+

[mfbrandi]

1 hour ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

We have a shortage of usable myths.  I wouldn't know where to find even one for Heler.

Well, if you are happy living in Monomythland, you can just recycle bits of the Yelm–Orlanth–Time story with Heler in a leading rôle. “Heler drowned the bright Emperor, then invaded the sky” (Storm Tribe, p. 75) sort of thing — I am not recommending that, mind, but isn’t it — wasn’t it? — the accepted way to get mythology by the yard at knock-down prices? Wikipedia even gives you a handy template:

Cynical, moi?

What’s in previews of the Cults Book(s)?

[jajagappa]

8 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

I wouldn't know where to find even one for Heler.

The serpent who invades the sky, tricks the the sky denizens who try to stop it, and turns the sky blue.

The ram who invades the air and creates great herds of sheep, until Orlanth blows them away (or has Yinkin corral them for his use).

As noted above, the water which found its way into the sky and drowned Yelm.

[Darius West]

22 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

But is all this ‘corruption’ going on to pick between people who have already passed the magical/spiritual tests, or is it undercutting it?

Calling it corruption may be going a bit far, given the situation.  It is more like intense political competition, where people with a home ground advantage are more likely to "win".  Remember there are no laws stopping nepotism, or preferential treatment.

18 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

Well, if you are happy living in Monomythland, you can just recycle bits of the Yelm–Orlanth–Time story with Heler in a leading rôle. “Heler drowned the bright Emperor, then invaded the sky” (Storm Tribe, p. 75) sort of thing — I am not recommending that, mind, but isn’t it — wasn’t it? — the accepted way to get mythology by the yard at knock-down prices? Wikipedia even gives you a handy template:

Cynical, moi?

What’s in previews of the Cults Book(s)?

The Hero's journey doesn't have enough political back-biting, pointless bureaucracy, nepotism, and mind numbing boredom.

[hipsterinspace]

19 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Publish it!  We have a shortage of usable myths.  I wouldn't know where to find even one for Heler.

Hi, I'm the player/author in question. For anything Orlanthi I highly recommend plumbing the Stafford Library's Book of Heortling Mythology and Land of Ten Thousand Goddesses for ideas (even if it isn't entirely canon and the myths are archaic for the Third Age). I'm also a big believer in the idea that if you can't find something interesting, make something up! I drew up my own very non-canon myth about a divine messenger (that there's almost no published material about) based on a few different influences because it fits with what the character I play does—diplomacy and communication—and how she manifests her devotion to her god(dess). It was fun writing it and even more fun running it with the group, and I can definitely see myself writing another myth to heroquest at the next big milestone, probably marriage if she can find a nice gal to settle down with.

Here's the text of the myth in a spoiler so it doesn't dominate the thread:

Spoiler

Rainbow Girl’s First Message

In the great darkness, in the moment Heler was frozen into ice by the vengeful thrice-defeated Ui, two children came into being. The first was Ereltherol, the fierce Black Ram, boon companion of Vinga and protector of Voriof, born from the last droplet of Heler fallen to earth. The second was the beautiful Rainbow Girl, messenger between feuding gods and mortals alike, born from Heler’s last gasp mixing with the dying light.

She first sought to bring news of Heler’s freezing to their beloved mortal children and ask for their aid and devotion, but they had already been set upon by Ui’s host. She resolved to aid her mortal kin but first had to flee, she was not a warrior and was helpless alone against the onslaught of the twisted gods and demons.

Rainbow Girl sought out the greatest one, to whom Heler was closest, Orlanth, their sworn brother, friend, lover, and king. When he learned of Heler’s fate, the dismayed Storm let out a bellowing crack loud enough to split the middle air again, striking fear into enemies and rallying scattered thanes and sons, but all the sound and fury could not yet save Rainbow Girl’s mortal siblings.

Next, Rainbow Girl went in search of the bounteous Earth Sisters, Ernalda and Esrola, friends and sometime wives and lovers to the Blue God. When they heard that Heler would not be visiting anymore, the sisters cried out their lamentations and danced the sacred dances over the earth with Rainbow Girl, and while their dances and songs nourished the weary plants and beasts in the darkness, Rainbow Girl still couldn’t see a way to halt the demons’ frenzy.

Still in search of help, Rainbow Girl followed her stream of tears to where they met with the bodies of Heler’s kin, their long-estranged family. While the sea gods had wept and raged for the loss of Heler once before, when Heler was captured by the sky and eloped to the air, they were now stirred to ever greater heights of frenzy when they heard of the monsters who had taken the rivers of returning rains, the familiar embrace of their lost kin. Because their churning wrath was terrifying and single-minded, she knew she could not ask them to help her mortal kin for fear of drowning them beneath the sea’s fury.

Growing desperate, Rainbow Girl searched the paths of the sky for Heler’s erstwhile rivals and captors, the vengeful and aloof gods of fire and light. They greeted her coldly and without ceremony, wearied by the loss of their Bright Emperor and the onslaught of the darkness. When they heard of Heler’s plight, they spoke of their own struggles, that without the emperor’s blaze in the sky they could not marshal the heat to melt the ice imprisoning Heler and were powerless to stop the depredations of Ui in a faraway land.

At last, without other options, Rainbow Girl screamed into the growing darkness, lamenting her uselessness, her failure to find aid for her kin. As she cried out, she was surprised to receive an answer. She was greeted kindly by shadow, a presence she had not yet noticed. The shadow spoke to her words of consolation, revealing that he was everywhere and had seen both her efforts and the results, that she should be proud. He said she was wise to know that she could not save her kin alone, but that it was she who brought so many together in grief and friendship, something that he too understood the power of.

This is why Rainbow Girl travels forth from clear crystals and through the pouring storm, why she walks within the forest mists and upon ocean sprays, why she is seen moving beneath the sunlit sky and dancing over the ice, and why, where she is strongest, the routes of her many journeys cast shadows upon themselves and appear in great multiplicity.

 

[Squaredeal Sten]

A myth without a final success....that is different.  

[mfbrandi]

2 hours ago, Darius West said:

The Hero's journey doesn't have enough political back-biting, pointless bureaucracy, nepotism, and mind numbing boredom.

“No, you have to pay me the bribe and then wait six weeks for me to do something — it is part of the heroquest. Let me read you the myth, again.”

[Joerg]

2 hours ago, Darius West said:

The Hero's journey doesn't have enough political back-biting, pointless bureaucracy, nepotism, and mind numbing boredom.

It does have the Abyss...

[Squaredeal Sten]

5 hours ago, Darius West said:

....

The Hero's journey doesn't have enough political back-biting, pointless bureaucracy, nepotism, and mind numbing boredom.

That is something to work on: A LM hero's journey which exercises the skills of bureaucracy.  But I'll skip the mind numbing boredom, that is for between game sessions.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Squaredeal Sten
spelling / typing

[Darius West]

43 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

That is something to work on: A LM hero's journey which exercises the skills of bureaucracy.  But I'll slip the mind numbing boredom, that is for between game sessions.

Nah, you can do it in-game.  You just fast forward until it is over, summarize what happened (if anything), and cost the player 1d6 SAN.  Then make a humanity check to avoid frenzy. Useful spells include Summon Lawyer, Summon Accountant, and the awesome Summon Head of Department. Bureaucratic HQ FTW!

Edited October 12, 2022 by Darius West

[hipsterinspace]

As an aside, there are some genuinely very interesting LM heroquests in BoHM. 

3 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

A myth without a final success....that is different.  

The final success is still there if maybe rather ambiguous. It’s a myth of a divine messenger figure, and the story is about bringing everyone together to fight for what’s left, in their own ways, until the dawn breaks. The myth’s circumstances echo my group’s current challenges, perseverance in the Great Darkness standing in for the ceaseless violence we have witnessed on the borders of the Kingdom of War and our attempts at forming a unity army to oppose them despite their tremendous strength advantage in both men and magic.

[mfbrandi]

3 hours ago, Darius West said:

Bureaucratic HQ FTW!

Who can forget the quest to rationalize the Dewey Decimal Classification? Now the 200 division is entirely devoted to beards.

[Squaredeal Sten]

5 hours ago, hipsterinspace said:

As an aside, there are some genuinely very interesting LM heroquests in BOHM.....

BOHM?  You lost me on that acronym.  I can guess Book Of. But ??

HM"=Her Majety?  Hairy Magic?  

[jajagappa]

14 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

BOHM?

Book of Heortling Mythology - from the Stafford Library.

[Squaredeal Sten]

Oh, that's on a shelf in sight.