Keepers, do you prefer to have slain Mythos creatures dissolve or leave a corpse?

[coolAlias]

The Keeper Rulebook has an interesting bit on p207:

Quote

The easy identification of a monster takes away mystery and reveals details about the plot. Don’t let investigators get information for free. If they get closer to the thing, it is still not a deep one—it is a dark, wet shape, half-submerged, draped with seaweed, stinking like long-dead fish.

When monsters die, it is up to you whether they exhibit symptoms of  distress, simply collapse, or vanish. Mythos creatures that die often dissolve or evaporate—the noxious cloud soon replaced by a damp spot and clean air, as happened to Wilbur  Whateley in Miskatonic University’s library in The Dunwich Horror. This conveniently leaves the investigators short of physical evidence.

One particular published scenario I was thinking of running has a couple of Deep One corpses near an NPC, and it got me wondering: if at least some types of Mythos creatures sometimes leave corpses, wouldn't their bodies eventually end up in a museum somewhere and rob them of some or all of their horror? And in the particular scenario, it feels like the corpses almost completely removes that aspect of the unknown during the subsequent combat.

So to all you Keepers out there: what is your preference? Do your creatures dissolve, leave a corpse, or some mix of both? Are you consistent across scenarios, or do your creatures sometimes dissolve and sometimes leave a corpse depending on what you feel will make for a better atmosphere at the time?

[Grimmshade]

19 hours ago, coolAlias said:

The Keeper Rulebook has an interesting bit on p207:

One particular published scenario I was thinking of running has a couple of Deep One corpses near an NPC, and it got me wondering: if at least some types of Mythos creatures sometimes leave corpses, wouldn't their bodies eventually end up in a museum somewhere and rob them of some or all of their horror? And in the particular scenario, it feels like the corpses almost completely removes that aspect of the unknown during the subsequent combat.

So to all you Keepers out there: what is your preference? Do your creatures dissolve, leave a corpse, or some mix of both? Are you consistent across scenarios, or do your creatures sometimes dissolve and sometimes leave a corpse depending on what you feel will make for a better atmosphere at the time?

There are some stories where Mythos beings are actually in a museum. If it's something like a Deep One or Serpent Person, I leave the corpse. Sometimes the PC's hide it to keep others from seeing / finding it; sometimes people explain the rotting thing away as some "weird fish"; sometimes the body just disappears. For the most part, I just say people aren't willing to accept what they are seeing (and eventually decomposition takes care of the rest). I think there could be a good story from things ending up in someone's personal museum, or a side wing of some famous museum. I wrote a mythos short story of my own many years ago about this. 

Also, check out the Anatomical Guide to Lovecraftian Horrors. It's great!

Edited October 19, 2022 by Grimmshade

[svensson]

Depends on the creature, really.

But in any event, even if the creature doesn't disappear in a puff of nauseating smoke, it still leaves an unidentifiable puddle of putrescent primordial proteins. At no point would extraterrestrials or extra-dimensionals leave an identifiable corpse for forensic study.

Creatures from Earth logically would, but humans have long been conditioned not to accept the evidence of their senses. They'd rather believe in a conspiracy or hoax than accept the reality of the Deep Ones even if somebody brought back a trawler full of their corpses.

Edited October 19, 2022 by svensson

[AlHazred]

Deep One --> "Some sort of deep-sea fish or lizard. Fascinating! Reminds me of the stuff that Frenchman Professor Arronax wrote that showed up in that rag Whispers."

Serpent Person -> "This appears to be a particularly well-preserved skeleton of a large reptile, perhaps related to deinonychus. I've seen similar remains in some materials we received from a dig in Oklahoma, north of the Wichita River. Exciting to think there might be one of these stupid brute species still around!"

Edited October 19, 2022 by AlHazred

[coolAlias]

On 10/19/2022 at 11:17 AM, AlHazred said:

Deep One --> "Some sort of deep-sea fish or lizard. Fascinating! Reminds me of the stuff that Frenchman Professor Arronax wrote that showed up in that rag Whispers."

Serpent Person -> "This appears to be a particularly well-preserved skeleton of a large reptile, perhaps related to deinonychus. I've seen similar remains in some materials we received from a dig in Oklahoma, north of the Wichita River. Exciting to think there might be one of these stupid brute species still around!"

Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of science?

Oh. OH! Just, uh, the author of that one book that's kind of at the root of it all, huh? I see. I'll just be on my way then, if you don't mind... <quickly dashes for the nearest exit, but it's no use>

[SunlessNick]

Another vote for depends on the creature.

[EricW]

Both good.

"... Cursed the ground where dead thoughts live new and oddly bodied, and evil the mind that is held by no head. Wisely did Ibn Schacabao say, that happy is the tomb where no wizard hath lain, and happy the town at night whose wizards are all ashes. For it is of old rumour that the soul of the devil-bought hastes not from his charnel clay, but fats and instructs the very worm that gnaws; till out of corruption horrid life springs, and the dull scavengers of earth wax crafty to vex it and swell monstrous to plague it. Great holes secretly are digged where earth's pores ought to suffice, and things have learnt to walk that ought to crawl. ..." - The Festival, by HP Lovecraft.

In a sense it doesn't matter. Any adventurer who doesn't burn the village down after saving it is asking for trouble, in the mythos universe. And even the corpse of the creature, rotted into goo or just sitting there, could cause SAN loss and who knows what havoc. Just because it stopped moving, you can't be completely sure it can no longer cause harm - the mythos operates on rules beyond human understanding. 

 "Death is just the beginning" applies with a vengeance to the Cthulhu Mythos. Burnt ashes are more difficult to resurrect, and less likely to cause trouble - though not impossible to resurrect. And if I ever find myself in Arkham, like a real life "In the Mouth of Madness" experience, I'm not drinking the water.

Edited October 24, 2022 by EricW

[Darius West]

On 10/19/2022 at 10:05 AM, coolAlias said:

The Keeper Rulebook has an interesting bit on p207:

One particular published scenario I was thinking of running has a couple of Deep One corpses near an NPC, and it got me wondering: if at least some types of Mythos creatures sometimes leave corpses, wouldn't their bodies eventually end up in a museum somewhere and rob them of some or all of their horror? And in the particular scenario, it feels like the corpses almost completely removes that aspect of the unknown during the subsequent combat.

So to all you Keepers out there: what is your preference? Do your creatures dissolve, leave a corpse, or some mix of both? Are you consistent across scenarios, or do your creatures sometimes dissolve and sometimes leave a corpse depending on what you feel will make for a better atmosphere at the time?

It utterly depends on the creature and its physiology.  There are distinct advantages plot-wise for a GM to having the creatures leave little to no evidence, as you can't take the remains to a lab or a newspaper or the police.  We know specifically that the Mi-go dissolve, and I would imagine that other creatures likely would as well, such as Hunting Horrors, but Deep Ones leave bodies.   Leaving a body to autopsy can destroy the mystery of many of the creatures, but it can also be an opportunity for fresh horror and appalling revelations.  Autopsies reveal weaknesses too.  It is important to keep the body count skewed in the favor of plenty of dead humans.

[svensson]

I agree with DW, to a large extent. Humans are squishier than Mythos creatures and no amount of science ought to change that. Every single fight in CoC ought to keep the players on the edge of their seats. I've said in the past that there are two kinds of horror game: one where the players have a chance to defeat the bad guys and one where they don't. CoC is definitely in the latter category. The greatest victory in a properly run CoC campaign is putting off the inevitable just one more day.

I also want to reiterate humanity's great ability to ignore facts that get in the way of the cherished myths and hoaxes. In just one recent example, large numbers of people in theoretically educated countries willfully chose to ignore 200 years of scientific proof and even the evidence in their own health and well-being because some political gas bag on TV told them to. I'm talking about the anti-vaccination nonsense, of course. I don't bring this up to cause a political discussion, I'm just using a real-world example to illustrate my gaming point. That point is this: No matter how educated they are, human beings have a hard time confronting truths that disprove their 'everything is going to be OK' worldview, and this is a valuable tool for the CoC Keeper.

Any scientist who is willing to breach the wall of disbelief and actually try and use the Scientific Method on Mythos creatures is in for a whole bunch of SAN checks at the very minimum. And there are a great many Mythos creatures who's physiology defy modern scientific logic, or ANY logic for that matter. This can lead the scientists down some very dangerous mental and psychological paths. And should any player character try and share their experiences and findings with the uninitiated will find their credibility and veracity challenged at the very minimum.

[EricW]

svennson said

I agree with DW, to a large extent. Humans are squishier than Mythos creatures and no amount of science ought to change that. 

I think the science point is key. Mythos magic is science, alien science beyond human comprehension, except maybe to the very smartest humans.

And you really don’t want to expose lots of smart humans to the mythos.

”.., if superior minds were ever placed in fullest contact with the secrets preserved by ancient and lowly cults, the resultant abnormalities would soon not only wreck the world, but threaten the very integrity of the universe.…” - The Horror at Red Hook, HP Lovecraft.

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by EricW