Riposte rules: do you use them?

[icebrand]

This seems SERIOUSLY wrong. It makes combat a total mess, i tried running this as an example combat among two of my RQIII PC's to demonstrate how it worked to the group, and it was HORRIBLE.

At 150% (not that hard to come by, especially with magic) riposte rules make you roll like crazy. Since ripostes eat up the character's skill levels, high skilled characters just riposte over and over until someone dies. That means 4+ attacks per round, all riposted, all parried, in the course of 5 Dex ranks.

In the best-case-scenario, in a game without magic and with "novice" masters (or 100% cap), you get (90% characters)

DEX SR-13

Player 1 attacks (90%)

Player 2 parries & ripostes (90%)

DEX SR-12

Player 1 parries (90%) and ripostes (60%)

Player 2 parries (60%) and ripostes

Until someone fails or dies. Thing is, with 150%+ this becomes completely unmanageable!!!

[tedopon]

This seems SERIOUSLY wrong. It makes combat a total mess, i tried running this as an example combat among two of my RQIII PC's to demonstrate how it worked to the group, and it was HORRIBLE.

I use it and it's never been a problem. It's actually a separate skill in my games, though.

[vagabond]

This seems SERIOUSLY wrong. It makes combat a total mess, i tried running this as an example combat among two of my RQIII PC's to demonstrate how it worked to the group, and it was HORRIBLE.

At 150% (not that hard to come by, especially with magic) riposte rules make you roll like crazy. Since ripostes eat up the character's skill levels, high skilled characters just riposte over and over until someone dies. That means 4+ attacks per round, all riposted, all parried, in the course of 5 Dex ranks.

In the best-case-scenario, in a game without magic and with "novice" masters (or 100% cap), you get (90% characters)

DEX SR-13

Player 1 attacks (90%)

Player 2 parries & ripostes (90%)

DEX SR-12

Player 1 parries (90%) and ripostes (60%)

Player 2 parries (60%) and ripostes

Until someone fails or dies. Thing is, with 150%+ this becomes completely unmanageable!!!

I fail to see the problem. The riposte rules are supposed to reflect the skill of a master swordsman, and your example definitely shows what happens when two such masters meet in a duel. Plus, with the cumulative -30% with each action, the next set of ripostes/parries occurs at 30%, the next at 1%. Which, again, models things well - one hole in the defense or mistake, and the fight is over.

Optionally, you could always rule one riposte per opponent per round. So, player 1 hits, player 2 parries and ripostes, player 1 parries the riposte and turns a riposte back, and now player two can only parry since he already used his riposte. This gives the players a little bit of tactical choice since they can withhold their parry until they feel it is most advantageous to use it (i.e. when their opponent's parry has been lowered due to prior use, or their opponent has no ripostes left).

Ian

[tedopon]

Optionally, you could always rule one riposte per opponent per round. So, player 1 hits, player 2 parries and ripostes, player 1 parries the riposte and turns a riposte back, and now player two can only parry since he already used his riposte. This gives the players a little bit of tactical choice since they can withhold their parry until they feel it is most advantageous to use it (i.e. when their opponent's parry has been lowered due to prior use, or their opponent has no ripostes left).

Ian

That's similar to how I handle it, but since I've made Parry/Riposte a skill, it's governed by the iterative uses when over 50% rule.

[vagabond]

Optionally, you could always rule one riposte per opponent per round. So, player 1 hits, player 2 parries and ripostes, player 1 parries the riposte and turns a riposte back, and now player two can only parry since he already used his riposte. This gives the players a little bit of tactical choice since they can withhold their parry until they feel it is most advantageous to use it (i.e. when their opponent's parry has been lowered due to prior use, or their opponent has no ripostes left).

Ian

Turns out, this is the official rule from Elric!/SB5 - "Not more than once in a round per combatant, a critical parry allows a riposte to be made with the weapon (or shield) that didn't parry."

I had forgotten that one could only riposte with a critical parry - that also lessens the chances of it happening.

Ian

[icebrand]

Turns out, this is the official rule from Elric!/SB5 - "Not more than once in a round per combatant, a critical parry allows a riposte to be made with the weapon (or shield) that didn't parry."

I had forgotten that one could only riposte with a critical parry - that also lessens the chances of it happening.

Ian

As far as i can remember, there were no specials on Elric! just 10% crits, so that would translate to a special on BRP (it it how i ad-hoced it)

[vagabond]

Elric! had Impales (roll of 01), Criticals (20% of chance), Success, Failure, and Fumbles (99 & 00).

Ian

[Chaot]

Just for clarification, you are referring to the rules from Elric!/SB5, right? They're part of my preferred BRP flavor.

V is right, they occur once a round and only on a critical parry. It's also with the off hand weapon, which tends to have a lower skill. There's a definite skill level sweet spot for them. Two attacks with your opponent parrying one at a -30% can turn to a significant advantage. In my experience it runs down a bit like this.

Beginning Characters

Two weapon fighters get their off hand weapon at half their main weapon skill. I've always thought it implicit that when someone decides to go two weapon, a new skill is started, as there are two weapon NPCs in the book (Moonglum jumps to mind) in which the same weapon types have are used but their skill is pretty equivalent. However, I've also extended the courtesy to my players that that an off hand weapon of the same type as the main weapon has a minimum of half the main weapon's base skill. I find that when a Player's main weapon reaches a skill level where they stop seeing a huge increase in effectiveness (and when criticals become relatively easy to achieve), they start concentrating on bringing their off hand weapon skill level up.

Shields work on completely separate skills, so it takes more investment at starting levels to use a shield. Benefits of a shield is that it gives you superior protection if you succeed in parrying with it and that it still does some minimal damage in a Riposte. Knock Back is a nice addition to the mix.

There's a benefit in forgoing two weapons or sword and board for a single 2 handed weapon. You've got higher damage out put and only one skill to concentrate on. However, I think the real benefit to Riposte is in getting your opponent's parry or dodge down. You get two people who know how to fight together and you can devastate your opponents. The bruiser holds back his attacks as the dual wielder wades in. A quick flurry of blows and your opponent is operating at a -60% for their parry. The bruiser finishes the job quickly and you move on to your next opponent.