Is Mythos skill gained for each bout of madness or only when initially becoming insane?

[coolAlias]

Relevant rules text from the Keeper Rulebook:

Quote

p163, Each time an investigator reels from Mythos-induced trauma, he or she learns more of the Mythos... The first instance of Mythos-related
insanity always adds 5 points to the Cthulhu Mythos skill. Further episodes of Mythos-induced insanity (temporary or indefinite) each add 1 point to the skill.

p417, Insanity and the Cthulhu Mythos: add 5% Cthulhu Mythos skill with first bout of madness inspired by a Mythos-related event. Add 1% on subsequent occasions.

The p163 rule seems to say that a character only gains Mythos when first becoming insane, i.e. they can only gain Mythos once per period of insanity, while the p417 rule clearly contradicts that by stating it's per bout of madness, not per period of insanity.

Am I misinterpreting p163 or is it indeed contradictory? If the latter, which rule is "correct"?

As an example, in my most recent game a PC became temporarily insane after seeing the mangled corpse of their friend, which is not Mythos-inspired so Mythos skill was not increased. However, later, another bout of madness was triggered by a Mythos creature, and this being the first such instance, I gave the character +5% to their Mythos skill. Later still, they had a few more bouts of madness, again all from Mythos creatures, and I awarded +1% for each of those as well.

Is that the correct interpretation (i.e. p417 is correct), or would this character not have gained any Mythos skill at all since the period of insanity was not initially caused by a Mythos creature (i.e. p163 is correct)?

[Escher_Projection]

Interesting.  It seems reasonable to reconcile them by intepreting the "reels from..." as pointing specifically to a bout of madness,  rather than entering temporary or indefinite insanity, because (1) a character who is temporarily insane but in the underlying insanity state rather than a bout isn't reeling at the moment, but is vulnerable to it; (2) it allows taking into account a mix of Mythos- and non-Mythos triggers; and (3) it neatly reconciles them without requiring one to overrule the other.  😛

One's fragile mind gets shattered by knowledge that deeply conflicts with his mundane worldview and forever imprints upon him awareness of things that perhaps he'd rather wish that he didn't know.  That the day started with a horrifying but seemingly mundane sight doesn't stop that terrible truth from sinking in.  Seems reasonable to me.

[svensson]

I can't imagine why it would be.

Each new exposure to the Mythos or each new realization might cause a rise in the Mythos skill, but not continuing bouts of madness.

At least not logically. And I'm well aware that 'Mythos' and 'logic' are two very different concepts 😁

[coolAlias]

7 hours ago, svensson said:

I can't imagine why it would be.

Each new exposure to the Mythos or each new realization might cause a rise in the Mythos skill, but not continuing bouts of madness.

At least not logically. And I'm well aware that 'Mythos' and 'logic' are two very different concepts 😁

I'm not sure I follow - bouts of madness are short-term events triggered by exposure to the Mythos and other Sanity-reducing things, and you can suffer many distinct bouts of madness during a period of insanity.

It seems perfectly logical to me that any Mythos exposure triggering a bout of madness could result in gaining more Mythos knowledge, and that tracks with the rule on p417.

That said, my question isn't one of logic, but one of reconciliation between the rules on p163 and p417; in the words of the perfectly-portrayed Mr. Gibbs: "Reason's got nothing to do with it." 😉

[Mike M]

Go with:

 

p163, Each time an investigator reels from Mythos-induced trauma, he or she learns more of the Mythos... The first instance of Mythos-related
insanity always adds 5 points to the Cthulhu Mythos skill. Further episodes of Mythos-induced insanity (temporary or indefinite) each add 1 point to the skill.

The note on p417 is a summary that wasn't worded perfectly - but was meant to say the same as P163. 

Thus, "first" can be temporary or indefinite  - whichever happens first. 

 

[coolAlias]

10 hours ago, Mike M said:

Go with:

 

p163, Each time an investigator reels from Mythos-induced trauma, he or she learns more of the Mythos... The first instance of Mythos-related
insanity always adds 5 points to the Cthulhu Mythos skill. Further episodes of Mythos-induced insanity (temporary or indefinite) each add 1 point to the skill.

The note on p417 is a summary that wasn't worded perfectly - but was meant to say the same as P163. 

Thus, "first" can be temporary or indefinite  - whichever happens first.

Thanks for the clarification, Mike.

So in the event an investigator goes insane from a non-Mythos event, they are effectively barred from gaining any Mythos skill in this fashion until their underlying insanity has been resolved (i.e. in 1d10 hours for temporary or several months later for indefinite)?

For those with zero or no Mythos, that feels like a curse, but for those with high Mythos, that might be a blessing - make yourself insane via "normal" means before facing the Mythos so your already frayed Max SAN can catch a break! Lol.

[EricW]

One theme which re-occurs in H. P. Lovecraft's books is the bouts of insanity are often functional. One of my favourite examples is "Under the Pyramids" by H.P.Lovecraft and Harry Houdini, in which the insane flight through an impossible labyrinth leads the protagonist to safety. So in a sense that moment of insanity is also a moment of clarity, a brief period during which the human mind can function at a level which offers a slim possibility of surviving whatever horror they have encountered. 

In game terms, maybe they all rolled a special or something, but each "bout of madness" which helps the victim survive, teaches the victim that madness works better than sanity in some circumstances. And every time it happens, it gets a little easier to go mad the next time.

Edited November 7, 2022 by EricW