Mobile Orlanth/Lightbringer Temples & Shrines

[jajagappa]

23 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

But didn't Urrrggh the Ugly worship gold and Pinchining coming back to life/being reunited with mundane form was a result of said worship.

Urrgh was on a heroquest in the Underworld at the time, if I recall.  Yes, he did pray to his golden wheel.  I do not believe he ever knew of the result before his death.  We do not know who or what "answered" his prayer, or how it resulted in Pinchining's return (and subsequent arrival among the giants).  We do not know if any of Urrgh's companions (who later disposed of his gold) ever had any knowledge of what he did or what the result was.  

I'd interpret his prayer as resulting in a limited Resurrection.  It either reconnected Pinchining's dead spirit to the body of a Gold Wheel, or awoke his sleeping spirit within the specific wheel it was in.  Likely that Gold Wheel was in possession of Gonn Orta, hence his connection with the giant baby.

 

[Squaredeal Sten]

On 11/16/2022 at 10:39 PM, Erol of Backford said:

I suppose that is correct but I was thinking on the troop of baboons being the "mobile shrine" combined with their ancestors all being worshipers. Could they not build a fire anywhere they had a shaman and dance?

But a shrine is a permanently sanctified place.  Not "anywhere".  Now if the shaman wants to cast Sanctify they can worship there, but it's not permanent.

[Erol of Backford]

I was initially surprised that the Globe of Authority and Scepter of Order were not holy spot artifacts but when thinking on it a bit they were manmade...

On that note, what would make one of the Humakti Gold Swords or the Wooden Sword act as a holy spot? It doesn't seem that Divine Intervention would be powerful enough to sanctify an object or would it be? if so wouldn't a lot more mobile holy spots/sanctified items be wandering around?

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

what would make one of the Humakti Gold Swords or the Wooden Sword act as a holy spot?

I think they need to be either: 1) enchanted artifacts/relics that are "permanently" sanctified; or 2) enchanted artifacts/relics that must be placed in a temporarily sanctified ground.  More likely the latter.

Like with the Wooden Sword, Humakt charged his worshippers to carry it into the heart of the enemy (i.e. the Sazdorf Ruins), and it then served as the center of the Humakt shrine there in that place (i.e. the site was sanctified for worship with the Wooden Sword as the primary relic of the shrine).

[Squaredeal Sten]

3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I was initially surprised that the Globe of Authority and Scepter of Order were not holy spot artifacts but when thinking on it a bit they were manmade...

On that note, what would make one of the Humakti Gold Swords or the Wooden Sword act as a holy spot? It doesn't seem that Divine Intervention would be powerful enough to sanctify an object or would it be? if so wouldn't a lot more mobile holy spots/sanctified items be wandering around?

We have speculated about what is necessary to create a NEW holy spot (shrine or temple) in other threads. ( besides a congregation and permission of the cult.) The hypotheses that appeal most to me include a heroquest with that goal, Or a big ceremony using magic that is not in the Red Book, not combat oriented but  known to the cults - it is just outside the scope of most adventures and a matterfor High Priests.  But a GM might reveal it.  Oh yes and you need a wyter at the time you get your congregation together.

And of course there are old holy spots where a god did something significant like eating lunch (Larnste's Table), or perhaps a Hero's tomb for a hero cult, or where the hero is associated with a god.

Or possession of a relic could be sufficient.  This really appeals to me for a mobile shrine.  

In the end this would be a nice subject for the forthcoming GM book.  Meanwhile it is a fit subject for a Jonstown Compendium piece if you have an appropriate revelation.

As for a lot more suitable relics wandering around - I suspect they would be most desired by large rich temples which would stop them from wandering.  And they won't grow on trees.  Unless they are Aldryami relics of course.

But your Glorantha might be big enough to have one or two little known. newly discovered relics, enough to power some adventures.  Look around in the corners of your mind where they might be hidden and forgotten.  

What I wonder about is what permanently  sanctified the run down Issaries shrine in Apple Lane, which appears to be a big boulder with graffiti.  I sure would like an explanation of that canon edge case.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Squaredeal Sten
Spelling, wyter, apple lane.

[Erol of Backford]

2 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

What I wonder about is what permanently  sanctified the run down Issaries shrine in Apple Lane, which appears to be a big boulder with graffiti.  I sure would like an explanation of that canon edge case.

We discussed a coin - Guilder as a relic.

Spoiler

I presume the holy of holies in the pawn shop is likely to be in Gringle's pocket... the trading post burns down but then I am sure Gringle still has his mobile holy spot.

I have a lot of far fetched ideas but they only get as far as bullet points to be used in a campaign otherwise it becomes work!

[Erol of Backford]

On 11/20/2022 at 11:59 AM, Bill the barbarian said:

I was going to mention the Teelo Nori (is it?) poor house in Pavis. Of course some of the callous might call it a front for the empire.

In very hushed tones, rumors are whispered that the Lunars have brought a secret Chaos cult into New Pavis. This cult is responsible for the string of disappearances in the city in recent weeks. Pavis: Gateway to Adventure p.270

Spoiler

Maybe what Mr. Barbarian said is true. A front for the Krarsht hidden (portable) shrine/temple sacrifices needed in the Rubble?

We know there is a Krarsht in the Rubble.

Where might the tunnels lead from inside New Pavis, under who's/which buildings besides the Teelo Nori poor house?

 Sun County.

 Are you able to use sacrificial victim's power to sanctify your portable shrine?

Could Lightbringers not also sacrifice Chaos entities and possibly use their victim's power for enchantments, sanctify spells, etc.?

Spoiler

Sun County.

 

[Squaredeal Sten]

3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

......

  Reveal hidden contents

Maybe what Mr. Barbarian said is true. A front for the Krarsht hidden (portable) shrine/temple sacrifices needed in the Rubble?

We know there is a Krarsht in the Rubble.

Where might the tunnels lead from inside New Pavis, under who's/which buildings besides the Teelo Nori poor house?

 Sun County.

Are you able to use sacrificial victim's power to sanctify your portable shrine?

.......

  Reveal hidden contents

Sun County.

 

That is a very good game mechanics  question.  The RQiG book doesn't give specific rules for humsn sacrifice.

But there is a partial example in Griffin Mountain.  It's RQ2 material but - p.191 of the Classics version shows an example but that is done at an established holy spot. not a random place that needs sanctifying.   Doing a human sacrifice at this place  casts a rune spell - but it's not Sanctify - using a fraction of the victim's POW.  The next step of the ceremony rewards the priest's sac of (what might be either POW or RP in RQiG) with a return based on victims' PoW.  

What do I make of this? What is  relevant to the current question is that the sacrifice does NOT power a Sanctify.  

So although the example needs an update to RQiG for clarity, it appears to me to indicate that

(1) you can't power your Sanctify with the sacrifice, but instead the priest needs to start the magical sequence.

(2) the rewards come to the priest on the back end.  

Whether it is the location or the ceremony that makes that return possible is not clear.  But I think it is primarily the location because if it's not then why journey to this out of the way spot?  (Except of course that this makes the adventure's plot work.)   Yet the text does indicate a ceremony is necessary, so you can't just knife someone and run off and get a magical  benefit.  

Pending an authoritative answer from Chaosium, Our Gloranthas May Vary.  

Edited November 27, 2022 by Squaredeal Sten
Spelling / typing

[soltakss]

22 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Are you able to use sacrificial victim's power to sanctify your portable shrine?

Almost certainly yes.

Spoiler

In our Dorastor Campaign, the Adventurers found a Krarsht Egg, which when planted hatched into a Krarsht Temple and linked to the nearest Krarsht Temple. What did the Adventurers do with it? Well, they did the only sensible thing, they visited the Red Moon and planted the Krarsht Egg in a secret basement. It hatched, creating a Krarsht Temple, and tunnelled through the air to join to the nearest Krarsht Temple. The instigator of the plan, a Wind Lord called Brankist Farlow, who happened also to be a Thanatar Hero, became a Krarsht Hero for that deed. 

Cue Squirrel Girl comments ...

 

[Erol of Backford]

Do the Stormbull followers not glorify him by slaying Chaos? Is that zealotry not the same as Chaos like Broo doing their normal daily scheduled activities including sacrificing at places like Chaos Holy Ground? How is it so different?

I suppose its a bit like tapping Chaos as a means to an end?

What sorcerers would think badly on tapping Chaos especially when activating or to consecrate a new shrine or temple?

Of course the Heortlanders would bake a loaf of bread in the shape of a goat-man (and then eat it) in lieu of actually sacrificing one on an Ivisible-God altar?

I keep going back to a certain shrine that used spirits of the sacrificed victims to bump the shrine to a temple status in regardes to the number of worshipers. Again that's not to far off the mark for the Baboons and summoned ancestors bumping up the "worship participant" numbers/totals to regain divine spells. (Sorry for being all over the place here.)