Hunting Cults and Missile Spells

[Darius West]

I'm not reading a lot about the main way humans hunt successfully, namely TRAPS!

Whether snares, deadfalls, pits, or whatever, traps are the best way to catch game.  You literally set them up, cover your scent, wander off, and wait for the screaming to start.

Forget rune magic and who can turn into what.  Forget missile weapons.  A well-placed and undetectable trap is where it is at.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Darius West

[whitelaughter]

The other efficient way for a lone human to take a large prey animal is a low cliff, say 6-8 ft.

Annoy the animal. (Yes, it appears that there is a reason humans are inherently annoying)

Flee from the animal over the low cliff. You can land, and then keep running.

Being much larger than you, the fleeing animal can't slow down and goes over the cliff - and being larger than you, goes splat.

I have been told by a very unreliable source that we know this because the fossils of an early hunter, complete with broken ankle, were found intermingled with the fossils of the bear that was chasing him; while I've seen no evidence of that, the basic technique seems sound. The good part of the strategy is that if the plan doesn't work, you are nowhere near the critter; it has either given up chasing you or turned away from the cliff.

[whitelaughter]

13 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Increasing CHA through deeds is doable, but the rules are pretty clear it has to be about leadership. Save the community through a harsh winter, win the day by beating the enemy Champion, or lead the defence against Broos, that should work.

Most hunting is done in groups, leading a force against a large prey animal would require teamwork. If the Odaylan is the leader, and in competition against another group? Seems to meet the rules criteria.

[French Desperate WindChild]

On 11/19/2022 at 7:36 PM, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Good point.  Little of this seems to have made it to the RQG rules.

that's why I now use rqg material I have (not the gods, unfortunately) to understand the glorantha I play.

What was written decades ago may be still good or should be forgotten (to understand rqg background I mean, of course some may stay in antoher version if it fits their taste better than rqg)

in all cases, for me, if two "rules" contradict themselves, I take rqg as primary

 

 

9 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Am I missing something?  The Bear can't parry and has 4 points of armor.  (Plus any magical armor).  I guess Odaylans could be o.k. if they have a high Dodge.

@HreshtIronBorne  My Vingan warrior gets STR into the 40s when she is all mo-foed up.  But she uses an iron sword with perhaps some bladesharp.

your vinga has a big story probably, she did not start with all her powers and gears. You may  meet a odaylan with a lot of experience, some heroquest powers and tattoos, enchants, spirits,  ...  that grants other advantages

it is hard to compare two characters at different steps of their experience, ,  with differents companions able or not to buff the pc,  and with different GM more or less generous, interpreting the world differently

 

 

[Scotty]

9 hours ago, svensson said:

I think is might be a valid rules question to @Scotty:

What is the extent of the transformation when a spell caster uses Transform Self?

See the spell description, Red Book of Magic page 100.

9 hours ago, svensson said:

- Does the caster lose their intelligence?

No. 

9 hours ago, svensson said:

- Do the caster's senses change into the 'semi-divine animal's'?

All the normal abilities of the animal become usable by the target for the spell’s duration.

9 hours ago, svensson said:

- Can they cast spells while in animal form?

Yes. If the others transform spells allow.

9 hours ago, svensson said:

- Do they count as 'were-animals' for damage?

No.

9 hours ago, svensson said:

- How is skill use [Dodge and Parry primarily] effected?

Transform self, changes neither of these. It's the other transform spells that may do so.

eg Bears Strength: doubling the target’s natural STR (above species maximum), which also boosts their damage bonus and Agility and Manipulation skill bonuses.

Note that most adventurers who use transform self will only be able to use their natural weapons.

[whitelaughter]

On 11/22/2022 at 8:45 AM, svensson said:

Well hunters start with very poor armor, so anything that adds to their survivability is a Good Thing.

What's more, in most parties the hunter is the 'sneaky guy' [cuz, duh] so adding physical armors that decrease his Move Silently isn't optimal. Most players try and balance the two... enough armor to prevent an instant-kill by an unaugmented weapon but not enough to severely impede his work. By removing his armor and casting Bear's Skin, it usually results in a net gain in AP and the penalty for SIZ vs armor tends to remain the same. So I can see the utility of Bear's Skin. [snip on target comments on Claws]

It's only bronze that drops your Move Silently though. Layered leather, coirboilli and turtleshell is comparatively cheap, Armor of 4 to 5, and no penalty.

Bear's Skin is granting you some temporary HPs, armor, and possibly some damage bonus or improved SR, but likely with penalties to stealth and agility:

Unless your SIZ is 15, you are reducing your SIZ strike rank by 1.

SIZ      Agility          Stealth        HPs

8/14    -                  +5/-5%         -1/+1

9/15     -                    0/-5%         0/+1

10/16    -                   0/-5%         0/+1

11/17  -5%                 0/-10%        0/+2

12/18 -5%                 0/-10%         0/+2

13/19 -5%                 -5/-10%       +1/+2

14/20 -5%                 -5/-10%       +1/+2

15/21 -10%                 -5/-15%       +1/+3

16/22 -10%                 -5/-15%       +1/+3

17/23 -5/-10%           -10/-15%       +2/+3

18/24 -5/-10%           -10/-15%       +2/+3

19/25 -5/-15%           -10/-20%       +2/+4

20/26 -5/-15%           -10/-20%       +2/+4

21/27 -10/15%           -15/-20%       +3/+4

So 1-2 HPs; which may increase your HPs in each hit location by 1. These go away at spell end, but could well keep you alive long enough to get healing.

Penalties to Stealth could be worked around by sneaking up, then casting Bear's Skin; however this means neither the invocation nor any augment can be spoken aloud.

Penalties to Agility include Dodge, Jump and Swim: although you are increasing your maximum Jump distances.

Bear's Skin stacks nicely with Bear's Strength, possibly granting you a full 1D6 damage bonus. However, that requires STRx2 + SIZ >= 35 and <= 40. Then, have to consider damage bonus without Bear's Strength (frex if you are still in combat when Bear's Strength wears off, or if you are using your last Rune Point to keep yourself alive).

STR and SIZ totals above 57, between 41-50, 33-34, 25-26, or below 18 grant no additional damage bonus!

Eventually, you will hope to have a STR of 21, doubled with Bear's Strength to 42. Either training or DI can achieve this. SIZ of 8, or of 15+, will grant no additional damage bonus. SIZ 15 also doesn't increase strike rank, so a particularly unfortunate combination.

Bearing in mind that simply keeping the POW can grant you a HP for similar penalties to Agility and Manipulation, and bonuses to all other skills? For many Odaylans, this spell isn't worth having. Go the enchanted Extension on your beloved Bear's Strength spell.

As a GM, I'd be inclined to drop it to being a 1 point spell, if I wasn't so resistant to changing rules.

 

[EDIT] Can't help noticing how much more powerful, and simpler, this was in earlier editions. In boxed set (the one I know best), +6 SIZ would be a flat +3 total HP, +1 HP every location, -3% to Agility and Stealth, irrespective of the starting SIZ.

Edited November 24, 2022 by whitelaughter

[Akhôrahil]

3 hours ago, whitelaughter said:

Most hunting is done in groups, leading a force against a large prey animal would require teamwork. If the Odaylan is the leader, and in competition against another group? Seems to meet the rules criteria.

I would require very high stakes for the community, but that's far from impossible.

[Baron Wulfraed]

16 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Poster I remember from years ago.

That's the easy part of the job... What about the /collection/ team? 😱

[whitelaughter]

On 11/23/2022 at 3:29 AM, Baron Wulfraed said:

That's the easy part of the job... What about the /collection/ team? 😱

yeah, could be an issue:

[davecake]

On 11/19/2022 at 7:16 PM, svensson said:

Odayla doesn't offer any archery Rune spells

And in my games, I might let Odayla have Sureshot as an associated cult spell maybe? 
When I said

On 11/19/2022 at 7:16 PM, svensson said:

I think most hunter cults do have missile magic. Because most hunter cults are variants on Foundchild, and so have Sureshot. 

I mean Foundchild, Zong, Rasout, Dastal, Hensarava, etc are all more or less cultural variations on Foundchild. Foundchild is a very basic deity who independently reappears in many different cultures. 

[Hteph]

Haven't seen it in the tread so far (but I may have missed it) but the "common" way to use bows for hunting larger game in the dwindling number of hunter-gathering tribes in southern africa has little to do with the killing force of the bows. They really have to little stopping power for that. Instead it is expected to wound the animal, and then following it until it gives up, not so much from the blood-loss as for the exhaustion. humans greatest weapon is our extreme stamina for long distance running. Over time humans outlasts almost any other species (yes even horses) in distance. It may take a full day for a couple of hunters to finally take down an antelope, but that is meat for many meals, and meat are only a small part of their diet.

The blood from the arrow wounds also helps with tracking.