Hyalorings

[kalidor]

Hi, I am planning a new character to play in a new campaign. My character is a mix of grazelander and zebra Tribe, during his initiation I want to go farther so he can meet Hyalor (instead of heortlings second son). He will return with his truth/experience. 

Hyalor Runes fire+man+change (inspired in my actual play of six ages, I love this game, that I will use to get new revelations and create a new Tribe in Balazar) and he didn't brake hippoi just convince her to accept change and do the better of it, so "both act as one". 

Rune spells. Command horse and speak with horses, common rune spells.

Hippoi/gamari will provide fleethoof (only works on horses) 

What do you think? Any ideas/clarifications will be welcome

[Joerg]

Hyalor is the Horsebreaker, taking that from him is similar to Yelmalio overcoming Zorak Zoran at the Hill of Gold. Same with Hippoi, really - he might end up with an injured hippogriff instead. Deviations from the normal myth have consequences when taking them to this extent.

YGWV, and it might unravel other cults and cultures if this propagates.

[Richard S.]

I'd recommend making your character a Yelmalion. I believe most Hyalor worship nowadays is as a subcult of him, providing Command Horse, and Yelmalio himself can give communication with horses as a boon. Also, if you're establishing yourself in Balazar, Yelmalio already has a strong presence there. If you want to emphasize your connection to Hyalor, maybe claim kinship with the horse breaker, giving yourself high fire and beast runes.

[Runeblogger]

1 hour ago, kalidor said:

Hi, I am planning a new character to play in a new campaign.

Love the concept. It reminds me a little of a Grazelander character I created.  🙂
BTW, Six Ages rocks. I had a lot of fun playing it.

[hipsterinspace]

What I’ve seen typically casts Hyalor as functionally a hero cult of Yelmalio (or Elmal if you’re from the Enhyli or Narri clans of the Colymar tribe) offering the rune spell Command Horse as an associate.

In the core rules the Pure Horse People receive similar abilities directly through worship of Yu-Kargzant (who is the father of all horses) rather than through Hyalor as an associate like Yelmalio. The concept might work better as a Yelmalio/Elmal worshipper who isn’t from the Pure Horse Tribe, and if your group are the assumed default of Sartarites of the Colymar Tribe it might be easiest to go with someone from one of the two surviving clans of the Hyaloring Triaty (who are descended from the Hyaloring hero Kuschile).

[kalidor]

7 hours ago, Runeblogger said:

Love the concept. It reminds me a little of a Grazelander character I created.  🙂
BTW, Six Ages rocks. I had a lot of fun playing it.

That is what I want to do, use Six Ages as "ancestors references", stories, when Heroquesting in the Gods war and bring back "hidden/forgotten truths". Yes, Yelmalio is there and Ernalda... But the chieftain would be Hyalor, maybe a cult similar in structure as waha. I have to convince my GM because is a lot of work for both, so using waha cult as structure and six ages as cultural references (a clan circle of seven families, story tents, genders much more balanced than yelmites...) may work. Things didn't end well for Broyan but he returned with vingkot's tattoo and the helm and sword. This are the Hero Wars, right? 

What do you think? 

 

[hipsterinspace]

In your GM’s position I probably wouldn’t let you do that. I think it’s important to look at the social roles of the cults there. In Prax the nomads are led by the Waha Khans because their survival depends on it, Waha laid out the foundation for their way of life and now his cult works to uphold that covenant. Crucially, Waha is also a deity in his own right and not (just) a hero, he is the son of Storm Bull and Eiritha, with his own mythology and cosmological independence. In god time Rider clans, that role of tribal leader wasn’t filled by an independent cult of Hyalor, the chief was a follower of Elmal who pays respect to the cult hero Hyalor. A powerful and fully developed cult of Hyalor would probably still be a subcult of Yelmalio/Elmal.

Among the Enhyli clan of the Colymar tribe that Rider way of life continues to exist in the third age, one of the only places it does in 1625: they are a settled clan led by an Elmal chieftain, they breed and raise quality horses alongside other livestock, and they have a much more consciously equestrian religious focus than the Sun Dome’s cult of Yelmalio does. This provides some good dramatic potential, Elmal is a god in decline, with much of his cult subsumed by the Sun Domers within living memory.

There are also the Galanini of Ralios, supposedly horse hsunchen, who might fit with the agreement between man and beast rather than domination, but they’re much stranger and they lack much official material.

Edited November 25, 2022 by hipsterinspace

[JRE]

I would not allow it as a Pure Horse /Zebra hybrid, as indicated above, and because those two cultures have different mythical relationships with their mounts, but I might accept it as an unusual Grazelander or a Galanini from Ralios if you want to be "brother or sister" to your mount. If you do not wish to "break" Hippoi to serve you, the model should not be Hyalor, but to go for a more hsunchen equality with your horse, worshipping directly a free Hippoi, or more functionally, Galanin the Sun Horse, a Hsunchen evolution.

A grazelander with that attitude will normally be an outcast, but it is possible the Feathered Horse Queen would shelter such a Hippoi follower, as part of her new way. I find it very interesting that the Galanini are ruled by hereditary female chiefs, and the ruling clans can still transform into horses. Cross-pollination or mythical common ground with the FHQ? However that would still allow him to join Kargzant, just sideline Hyalor.

Command Horse would not be right in this case. I would start with a Yelmalio like gift of Speak with horses and a geas of cannot allow a horse suffer, and continue from there.

Edited November 25, 2022 by JRE

[Shiningbrow]

On 11/25/2022 at 4:39 AM, kalidor said:

My character is a mix of grazelander and zebra Tribe

I think you need to decide in what way it's "mixed".

As mentioned above, mythically in the standard Glorantha, there's no way to actually mix those two, as they're very different cults which grew out of very different situations.

However, I think what you're trying to make happen is a Pentan horse nomad (preferably from the south of Pent, where apparently they're accepting the Storm gods' cults as well as their own). They're definitely solar (Kargzant), but also sound a little Waha in social structures.

[kalidor]

40 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

I think you need to decide in what way it's "mixed".

As mentioned above, mythically in the standard Glorantha, there's no way to actually mix those two, as they're very different cults which grew out of very different situations.

However, I think what you're trying to make happen is a Pentan horse nomad (preferably from the south of Pent, where apparently they're accepting the Storm gods' cults as well as their own). They're definitely solar (Kargzant), but also sound a little Waha in social structures.

Hi, father was a zebra rider descendent from Dorasar and escaped from Pavis fall with his family, killed by Telmori while in transit to Balazar. Mother is (she still lives) a spirited former Pentan slave (kralori race) that guided the family safely to Balazar thanks to Joth Mith caravan 

Grandmothers are of zebra Tribe and remember that zebras tradition were pure horse Tribe long long time ago. Now leadership of the family belongs to these three women followers of Earth. 

That is what I mean by "mixed" 

Edited December 4, 2022 by kalidor

[Joerg]

4 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

I think you need to decide in what way it's "mixed".

As mentioned above, mythically in the standard Glorantha, there's no way to actually mix those two, as they're very different cults which grew out of very different situations.

Practically, the demand for crossbreeds (mules and "cavalry zebras") brings horse-breeders and breeders of other equines together. A low status Grazer family may do rather well selling inferior mares for crossbreeding. There are myths and heroquests about that.

 

4 hours ago, kalidor said:

Hi, father was a zebra rider descendent from Dorasar and escaped from Pavis fall with his family, killed by Telmori while in transit to Balazar. Mother is (she still lives) a spirited former Pentan slave (kralori race) that guided the family safely to Balazar thanks to Joth Mith caravan 

So the grandfather was possibly a by-blow of Dorasar (with a woman from Olgkarth's tribe?) who married a daughter of a Zebra Fort leader and may have engaged in breeding cavalry zebra crossbreeds.

 

4 hours ago, kalidor said:

Grandmothers are of zebra Tribe

Paternal grandmother is, the maternal grandmother is likely back in Pent if she survived the slave-taking, and a horse nomad. There could be an adoptive Zebra Fort grandmother, though.

4 hours ago, kalidor said:

and remember that zebras tradition were pure horse Tribe long long time ago. 

The Grazers have suppressed the memory of Alavan Argay. Derik Pol Joni may have re-taught it to the dissident Grazers that joined his new Bastard tribe.

The Pol Joni were the most likely source for horse mares for cross-breeding in Pavis.

[kalidor]

And hyalor is associated with Hwarin and Yelmalio, I wonder what spells does he gets. 

[g33k]

I think I'd go with a more-standard Cult as the "official" one you belong to, but maybe with some "misfit" elements (Harmony-Rune, "Loves Horses" Passion, possibly some of the Horse-y Yelmalian geasa... etc) aiming at the longer-term goal.

In practical terms, this lets you take a bit longer working out the "lots of work" details of the eventual God / Hero-Cult / etc (that you're aiming for).  I would expect it to be a heroquest, a shamanic vision-quest, or the like, to re-open the channels of worship... maybe even more than one such quest!

I'd look really hard -- or get the GM to, because spoilers! -- at the  <Pegasus Plateau>  adventure; not to play directly, but to mine for content.

[davecake]

10 hours ago, kalidor said:

I wonder what spells does he gets. 

The one spell we know he gets, because he grants it as an associated cult to a few cults, is Command Horse. 

[kalidor]

24 minutes ago, davecake said:

The one spell we know he gets, because he grants it as an associated cult to a few cults, is Command Horse. 

He provides Command horse to Yelmalio and hwarin but what does he get? 

[Brian Duguid]

On 11/25/2022 at 8:26 AM, hipsterinspace said:

There are also the Galanini of Ralios, supposedly horse hsunchen, who might fit with the agreement between man and beast rather than domination, but they’re much stranger and they lack much official material.

But hey! Luckily there is unofficial material available, a three-page write-up within The Children of Hykim.

On 11/25/2022 at 8:48 AM, JRE said:

If you do not wish to "break" Hippoi to serve you, the model should not be Hyalor, but to go for a more hsunchen equality with your horse, worshipping directly a free Hippoi, or more functionally, Galanin the Sun Horse, a Hsunchen evolution.

This is basically the model that I took: that the Galanini are the surviving remnants of a female-led horse culture that was never "broken" by Hyalor, and hence never subjected to the patriarchal solar worship of the many other horse peoples.

[kalidor]

Hwarin gives Shield and Yelmalio cat eyes. Hippoi/Radaylda gives Speak with horses. What do you think? 

[jajagappa]

12 hours ago, kalidor said:

and Yelmalio cat eyes

I don't see that particularly fitting with Hyalor - there's nothing to particularly suggest a nighttime affinity.  Why not provide the Yelmalio gift: Speak to Horses along with two specific geases?

[kalidor]

6 hours ago, jajagappa said:

I don't see that particularly fitting with Hyalor - there's nothing to particularly suggest a nighttime affinity.  Why not provide the Yelmalio gift: Speak to Horses along with two specific geases?

Hyalor already has it through Hippoi speak to horses {beast rune} 

[hipsterinspace]

On 12/8/2022 at 6:23 AM, kalidor said:

Hwarin gives Shield and Yelmalio cat eyes. Hippoi/Radaylda gives Speak with horses. What do you think? 

If you run with Hyalor as a hero of Yelmalio, which seems to be broadly the case in official matterial, Hyalor himself gives Command Horse, Redaylda offers Speak with Horses, and Yelm provides shield. I don’t know how Hwarin Dalthippa fits anywhere, it seems strange to associate a somewhat niche Lunar cult with the solar horse peoples.

[kalidor]

8 minutes ago, hipsterinspace said:

If you run with Hyalor as a hero of Yelmalio, which seems to be broadly the case in official matterial, Hyalor himself gives Command Horse, Redaylda offers Speak with Horses, and Yelm provides shield. I don’t know how Hwarin Dalthippa fits anywhere, it seems strange to associate a somewhat niche Lunar cult with the solar horse peoples.

Hwarin here

 

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/prosopaedia/deities/h/hwarin-dalthippa/ 

[hipsterinspace]

13 minutes ago, kalidor said:

Hwarin here

 

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/prosopaedia/deities/h/hwarin-dalthippa/ 

If I had to guess, she has associate status because she brought Saird, the ancestral land of the Hyalorings (and where Six Ages: Ride Like the Wind is set), into the Lunar Empire. Hyalor probably provides Command Horse to her cult just like he does for Yelmalio. This association probably doesn’t work outside of Saird, and you definitely wouldn’t find it among the Kargzant-worshipping Pentans (or Elmal worshipping Heortlings) who venerate Hyalor.

Edited December 9, 2022 by hipsterinspace

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, hipsterinspace said:

If I had to guess, she has associate status because she brought Saird, the ancestral land of the Hyalorings (and where Six Ages: Ride Like the Wind is set), into the Lunar Empire.

It's because Hwarin and Ingkot magically bred horses at Jillaro, and subsequently Sylilan horses are one of the preferred breeds across Genertela.

Briefly alluded to in this bit from the Redline History: "In 2/25 (1326) Sylila (expanded now to include the old lands of Rist and Dara-ni) was adopted into the Empire as a Satrapy, with Hwarin and Ingkot as founders of the first ruling clan. The acropolis of Jillaro was rebuilt and the surrounding city seemed to leap into being under the watchful eyes of the Satrap. She prepared the cities’ grounds herself, and her calm beauty is apparent. The lands around the city were made to grow a luxuriant clover to forage Ingkot’s favorite steeds, and so the city is sometimes called Jillaro-of-the-Prince’s Green."

And then the Guide p.321: "These blessed grasslands (as well as a magical pasture north of the city called the New Green) provide the unique sustenance and surroundings necessary to breed the remarkable Jillaran racers, the fastest horse in Glorantha."

 

[Shiningbrow]

On 12/9/2022 at 8:21 AM, jajagappa said:

I don't see that particularly fitting with Hyalor - there's nothing to particularly suggest a nighttime affinity.  Why not provide the Yelmalio gift: Speak to Horses along with two specific geases?

I've never seen the requirement for an Associate's spell as being based on the mythology of the receiving deity/cult - but always on the giving deity/cult.

And I'd never require someone to take a geas from a cult they didn't actually join (unless on a HQ specifically for that god).

[hipsterinspace]

On 12/13/2022 at 4:27 AM, Shiningbrow said:

I've never seen the requirement for an Associate's spell as being based on the mythology of the receiving deity/cult - but always on the giving deity/cult.

Associate spells do come from their mythic interactions, cults become associated for a reason, and typically those associate rune spells are themselves the heroquested stories (as every rune spell is itself a tiny heroquest) of how they became so close and the things they took or lent to one another through their interactions. As a straightforward example, Yelmalio gets Shield as an associate from Yelm, probably from a myth where he is given the Shield of Justice that is later taken from him by Orlanth during the Hill of Gold myth; Elmal, on the other hand, gets his Shield as an associate from Orlanth, who didn’t defeat him and steal his shield on the Hill of Gold, but instead exchanged weapons with him in a very similar but slightly different myth. I’d think something Hyalor gets from Yelmalio would have more to do with his history as a fairly significant cult hero and ancestor.