Question of cultures

[Tizun Thane]

On 12/13/2022 at 9:40 AM, Oleksandr said:

Another stupid idea i had was a group/clan of gewissi for players to rival with - with Cymri stats, Angles culture (using rules for hybrids), wotanistic version of "Odinism: Aegir",

I would make them Christians, with Angle Culture (so, a cruel view). They were probably christians at the beginning, and I do not see why they would convert to Odinism.

[Oleksandr]

19 hours ago, Tizun Thane said:

I would make them Christians, with Angle Culture (so, a cruel view). They were probably christians at the beginning, and I do not see why they would convert to Odinism.

Well, there was quite a few pagans even in Arthur time, i assume there was more 20 years before his birth 🤷‍♂️. +if they was assimilated into saxon culture, they could also convert. I specifically chose Aegir worship because it has Cruel, Vengeful and Selfish as virtues, thus "good" synergy with Angles 😅.  In fact, Christian (especially RC) would "cancel" their cultural modifiers.

[Oleksandr]

On 11/29/2022 at 12:44 PM, Oleksandr said:

Specific example i had in mind, community of loyalist jutes living in Logres and having wotanism version of "odinism: Tyr",

1) If i understand correctly, in "Saxons!" in roll for ancestor there option for family to believe themself be descendant of deity. Provided they believe they are descendant of Tyr (which, in this world, they could be), i wonder, would they strive to adhere to his religious virtues?

2) I also wonder how much Arthur vassals was eger to adhere to his chivalry standard.. Especially among berrocingas, who famously loyal to kings of Logres.

[Oleksandr]

I noticed that homeland modifiers for Ireland (from "pagan shore") was way more intense than for other region. Some even give stat bonuses...🤨🤔

[Oleksandr]

A little bit of rant. From GPC, "Fighting Men":

"Arab Warrior: Robed Bedouins armed with bows and razor-sharp scimitars, often inspired against any foe by their fanatical devotion to Allah. They ride upon Arabian chargers" - while it stereotypical "arab" weapon, in reality scimitars was only introduced in the middle of crusades period. Traditional arab swords was identical to the european ones. Additionally, most Arabs was christian at the time.

"Moor Warrior: Dark-skinned, blue-robed men from North Africa. They are armed with lances, shields, and swords, and all ride upon Barbary chargers." -  while there is sub-saharan diaspora in north Africa, it was much smaller at the time. Native north african has the same (often even lighter!) skin tone as south europeans. Important thing is, many north africans find assumption that they supposed to be dark-skinned as highly racist...

[Qizilbashwoman]

6 hours ago, Oleksandr said:

A little bit of rant. From GPC, "Fighting Men":

"Arab Warrior: Robed Bedouins armed with bows and razor-sharp scimitars, often inspired against any foe by their fanatical devotion to Allah. They ride upon Arabian chargers" - while it stereotypical "arab" weapon, in reality scimitars was only introduced in the middle of crusades period. Traditional arab swords was identical to the european ones. Additionally, most Arabs was christian at the time.

"Moor Warrior: Dark-skinned, blue-robed men from North Africa. They are armed with lances, shields, and swords, and all ride upon Barbary chargers." -  while there is sub-saharan diaspora in north Africa, it was much smaller at the time. Native north african has the same (often even lighter!) skin tone as south europeans. Important thing is, many north africans find assumption that they supposed to be dark-skinned as highly racist...

To clarify:

The Umayyad conquest of Visigothic Hispania happened between 711 and 718 and was comprised of very early Berber converts and a minority of Arabs. This is the establishment of Andalus.

The Blue Men are the Tuareg, who take their name from an inland Libyan trading oasis known in Arabic as Sijilmasa. Half of their current territory is now in Mali and Niger, but that is not their range a thousand years earlier when ibn Hawqal was the first writer to mention them.

[SDLeary]

12 hours ago, Oleksandr said:

A little bit of rant. From GPC, "Fighting Men":

"Arab Warrior: Robed Bedouins armed with bows and razor-sharp scimitars, often inspired against any foe by their fanatical devotion to Allah. They ride upon Arabian chargers" - while it stereotypical "arab" weapon, in reality scimitars was only introduced in the middle of crusades period. Traditional arab swords was identical to the european ones. Additionally, most Arabs was christian at the time.

Remember that Pendragon is designed to be a reflection of Arthurian Literature, and that one of the biggest pieces of this, Le Morte d'Arthur was published in the 15thC. Curved swords begin to appear in Persia and surrounding areas in the 9thC.

Also, Scimitar seems to be a European word, not one that originated in the areas where such swords originated. Im not a linguist, but it appears just from the words themselves that the term is probably an English or French corruption.

SDLeary

Edited January 31, 2023 by SDLeary

[Qizilbashwoman]

9 hours ago, SDLeary said:

Also, Scimitar seems to be a European word, not one that originated in the areas where such swords originated. Im not a linguist, but it appears just from the words themselves that the term is probably an English or French corruption.

SDLeary

Scimitar is the end of a long trail of adoptions that originates in Persian SHAMSHIR, which originally just meant a sword.

The first curved shamshirs appeared in Iran in or after the ninth century as exotic imports from contacts with Turks (at that time in Central Asia) but the real heyday of the scimitar in West Asia was after the Mongol conquests in the thirteenth century; before then, swords in the region were all straight and both single- and double-edged blades were common.

Edited February 1, 2023 by Qizilbashwoman

[Oleksandr]

On 1/31/2023 at 5:54 PM, Qizilbashwoman said:

The Blue Men are the Tuareg, who take their name from an inland Libyan trading oasis known in Arabic as Sijilmasa. Half of their current territory is now in Mali and Niger, but that is not their range a thousand years earlier when ibn Hawqal was the first writer to mention them.

As i understand,  "Moor" was generic term for north african people, aren't it?🧐  Tuareg are just one of many groups.

On 1/31/2023 at 11:49 PM, SDLeary said:

Remember that Pendragon is designed to be a reflection of Arthurian Literature, and that one of the biggest pieces of this, Le Morte d'Arthur was published in the 15thC.

Yeah, but in other aspects it at least try to integrate pieces of real history.

P.s. another thing is description of wends from LoG, when they described as local barbarians. Actual scandinavian sagas say (and archeology confirm this)that wends was culturally identical to scandinavians. And while occasionally there was mutual raiding, there was also trading, alianses, dynastic marriages... (although, KAP in this regard infinitely better than "paladins" in which almost everything wrong 😁)

[Qizilbashwoman]

55 minutes ago, Oleksandr said:

Tuareg are just one of many groups.

yes but i was clarifying that at the time, the groups comprising "the Moors" largely did not include the Tuareg; that's also about a thousand years off