Plant Rune HeroQuest

[Brian Duguid]

On 12/28/2022 at 11:04 AM, mfbrandi said:

Is this really a controversial take?

Controversial, no. But the real world comparison only assists to a point. It tells us that a process such as that described for elf transformation is credible in as much as it reflects experiences we have often seen described in the real world: it's not out-and-out bizarre. That is, it's consistent with a magical description of our own reality, although not with a scientific description. 

But Glorantha is entirely a magical reality. The real-world comparison helps in establishing credibility, but tells us nothing about whether the elf initiation rite is appropriate in Glorantha's own terms. I'm happy that it definitely is, and that it would be a duller world otherwise. If an elf wandered into this initiation rite and the candidate was not being properly disembowelled, they'd know both that cheating was taking place, and also that it simply could not work. 

I'm not trying to convince you of my perspective, and IRL I hold no religious or spiritual faith at all. I'm very happy that people come at this in different ways. But I wanted to acknowledge that some reaction (it's surgery, mutilation etc, and therefore not somehow appropriate) suggest an unsympathetic approach to equivalent beliefs in our own world (it's not mutilation, it's rebirth). 

Edited December 29, 2022 by Brian Duguid
typo

[Eff]

23 hours ago, Brian Duguid said:

As already noted, there are plenty of accounts like this one. I imagine that "their own people" believed that this is exactly what was done, and that they considered it to be magical, not lunatic.

I sympathise with the point about transference of how rituals are conceived and perceived between IRL and Glorantha being sometimes problematic. But I find it odd that we consider it unremarkable in Glorantha that limbs can be regrown, people resurrected, wounds instantaneously closed, etc, but that other magical transformations of the body are somehow suspect. For me, that's a very real-world modern mindset, and I find that approach to Glorantha odd in itself.

Each to our own!

I would say that, for my part, the entire Aldrya initiation is straightforwardly modern in its approach, in that it defines "elf" in purely biological terms and makes it a binary of elf/non-elf. (It also makes certain assumptions about genitalia in Glorantha that are probably not intended.) There's a subsidiary question of whether literalizing these kinds of initiation rituals actually conveys a similar meaning to what the real-world initiation ritual means to the people who practice it and those who undergo it, but that gets into the question of whether Glorantha's "middle world" should be understood as a material world in contact with the spiritual one of the "hero plane"/"gods war"/otherside or not. 

In any case, the problem I have with the Aldrya initiation is the implication that Aldrya's for elves only, which certainly seems to make Glorantha significantly more rigid in terms of how people interact with the divine- the literalized religious devotional practice of initiation to the tree goddess, who might be very relevant to appease or curry favor with if you rely on orchards, coppicing and pollarding, or are just a charcoal burner, is apparently closed to entire categories of being based on their literal, material body. (As opposed to taking a transformation like wearing bark clothes and a bark mask and literalizing that into a method to "become an elf" for ritual purposes, to name one alternative off of the top of my head.)

[scott-martin]

I'm reminded of this epic rant issued by a magus closer to home. My Glorantha is old enough to have already suffered through multiple cycles of routinization and disenchantment. We can still  participate in a "golden age" when the skies are made of paper and the seas of lemonade but in the war-torn 1620s the road back to that site of consciousness is no longer persistent or trivial, and most people who run out of rune points end up coming back to the regular lozenge to stack the clacks and sew the pants. The spike is bright dirt now.



What does this say about elves in someone's Glorantha? Maybe their magic needs to be more uh florid than it is in mine. That's all right. Chase the level of wonder that you need. Elf hats for all elf heads.

[Squaredeal Sten]

On the other hand there is room in my own imagination for an alternate path to initiation into Aldrya:  

I see the cruelty of the Lyger Litor initiation as something that goes with the cruelty aspect of the Darkness rune.  So I don't feel that it must be present in the Aldryami initiation.   The plant rune can follow a different model.  After all the elves and trolls are not brothers under the bark.

What are the emotional and behavioral aspects of the Plant rune?  What are the implications of joining Aldrya?

Besides adopting a very long term view (the forest lasts much longer than any individual or even any individual tree)  I see another possible implication as becoming part of the forest.  Other more authoritative people have identified the Plant rune with being "Quiet. Healthy, Grounded" for NPC characterization.  Aldrya also has the Fertility Rune. " Sexual. Nurturing. Warm."

Can we make something out of that combination?

Also, from the Cult Compendium, page 193, "Candidates for initiation must choose to join either Elder Sister or Elf cult.. Both are open to any initiate.' But Elder Suster requires an empathy for plants "rarely" found in any human.  Initiates of the Elf cult must take a working part in the Elf society" and must serve in defense of the forest.

I can envision a human initiate to Aldrya as forsaking human society, living in and protecting the woods, and adopting one of the elvish occupations such as assisting the Gardeners.  I can also see the human initiate gradually becoming an elf, perhaps on the seasonal model, that is being planted or rooted at the beginning of Dark season and growing leaves or other Elf like features in Sea Season.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Eff]

18 hours ago, scott-martin said:

I'm reminded of this epic rant issued by a magus closer to home. My Glorantha is old enough to have already suffered through multiple cycles of routinization and disenchantment. We can still  participate in a "golden age" when the skies are made of paper and the seas of lemonade but in the war-torn 1620s the road back to that site of consciousness is no longer persistent or trivial, and most people who run out of rune points end up coming back to the regular lozenge to stack the clacks and sew the pants. The spike is bright dirt now.



What does this say about elves in someone's Glorantha? Maybe their magic needs to be more uh florid than it is in mine. That's all right. Chase the level of wonder that you need. Elf hats for all elf heads.

The other side of this, of course, is that the initiation is a safety valve. The meaning of nonhumans in Glorantha can be a very thorny rosebush indeed, and one way of avoiding getting scratched is to put a little decorative brick barrier up, and on one side are the elves with their pretty flowers, and on the other side are the humans admiring. You do need to clip and trim, but you always do, it's a question of how one should do so. 

[scott-martin]

10 minutes ago, Eff said:

initiation is a safety valve

As you say, sometimes you want a lot of scary looking bramble to keep the birds and neighborhood children on the right side of your berries. The aim of the berry, like the adoption rite, is to make more elves. But smart gardeners aren't shy about exploiting hunger, horror and the rumor table to regulate access . . . when the remedy has a reputation for being extreme, you know you'll only attract extreme need. All others will find solutions elsewhere, and these solutions tend to be what interest me about historical elf religious interactions. Who knows what "really" happens behind the hype? None of my business really, although the prevalence of "maker" modalities (a lot of carving and cutting and shaping) strikes me as bearing additional deep investigation.

But this investigation might not go down quite the easy deer trail people hope to hike. I come back to Dionysus as symbolic lord of the "dance" (the death + resurrection show) because the word used in the Homeric Hymns for his transformations is γίνομαι . . . becoming, transitioning, something more like reification. The literal machine translation is exciting, something like a frozen pivot between presence and non-presence, the moment of the change. When he does the pirates, at that moment the dolphins both are and are not.

Which is of course the classical Arabic introduction to the magic narrative, kān yā mā kān, it was and it wasn't. The moment of the tree and the mammal, the plant and the man. The moment of the elf. Whether that means some elaborate wooden person or a different dream of when we all lived in soft buckskin and hunted with beautiful bows across a forest that stretched and echoed with laughter across the continent (does anyone remember laughter) is a question only the heart can answer. All I know is that when we chase the lord of the dance too hard we tend to miss the seasonal pantomime and end up with nothing but ecstatic murder on the mountain. Whether these are the same thing dolled up with paint and stage machinery is the same question. The brambles, as it were, are fixed. Only the shadows are dancing.
 

[Brian Duguid]

46 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

I see the cruelty of the Lyger Litor initiation as something that goes with the cruelty aspect of the Darkness rune.  So I don't feel that it must be present in the Aldryami initiation.

This is certainly one point of difference. I didn't see it as cruel, any more than I see real-world ritual (and non-ritual) activities that involve piercing, scarification, tattooing and the prolonged endurance of pain as inherently cruel. As Effy asks, it's reasonable to query whether human initiation to Aldrya must only involved transformation, or whether a membership / allegiance option is possible. I don't have any issue with both options being possible. But if it's about transformation, we shouldn't shy away from the rites being genuinely transformative.

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, Eff said:

In any case, the problem I have with the Aldrya initiation is the implication that Aldrya's for elves only, which certainly seems to make Glorantha significantly more rigid in terms of how people interact with the divine- the literalized religious devotional practice of initiation to the tree goddess, who might be very relevant to appease or curry favor with if you rely on orchards, coppicing and pollarding, or are just a charcoal burner, is apparently closed to entire categories of being based on their literal, material body. (As opposed to taking a transformation like wearing bark clothes and a bark mask and literalizing that into a method to "become an elf" for ritual purposes, to name one alternative off of the top of my head.)

I see a certain parallel to the difference between Eiritha worship (the initiate being the cow in the application of rune magic) and horse queen worship where the magician is the horse keeper, not the horse herself.

There is an actual Orlanthi plant man aspect of Orlanth: Durev, carved from (dead?) wood by Orstan the Elder, who became the leader of the Downland Migration tribe and whose marriage to Orane the Weaver sort of pre-enacted the marriage of Orlanth and Ernalda. But this is a plant (made image) having undergone a (painful?) conversion into man, pretty much the inversion of the Aldrya initiation ritual.

[g33k]

6 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

...

Unsurprisingly — godless ne’er-do-well that I am — I come down on the (2) “something has gone terribly wrong” side. ...

Is this really a controversial take?

I kind of think it is, yes -- a controversial take, that is.

Not necessarily wrong (YGWV, after all!), but "controversial."
 

You are arguing, in essence, that the spellcasters-in-combat (and out) get their in-world magic; they can cast Lightning on their foes, reattach severed limbs to be instantly fully-healed, animate inanimate elements, etc.

But, you say, the magical transformations of the Shaman must remain mundane, and be purely symbolic/hallucinatory/metaphorical.  Not real.

In all our FRPGs, though, the magic is real.  Including, I will assert, many shamanic rituals.
I think some rituals are symbolic; but that they are the less-potent ones.  Major transformations -- creating a shaman -- are not among the less-potent.

[g33k]

FWIW:

1. I am really loving the ideas being explored in this thread at the moment!  Nice work, and wonderful insights, one and all!
2. But -- while not really "offtopic" per se -- they're IMHO a distinct thread-drift from the "JoRS promo/announce" purpose of the thread
3. I also think the ideas likely aren't getting the attention they deserve, buried 150+posts deep into the very-specific thread
4. Because of points 2 & 3, I wish this particular drift had been spun-out into its own thread
5. With points 2, 3 & 4... what if somebody (looking at you, @Lordabdul) were to request admin/mods do a bit of thread surgery to Make It So, spin this off?  (likely beginning with @mfbrandi's comment here (on "becoming an elf"))

Or, y'know, not... because ygmv and reasons.

[g33k]

6 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

...

But this is the thought experiment: a member of the shaman’s community — not a dissident or “unbelieving” member — who is not currently in an altered state finds a shaman actually eviscerating a would-be initiate and stuffing the cavity with stones; do they think (1) “business as usual”, (2) “something has gone terribly wrong”, (3) something else entirely, or (4) it depends?

Unsurprisingly — godless ne’er-do-well that I am — I come down on the (2) “something has gone terribly wrong” side. ...

I think you're likely right -- the witness(*) might very well thing something along the lines of "something has gone terribly wrong."

But, I would argue that  what has gone wrong  is that a mundane & uninitiated mortal has wandered unprepared into an Otherworld ritual space.

 

(*)  I mean, it depends on the witness!  A Eurmali might giggle, and hand the shaman an Oakfed ember, uttering the Lie "this one goes where the heart is" (and I may just have come up with an interesting character concept; dunno yet if it's PC or NPC ... )

[mfbrandi]

6 hours ago, g33k said:

But, you say, the magical transformations of the Shaman must remain mundane, and be purely symbolic/hallucinatory/metaphorical.  Not real.

Thanks for your comments. My “something has gone terribly wrong” was about what would happen if a rogue real-life shaman took their rituals too literally and actually eviscerated the wannabe initiate (which is not something I am accusing IRL shamans of doing). Sorry if I didn’t make that clear.

You are right, though, that I do wonder — nothing stronger than that — about how our attitudes to IRL magic should or just might affect our attitudes to FRP magic. Fantasy magic can seem like a branch of physics or engineering, getting a new spell like shopping for a smart bit of tech or visiting Q. If we are not on our guard, rationalized magic can be a bit dull. But on the other hand, gee-whiz sensawunda can be a crashing bore, too. It is tricky.

But I am not arguing for making shamans less powerful or more mundane than other fantasy spellcasters … and anyway, no one should take too much notice of me.

[Lordabdul]

18 hours ago, Eff said:

In any case, the problem I have with the Aldrya initiation is the implication that Aldrya's for elves only, which certainly seems to make Glorantha significantly more rigid in terms of how people interact with the divine

That's my main problem too. It's not like elves or trolls need to be transformed into humans to worship "human" (big quotation marks here) deities. And sure, Aldrya and Kyger Lytor happen to be the ancestor of elves and trolls, unlike whatever other deities non-humans might join (Humakt, Yelmalio, Babeester Gor, whatever). No god besides Grandfather Mortal/Daka Fal fits that description of being "father of humans", and other races tend to worship a different version of Daka Fal to get around the problem ("Grandfather Baboon" and so on). But that shows how this thing is weirdly setup. I blame the 1970s human-centrism of fantasy world-building, which we still have to wrestle with.

18 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

I can envision a human initiate to Aldrya as forsaking human society, living in and protecting the woods, and adopting one of the elvish occupations

That would be my version as well. I don't like this write-up of Aldrya that forces you to become a biological elf in order to become an initiate, as opposed to, you know, a cultural elf. Societal constructs of identity and all that jazz. However, I could totally see the Aldrya cult limiting God-Talker and higher levels of hierarchy to "actual" elves, forcing you to undergo the transformation if you want to rise up the ranks.

[Squaredeal Sten]

17 hours ago, Brian Duguid said:

...... I don't have any issue with both options being possible. But if it's about transformation, we shouldn't shy away from the rites being genuinely transformative.

Oh. I am not arguing against some transformation.  The part in Cult Compendium about testing pre -  imitation at CHA-10 when dealing with elves and post initiation when dealing with humans, indicates some transformation even though it is worded to be remarkably ambiguous.  

But I think the method of transformation should be in accord with the Plant and Fertility runes.  The transformation would be done by nurturing gradual growth, not by chopping the body, skull, and legs up.

That is not to say that the human initiate of Aldrya cannot look more elf like at the end of the process.  And be more elf like, too, with elf like skin, eyes, bones. And yes an increase in elf magic and psychology.

[g33k]

2 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

...  

But I think the method of transformation should be in accord with the Plant and Fertility runes.  The transformation would be done by nurturing gradual growth, not by chopping the body, skull, and legs up

...

I can't help but think of the shapeshifting magic of Yinkin & Odayla here, and speculate about rune-spells of Grow Roots, and Sprout Leaves, and Skin of Bark.

Am I totally off-base, here?

[Squaredeal Sten]

5 hours ago, g33k said:

I can't help but think of the shapeshifting magic of Yinkin & Odayla here, and speculate about rune-spells of Grow Roots, and Sprout Leaves, and Skin of Bark.

Am I totally off-base, here?

I think you are right on.  

[David Scott]

1 hour ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

I think you are right on.  

You can't cast Plant Rune magic unless you've the Plant Rune. Yinkin & Odayla Beast magic is easy for humans as Man & Beast are core Runes. Dismemberment and rebirth are classic shamanic initiation motifs:

Quote

the central theme of an initiation ceremony: dismemberment of the neophyte's body and renewal of his organs; ritual death followed by resurrection.

Shamanism, Archaic Techniques of Ecstasy, Mircea Eliade

Eliade covers this theme throughout the book, well worth getting as a reference book.

In this context, the shaman (who are Children of the Forest), would preside over this. 

[scott-martin]

Now that this thread has achieved its parthenogenetic glory and we're looking at the rune affiliations I think we'll start finding alternative forms of initiation everywhere like lythrum salicaria taking over a New England meadow.

Looking again at the cult description I think the procedure described was not originally an adoption ritual but what certain communities used to create a new shanassee tree upon the expiration of the existing seed provider or simply his appointed term. For most born humans, this is as close to vegetable consciousness as it ever needs to get, and it happens after a period of dynamic activity that we associate with HKE. The forest isn't human but it isn't stupid either. Much like adoptive trolls unwilling to throw out the eyes, the forest isn't going to interfere with our talent for spreading seed on our own and there are other capabilities we have that are better exploited and not replaced.

And it means that for most male humans the most natural integration into the great plant mystery is not as an adoptive son but as a groom and ultimately as a father of tribes. The elves you seek in the world are your children. And for would-be mothers, the most natural thing is to identify with the goddess herself and bear the kind of children she would bear. She already provides those spells. To emphasize: these are the spells she provides. 

[Qizilbashwoman]

5 minutes ago, David Scott said:

Dismemberment and rebirth are classic shamanic initiation motifs:

Eliade covers this theme throughout the book, well worth getting as a reference book.

In this context, the shaman (who are Children of the Forest), would preside over this. 

Tom DuBois' An Introduction to Shamanism is a solid introduction; he's notably written Nordic Religions in the Viking Age, which is perhaps the single best introduction to Scandinavian religious practices before Christianity as well as a number of books on Sámi and Fennic religion.

[mfbrandi]

10 hours ago, Lordabdul said:

I blame the 1970s human-centrism of fantasy world-building, which we still have to wrestle with.

So on the one hand anthropocentrism is a problem …

10 hours ago, Lordabdul said:

I don't like this write-up of Aldrya that forces you to become a biological elf in order to become an initiate, as opposed to, you know, a cultural elf.

… but on the other if the humans want to play the elf game, the vegetable people and their tree mother are jolly unsporting to make them go through such a demanding rebirth ritual. Why is that? It sounds like you are saying that humans must be allowed to take what they like from Aldryami culture and magic and that the Aldryami are not allowed to set the terms. 😉

Is it just that the proposed ritual makes a lot of us go “ick”? Is it that it seems to resonate uncomfortably with intrahuman matters IRL in which some of us would like to ditch biological determinism or essentialism? (I am not going to be prescriptive about real world attitudes, but matters can be complicated, surely.)

[Eff]

1 hour ago, mfbrandi said:

So on the one hand anthropocentrism is a problem …

… but on the other if the humans want to play the elf game, the vegetable people and their tree mother are jolly unsporting to make them go through such a demanding rebirth ritual. Why is that? It sounds like you are saying that humans must be allowed to take what they like from Aldryami culture and magic and that the Aldryami are not allowed to set the terms. 😉

Is it just that the proposed ritual makes a lot of us go “ick”? Is it that it seems to resonate uncomfortably with intrahuman matters IRL in which some of us would like to ditch biological determinism or essentialism? (I am not going to be prescriptive about real world attitudes, but matters can be complicated, surely.)

If the only way to stop being anthropocentric is to stop being anthropos, then anthropocentrism is inevitable for humans, so of course if you view anthropocentrism as a negative you believe by implication that there's the capacity to decenter the anthropic without departing from it. 

Now there's an interesting implication in all of this, which has to do with the "changeling" motif and the supposed grand exterminationist ambitions of the Elder Races- the assumption that elves aren't human is rather absurd if you look at it through a runic lens, since they have the Man rune. But if you take it as given that elves, or trolls, or dwarves, are nigh-universally opposed to the existence of humanity in its present state, have grand revanchist ambitions to not only wipe out the humans but also the landscape of human existence, then perhaps you might say that someone who's an elf-friend, or a human you see in a dwarf caravan moving aboveground, isn't really human anymore. That parts of their selfhood must have been taken out and replaced with counterfeit equivalents. That they've been replaced with a changeling, a being with unknowable but probably negative motives. 

[Joerg]

10 hours ago, Lordabdul said:

That's my main problem too. It's not like elves or trolls need to be transformed into humans to worship "human" (big quotation marks here) deities.

There is only one "deity" worshipped essentially for "being human" and that is Grandfather Mortal / Malkion / Daka Fal.

Aldrya is more than the ancestral deity of elfs, unless you group dryads, pixies and runners in that category, too. She is goddess of the plants embodying the forest, and its oversoul (the dryad of dryads, or "all dryads"), but not of all plants. And she is the embodyment of the Grower after the Compromise (sort of shared with Murthdrya and possibly Mee Vorala).

There is some similarity to the role Eiritha plays for her Animal Nomad descendants, but only the herd animals share in that special communion with the Protectress, the others having given up on that in Waha's contest. "Initiating" into that aspect of Eiritha can be done through that one use spell available to the Waha cult.

 

10 hours ago, Lordabdul said:

And sure, Aldrya and Kyger Lytor happen to be the ancestor of elves and trolls, unlike whatever other deities non-humans might join (Humakt, Yelmalio, Babeester Gor, whatever). No god besides Grandfather Mortal/Daka Fal fits that description of being "father of humans", and other races tend to worship a different version of Daka Fal to get around the problem ("Grandfather Baboon" and so on). But that shows how this thing is weirdly setup. I blame the 1970s human-centrism of fantasy world-building, which we still have to wrestle with.

Maybe the "humans" of Glorantha are the flavor-less expressions of the man rune, devolved from the more powerful (immortal) ones like the Brithini, Vadeli, Agitorani and whatnot. And not just starting with the introduction of capital D Death (which changed or rather destroyed Grandfather Mortal).

Most of the "Elder" races of Glorantha are junior devolutions of the real deal, too. Only Mistress Race uz are the real elder race, the burnt ones (and the variations thereof like the hot ones or the regenerating ones) are crippled lesser versions. Small domestic cattle alongside the aurochs. Same with the Clay Mostali (and already the non-Clay Iron Mostali), just ersatz for the real deal. And hardly anybody interacts with the original (Niiad) merfolk any more, of just "Srvuali" ancestry and the Man rune, all we encounter are the bastard groups like Cetoi, Piscoi or Zabdamar, all of whom have as much Storm ancestry as they have Sea ancestry.

The dragonewts are a mysterious case, but the real dragonewts of old are all True Dragons by now, or died as dinosaurs. It isn't quite clear whether there were newer nests with new eggs, or whether the scouts we have now are the "Lost Boys" of dragonhood, or whether there are some newer nests who did not yet have enough time to experience experiences.

The extant true elf races (green, brown, yellow) aren't quite what they used to be. Ok, maybe the Embyli haven't changed all that much in the Gods War. The Vronkali and Mreli used to be a single species, but depending on their decisions in the Gods War (more so than by the associated tree species?) they split into the followers of High King Elf (who stretched the "we belong to the forest" beyond what the mreli were able to tolerate) and the accepters who went to sleep, many never to awake again becoming the mreli. But then the entire concept of coupling the Man rune with the plant rune was a paradox, fine for the earlier part of Godtime but almost necessarily torn apart as the Gods War arrived.

 

10 hours ago, Lordabdul said:

That would be my version as well. I don't like this write-up of Aldrya that forces you to become a biological elf in order to become an initiate, as opposed to, you know, a cultural elf.

Aldrya requires that you become a plant entity, not a beast entity. Give up that dragon origin, and she will allow you in. (After all the Beast Rune is a derivation of the Dragon Rune, although a different derivation than the Dragonewt Rune.)

A forceful transition may make you a plant entity, and you might retain your man rune, but will it make you an elf? And if so, what kind of elf? Will you have an associated tree? (The one your previous self was nailed to?)

Do the Embyli have an adoption ritual for females?

 

10 hours ago, Lordabdul said:

Societal constructs of identity and all that jazz. However, I could totally see the Aldrya cult limiting God-Talker and higher levels of hierarchy to "actual" elves, forcing you to undergo the transformation if you want to rise up the ranks.

The Aldrya cult is about the Song of the Forest (speaking of "all that jazz"), and you can only initiate if it resonates inside you. There are even rootless elfs without the ability to participate in Aldrya's cult beyond lay membership, even though many continue to live with and for their "online" kin.

So yes, much like the higher insights in Auld Wyrmish require a certain form of mutilation, so does the entry requirement for the Song of the Forest.

Rootless elfs may be the equivalent of dinosaurs or wyrms in dragonewt society, or trollkin and cave trolls in troll society.

[radmonger]

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

You can't cast Plant Rune magic unless you've the Plant Rune. Yinkin & Odayla Beast magic is easy for humans as Man & Beast are core Runes.

Quick theory as to what happens in rules terms when you go through the gory procedure; it transfers your current rating in the beast rune to plant.

This would imply it is not necessary if you already have the plant rune. Now, how you would get such a rating is another question.

- as a quirk of ancestry, perhaps being descended from the Durev mentioned above.

- coming from a homeland where such a thing is common or universal

- due to a unique personal otherside experience, as a shaman or heroquester

- intense and prolonged sorcerous study 

- chaos or illumination

Obviously, some elves would still have political or pragmatic objections to someone with a demonstrable plant rune who hadn't been planted. They might insist on the procedure 'just to be sure'. 

 

 

 

[g33k]

5 hours ago, David Scott said:

You can't cast Plant Rune magic unless you've the Plant Rune. Yinkin & Odayla Beast magic is easy for humans as Man & Beast are core Runes...

I shall simply assert here, that any human who is Initiated to Aldrya has figured out how to start +%'ing their Plant Rune.

It may be the result of a heroquest, or some boon from an Aldrya Runelevel, or etc; it was a story event, IMG.

If I -- as GM -- am going to let a human PC initiate to Aldrya, I'm not gonna cheap out with "but you have no Plant Rune, and no way to get a plant Rune, so you're stuck!  Har-har-har!  And neener-neener for good measure!"

(consequently, I am also going to make sure to YGWV some MGF ways for them to start their Plant Rune)

Edited December 29, 2022 by g33k
MGF

[mfbrandi]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

"but you have no Plant Rune, and no way to get a plant Rune, so you're stuck!  Har-har-har!  And neener-neener for good measure!"

But I take it that on the official “be more hardcore: get reborn as an elf” version of initiation to Aldrya, the character does end up with a plant rune … if they are alive at the end.