Mixing MRQ2 Combat Manoeuvres and RQ3 Strike Ranks

[PhilHibbs]

Okay I have the results from the today's practice. What I did was set up a series of single combats. The fighters ranged from a young guy who has only been fighting one month, to a nearly 50 year old veteran of high competence. The pairings were organised so that a diversity of opposing skills were represented. Several weapon forms were used, longsword, sword and shield, or sword and buckler. These too were mixed and matched to provoke a wide range of test circumstances.

...In conclusion the incidence of accidentally striking an unintended location (at that particular practice) proved to be less that one in a hundred.

Were they given any specific directions on choosing locations, and is it possible that they might have landed more blows had they not been going for locations? Clutching at straws here to maintain my slender grip on the position I have assumed...

[Pete Nash]

One very important question about armour, Pete: do combatants succeed at hitting the weak spots in armour, too, when they strike the intended location?

No, not usually. Most of the competent fighters are roughly accurate to within 10-15cm, and usually blows are striking on the deflecting surfaces of the armour. The thing is they are not deliberately aiming for soft spots or gaps, so for them it is more incidental than anything else.

The highest skilled fighters are very surgical in their accuracy, and can use gaps and openings of down to about 5cm or so. I could strike for points such as inner elbow or biceps, fingers, face, throat, armpit and groin, but its not nice to do since we're not actively trying to break each other. This becomes doubly true if using steel weapons during a free-form bout as fractures become significant risks. However, I'd be the first to admit I've often used the latter two targets to 'remind' the occasional fighter who was being a bit brutal or less-than-chivalrous to play a bit nicer. So yes, it can be done fairly consistently, but mainly when you have a skill advantage over your opponent. The more evenly matched you are with your foe, the more difficult it is to access those weaker points.

As an aside, when fighting in a non-SCA context then I can use unarmed techniques alongside the weapon. This allows me to initiate binds and presses which, if I were to continue them through to their conclusion, could easily break a limb, despite the fact we are heavily armoured. So technically you can 'bypass' armour in a number of different ways.

[Pete Nash]

@ Pete: How long did each match last?

I didn't specifically time each bout, but none would have been more than 10 seconds at the most.

[dragonewt]

In conclusion the incidence of accidentally striking an unintended location (at that particular practice) proved to be less that one in a hundred.

Would the intended location become the intended location as a result of circumstances and therefore be a target of opportunity that was chosen after it presented itself by happenstance?

Edited December 6, 2010 by dragonewt

[Pete Nash]

Were they given any specific directions on choosing locations, and is it possible that they might have landed more blows had they not been going for locations? Clutching at straws here to maintain my slender grip on the position I have assumed...

A good question, but no. It was completely free-form fighting.

Certainly they could have launched a wild flurry of blows, but it would have been pointless. That's not how real fighting works. You dare not throw wasteful shots since it drains energy, builds up excessive heat, significantly reduces the power of the blows (since you are concentrating on speed and not committing the blade to go through the targeted limb or location), opens up huge gaps in your defence and prevents you from utilising your skill/technique to create an advantage over your opponent. Against inexperienced opponents you might get away with it, but against anyone else it is tantamount to suicide.

[RosenMcStern]

No, not usually. Most of the competent fighters are roughly accurate to within 10-15cm, and usually blows are striking on the deflecting surfaces of the armour. The thing is they are not deliberately aiming for soft spots or gaps, so for them it is more incidental than anything else.

The highest skilled fighters are very surgical in their accuracy, and can use gaps and openings of down to about 5cm or so.

...

The more evenly matched you are with your foe, the more difficult it is to access those weaker points.

Great! This really helped me for the game I am designing now. Thank you Pete!

[Pete Nash]

Would the intended location become the intended location as a result of circumstances and therefore be a target of opportunity that was chosen after it presented itself by happenstance?

That's a difficult one to answer clearly. Yes, the intended location can change as a result of circumstance, but generally that its because I manufactured the circumstance to begin with or had anticipated it and am already targeting the hole I know is going to open for me.

When unexpected things happen, such as my opponent slipping, fumbling or doing something radically unusual (always fear novice fighters), then I am often not in a position to take advantage of it, because my weapon will be in the wrong place with the wrong trajectory to get across or back to the opened target. By the time I can respond, the hole has closed up again and the tactical situation changed.

For example, every once in a while someone resurrects a silly trick shot which requires spinning 360 degrees to throw a blow at the other side of the body. It can be done fast, even in armour, but relies more on surprise than anything else to work. In effect you present your undefended back to the opponent whilst you spin around. The first few times it was used against me I fell for it and although I could see a completely open target, simply could not take advantage in time before the opponent caught me in the head. Nowadays I recognise the preparatory footwork and body setup, so that I can decide to tap them gently in the back of the head before they can complete the move.

I don't know if that answers your original question. It would be much simpler if I could physically demonstrate the wide range of options available from any position, where the decision tree starts to kick in and why I select a specific branch, at each stage of my opponent's reaction.

Edited December 6, 2010 by Pete Nash

[Trifletraxor]

Would the intended location become the intended location as a result of circumstances and therefore be a target of opportunity that was chosen after it presented itself by happenstance?

I've done quite a bit of weapon sparring myself (Filipino Martial Arts), with heavy sticks and minimal protective gear (fencer mask, gloves and groin protector) and very little rules (strike with the weapon, kick, grapple, do whatever you want) - and I must say I do not agree that fighters choose the location they hit freely. I think rolling location is a good way to simulate that where you hit depends on your opponents position in relation to you and how he holds his weapon. If I'd "chosen" to only hit for my opponents head during a sparring match, I would get totally trashed. So the old rules still holds true with me.

SGL.

Edited December 6, 2010 by Trifletraxor

[SDLeary]

I've done quite a bit of weapon sparring myself (Filipino Martial Arts), with heavy sticks and minimal protective gear (fencer mask, gloves and groin protector) and very little rules (strike with the weapon, kick, grapple, do whatever you want) - and I must say I do not agree that fighters choose the location they hit freely. I think rolling location is a good way to simulate that where you hit depends on your opponents position in relation to you and how he holds his weapon. If I'd "chosen" to only hit for my opponents head during a sparring match, I would get totally trashed. So the old rules still holds true with me.

SGL.

OK, this prompts another question... or series ;-)

Pete and Trif... Does the ability to hit a specific location vary with the length of a weapon?

Enscrima sticks are fairly short, and most SCA type combat occurs with sword/axe/mace and shield, though Pete did state some of the bouts were with Longsword. What about things like Spear and shield or two handed axes or pole-arms?

Archers appear to be able to hit location too, perhaps within a specific range. Thrown spears and javelins though??

SDLeary

[Trifletraxor]

Pete and Trif... Does the ability to hit a specific location vary with the length of a weapon?

I wouldn't say with the length of the weapon, but with the range you happen to be in.

In escrima, we talk about 7 ranges in fighting:

Snaking range - Neither opponent can reach the other's weapon with a strike.

Stick Squared range - Weapons can collide, but the opponents are too far away to hit each other.

Long range - You can reach the extremities with a hit, but not the torso or head.

Medium range - You can reach the entire body with your weapon, but is out of reach for a punch.

Close Quarter range - You can attack with the but of your weapon or punch with your "live" hand.

Standing grapple - Clinch.

Ground - Grappling on the floor.

During combat, you're fighting range will change between these 7 ranges. Having a weapon with longer reach than your opponent is of course a big advantage, as you might f.ex. be in long range while he's still in stick squared range.

What about things like Spear and shield or two handed axes or pole-arms?

Depending on how the opponent holds his weapons, certain angles of attacks will be easier to parry for him. As the opponent moves, certain locations will be easier to hit and certain more difficult. You don't strike blindly and hit a random location, but the target you aim for are the targets that present themselves in when you commit to an attack. F.ex. if the opponent holds his shield high, succeeding with an attack to the head could be more difficult than other locations. If you still wanted to go for the head, you could feint an attack, which might or might not drawn the shield away from the intended target and allowing you the shot.

Archers appear to be able to hit location too, perhaps within a specific range. Thrown spears and javelins though??

Most missiles weapons are just generally aimed towards the torso, as this gives you the greatest chance of hitting something. Not necessarily the torso, but something. It's quite realistic that your chance of hitting decreases if you aim for any other location.

SGL.

Edited December 6, 2010 by Trifletraxor
added some info about range