Malkioni and spirit magic.

[Godlearner]

Jeff has recently posted that Malkioni, and I would say most Malkioni, use spirit magic. From whom do these people learn spirit spells? Can sorcerers teach spirit magic?

[Richard S.]

Presumably they learn them from their cults like most other people. Dronar villages probably get the occasional wandering shaman too.

Depending on the sect, a Zzaburi probably could teach spirit magic, or at least figure out a spell to simulate the ritual method used by priests and shamans, but given how it conflicts with sorcery I doubt any serious Zzaburi would know many spells to teach.

[Runeblogger]

I would say that, if priests can ask cult spirits to teach spells to initiates, zzaburi can coerce/force spirits to teach spirit magic to their fellow citizens (although perhaps they hate doing that because sorcery is always the only worthy source of magic in their eyes).

[radmonger]

24 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

given how it conflicts with sorcery I doubt any serious Zzaburi would know many spells to teach.

A Zzaburi only needs to know the sorcerous version of _summon ancestor_ to provide virtually any spell to any worthy noble, warrior or artisan. Assuming, of course, that there has not been any dirty caste mobility going on...

[Godlearner]

1 hour ago, Runeblogger said:

I would say that, if priests can ask cult spirits to teach spells to initiates, zzaburi can coerce/force spirits to teach spirit magic to their fellow citizens (although perhaps they hate doing that because sorcery is always the only worthy source of magic in their eyes).

Yes, but we are talking about the none sorcerer classes. To most these masses are not worthy of the pure magic.

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, Godlearner said:

From whom do these people learn spirit spells? Can sorcerers teach spirit magic?

In most of Malkioni culture, the dronars and the holars worship cults, so they can learn from the cult priests as well as any shamans.  Generally, I don't think the zzaburi are going to spend time summoning spell spirits for those folk - they are going to spend the available MP's casting important blessings, defensive magics, etc. based on the direction of their talar.

[Godlearner]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

they are going to spend the available MP's casting important blessings, defensive magics, etc. based on the direction of their talar.

I would think that Talars would want their troops and servants to have some decent spells.

[Richard S.]

9 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

I would think that Talars would want their troops and servants to have some decent spells.

Yeah, but since they can learn those through the normal channels (cults) there's no need for the Zzaburi to waste their time on a workaround.

[Godlearner]

1 hour ago, Richard S. said:

Yeah, but since they can learn those through the normal channels (cults) there's no need for the Zzaburi to waste their time on a workaround.

If they can then yes. That was my original question.

[David Scott]

12 hours ago, Godlearner said:

Jeff has recently posted that Malkioni, and I would say most Malkioni, use spirit magic. From whom do these people learn spirit spells? Can sorcerers teach spirit magic?

@Jeffsaid:

 

Quote

So among the Malkioni, the main magic systems are the following:

• Sorcery. This is the speciality of the wizard caste.
• Spirit Magic. Used by everyone except the wizards.
• Rune Magic. Available through ancestor worship, hero cults, and approved (and not approved) cults.

Sorcery can likely reproduce Summoning a spell teaching ancestor (but I don't think thats the answer). However, as they have ancestor worship, they can Summon Spirit Teachers and learn spirit magic that way. With approved Rune cults, the would have cult spirit magic available. There is also the possibility of shaman in the mould of Korean shaman who are effectively a priestly group rather than (for example) Siberian style shaman.

Malkioni Likes and dislikes tells of widespread ancestor worship and cults like Xemela, Hrestol, Gerlant, and Talor. It's probably more sensible to look at a specific region and explore what cults are available, as Malkionism cover a very wide area, and differing forms. Different regions are likely to emphasise different cults.

[metcalph]

37 minutes ago, David Scott said:

There is also the possibility of shaman in the mould of Korean shaman who are effectively a priestly group rather than (for example) Siberian style shaman.

My thinking is that in Seshnela, this is the cult of Daka Fal/Malkion the Old which is largely staffed by minor nobles well down in any line of succession.  They mostly tend to the lesser ancestors of the Nobility and perform pastoral care for the lower castes (ie they are recycled Liturgists of HeroQuest).  They have no sorcery preferring instead the Spirit World which they claim Malkion created to save the faithful from Death.   Unsurprisingly the Wizards hate them.

 

 

[soltakss]

On 1/12/2023 at 8:29 PM, Godlearner said:

From whom do these people learn spirit spells?

Folk Magic Traditions, Magic Schools, Various Societies (Warrior, Hunter, Weavers), wandering Shamans, there are many sources.

On 1/12/2023 at 8:29 PM, Godlearner said:

Can sorcerers teach spirit magic?

Why not?

They would probably use the same mechanism that Rune Priests do.