Alchemy Herbalism & Magic

[Joerg]

8 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

In order to make Spirt-Battle Magic Spell Potions where do you get the ingredients?

From the alchemists' guild which usually is an extension of the Knowledge Temple. If you desire, there may be missions for gathering exotic material posted at that guild, either accompanying a guild official or restricted to parties with a registered alchemist to do the harvesting.

 

[Erol of Backford]

On 2/12/2023 at 5:41 AM, Joerg said:

I think it is Elder Secrets which has a recipe for a batch of canned food that a supervisor regarded as "too brainy" for a slightly high content of gold in trace amounts.

I looked for it but didn't see it quickly, I am sure it had things like dirt in it... "I've got a jar of dirt!" (sorry, had to add that...)

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I looked for it but didn't see it quickly, I am sure it had things like dirt in it...

Originally in the DW article if I recall correctly. And perhaps in the Elder Races book out of the RQ3 Elder Secrets box.

[Darius West]

I would point out that there must also be criminal underworld alchemists who aren't attached to Lhankor Mhy who deal in Lanbril products, with a few other alchemical products on the shelves perhaps for cover, or perhaps the entire alchemical side of the business is hidden.

[Joerg]

5 hours ago, Darius West said:

I would point out that there must also be criminal underworld alchemists who aren't attached to Lhankor Mhy who deal in Lanbril products, with a few other alchemical products on the shelves perhaps for cover, or perhaps the entire alchemical side of the business is hidden.

Such "dark alchemists" could be good associated members and customers of the alchemists' guild and the knowledge temple, with something like a "registered small business" e.g. in antidotes (which require the same ingredients as venoms). In the Rubble, the Black Fang poisoners may run material collection quests for the guild.

The Knowledge Temples are massive money sinks, and while royal stipends are nice, personal luxuries and rare book demands may exceed those stipends, which explains their astronomical research fees. The associated guilds like alchemists, perfumers, parchment/paper makers etc. serve as money-makers and don't ask too many questions about their customers.

[Nevun]

I've always thought of an alchemy skill as being a similar system to rune magic.

You start with a few basic alchemy skills - Gather, Brew, Preserve. And a few related skills: Trade, lore etc. Modified by how much of a prepared (sanctified) place you have.

Learning the basics gives you access to a suite of basic potion recipes (like Common rune spells): Simple healing potions. Low level woads, tinctures to improve the quality of certain goods, Powers of a similar level to spirit magic or common rune magic.

Being taught by a specific school gives you access to more complex and specific recipes (like cult rune spells). Powerful healing elixirs. Combat boosting drugs. Base draughts required for certain heroquests or spirit world visits.  Shapechanging totems.

Then you can research (heroquest) for unique recipes known only to few individuals or just you.

I'm not sure how you would place a limit on the number of recipes created per season - in a way that would be analogous to rune points. Any ideas?

[Erol of Backford]

20 hours ago, Darius West said:

I would point out that there must also be criminal underworld alchemists who aren't attached to Lhankor Mhy who deal in Lanbril products, with a few other alchemical products on the shelves perhaps for cover, or perhaps the entire alchemical side of the business is hidden.

But I assume poison isn't magical nor is acid? Dragon breath acid or poison gas, etc. is similar to snake venom whereas a shimmer or blade sharp potion would have some magical component would it not or are we just saying everything in Glorantha is somewhat magical and that for this instance alchemy is what is needed to get said herbs, minerals components etc. to transform or spark said ingredient's intrinsic magic?

The quest to gain such materials can easily outweigh the reward. I clearly recall having to fight a herd of winged monsters on a lonely peak above an elevation where only magical plants would grow to get materials for a certain battle magic potion.  

Seems like in most instances you are better off learning the same spell or getting it made into a matrix?

[Darius West]

I handled the matter this way in New Pavis:

P8  The Jolanti Building.  Named by a former owner, Dannil Dwarffriend, this building is notable as it was made with rock from the old quarries and by Flintnail cultists.  The simplicity of its fluted cornice work and simple geometric motifs lend the building a certain dignified austerity. This block of shops is actually owned by Fezrek the Alchemist who rents space to various other businesses.  The Jolanti Building has no superintendant, and Fezrek will send his apprentices to fix anything that goes wrong, or do it himself to save money.  The Jolanti Building contains four shops, all related to Fezrek's criminal activities.

 

Hold, Carry & Sell ***.  Owned by Garald Hardbreeks (M34Pavic).  This shop is a general outfitter for expeditions into the Big Rubble, or for travelling more generally.  If you want camping supplies, this is a good place.  Garald sells backpacks, rope, pitons and hammers, various light sources, dried foods including Praxian pemmican (called prakas), and even Dwarf cans, tinderboxes, fire drills, bedding, blankets, tarpaulins, Dwarven nesting mess kits, wet weather clothing, bug repellant paste, water skins and canteens, you name it.  What is less well known is that Garald sells Lanbril Specialist tools like chirpers, whumpers, lockpicks, and thief's helpers, as well as Lanbril alchemical products like Thunder Lung Dust, Visibility Dust, Stink Dust, Scent Stop Dust, Sleep Powder, Smoke Bombs and Flares.  Garald keeps these items ferreted away in a hidden panel in his store-room, and will sell only to those who can cast a Lanbril cult spell.  Garald is a Lanbril initiate.  

Fezrek's Glassware and Elixirs ****. Fezrek Dwarffriend aka Fezrek the Philosopher (M57Pavic) runs a professional alchemical shop here.  He sells a number of mundane products such as dyes and mordants, cleaning products made from urea or vinegar, that Godlearner alchemical aberration from the Sorcerous West called "soap", bug repellant paste, and so forth.  He also sells curative potions and pills, vials of corrosive acid, poisons, and the like for adventurers. What is not generally known is that Fezrek is responsible for making the various Lanbril Items that Garald Hardbreeks sells on the sly.  Fezrek started his adult life with the Lhankor Mhy temple as an initiate, and became fascinated with alchemy, and as a result shifted his focus to study with the Dwarves, who recognized his talents and drive.  Fezrek eventually left Lhankor Mhy to become a Flintnail cultist and to study Mostali Alchemy.  Once he had exhausted the obvious sources of alchemical lore, and learned a lot about mechanisms and devices, Fezrek eventually fell into the ambit of the Lanbril Cult when he needed money, and they needed his particular expertise.  Fezrek has 6 apprentices who work for him in his lab rooms, of which Perel the Quip (M22Pavic), and Mindro the Smart (M25Adari) are from the notorious Lanbril thief ring known as the Hole Lords, and one, Wulfgar the Righteous (M27Pavic) is (unknown to anyone present, especially Fezrek) a Black Fang initiate there to learn poison secrets.  The other three are Tollen Fillathson (M16Pavic) who is from the Farmer's Quarter and glad to have a good apprenticeship, Mollani Beardseeker (F17Pavic) who is Kost the Tracker's granddaughter but has failed twice in her Lhankor Mhy initiation, and Denthil Knowsit (M23Pavic) the most diligent apprentice, who lives in Riverside.  Perel the Quip is a wiseguy and a mediocre thief, but with decent social skills who is stuck in a rut and basically exists to be a second rate guard for Fezrek while spying on him for Rat (A major organizer of the Hole Lords).  Mindro the Smart showed up at age 23, too late for a normal apprenticeship, but Frezrek invented a cover story for him being a hard luck case from Adari who would work for a pittance.  Mindro is actually smart, and competent, and while quiet, makes a decent living in his double life with the Hole Lords, being good at second story work.

Reputable Remedies *.  Run by Fezrek's oldest apprentice Merban Fingerstained, this shop began as a place selling alchemical medicines, but has gradually declined in popularity save for one item, the "Men's Herbal Re-invigoration tonic" which is sold to "Reinvigorate the growth and color of one's hair".  Absolute nonsense of course, as none of the men who buy it ever regrow a strand of hair or have a grey strand grow color.  It is in fact a medicine to aid in one's "marital duties".  Merban runs a side business after hours, selling copies of an illustrated line of Esrolian scrolls on "Ulerian Technique and Variations", cleverly greased and sewn impala gut condoms in little parchment squares, a decoction of Vingan Henna that serves as a contraceptive for women if consumed regularly, smooth ceramic phalluses that can be filled with warm water, a popular line of “life drawing” nudes of clearly pornographic nature, and a number of Teshnan miniatures that are quite obscene and sexually explicit.  None of these products are overtly visible, being under the counter and locked away. Merban relies on word-of-mouth recommendations for his business.  On display are a series of nostrums, elixirs, powders, and potions that are very cheap, but have no effect except that they invoke the medicinal blessing of the obscure Chalana Arroy spirit subcult of “Placebo”, which helps people recover, by making them believe they should (+10% on recovery rolls).

Jemdora's Scribal and Artistic Supplies ***.  This shop sells inks, paints, glues, brushes, quills, clay pallets, as well as paper, parchment and canvases.  It also sells dyes.  Most of these items, especially the pigments, are made by Fezrek or his apprentices.  Jemdora (F33Pavic) is a decent business woman from Old Town who knows nothing about the Lanbril activities in the building.  Recently widowed by disease she has taken up a partnership with Fezrek so she can raise her children.  Fezrek knows she is of good character and well respected, so he makes an effort to cultivate her good opinion as it reinforces his own reputation as a reputable person. Jemdora’s children include Garlanda (F10Pavic), Anemone (F8Pavic), Sorlanth (M6Pavic), and Leikala (F4Pavic).  Jemdora presently allows her husband’s sister Klistha the Careful (F36) to lodge with her.  Unbeknownst to Jemdora, Klistha is actually working surreptitiously as a street-walking proto-Ulerian prostitute to earn money.  Jemdora would be mortified to discover this.

[Darius West]

3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

But I assume poison isn't magical nor is acid? Dragon breath acid or poison gas, etc. is similar to snake venom whereas a shimmer or blade sharp potion would have some magical component would it not or are we just saying everything in Glorantha is somewhat magical and that for this instance alchemy is what is needed to get said herbs, minerals components etc. to transform or spark said ingredient's intrinsic magic?

The quest to gain such materials can easily outweigh the reward. I clearly recall having to fight a herd of winged monsters on a lonely peak above an elevation where only magical plants would grow to get materials for a certain battle magic potion.  

Seems like in most instances you are better off learning the same spell or getting it made into a matrix?

Of course Lanbril uses unorthodox recipes like Thunder Lung Dust, Dust of Death, Scent-Stop Dust. Stink Dust, Sleep Powder venom, Smoke bombs, and Flares, not to mention mechanical contrivances like the Magic Chirper, the Whumper, the Thief's Helper, and of course Lockpicks.

I could imagine with a bit of effort it might be possible to create a dust that can act like a Dispel magic spell, or a dust that makes people hallucinate.

[Squaredeal Sten]

On 2/15/2023 at 8:18 PM, Erol of Backford said:

In order to make Spirt-Battle Magic Spell Potions where do you get the ingredients?

Healing potions are easy, shimmer seems like you need to climb mountain tops, what about blade sharp? Do you need to obtain plant that will cut you like agave or yucca and have needle-sharp leaves.

Quests for alchemist potion ingredients seem obvious or that are commonly traded region to region.

What are the ingredients for a strength potion?

 

Looking at the Runequest in Glorantha rules page 175, which describes the alchemy skill, and lists four types of potions; Healing, Antidotes, Poisons, and Medicines-

I see a subtle difference from RQ2 pages 48 and 50 on potions. Which lists "Battle Magic" as a general potion type.

Therefore I beleve that there may be no spirit magic spell potions in the  RQiG version Glorantha.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
Omitted a word

[Erol of Backford]

I am good with letting PC's find ingredients or at least research for them at the LM Libraries? Climbing distant mountains to find strange fruit which makes you high can be fun!?

[Erol of Backford]

On 2/20/2023 at 10:44 PM, Darius West said:

Thunder Lung Dust, Dust of Death, Scent-Stop Dust

I wonder if these come from ground dragon skeleton, decomposed mummy cloth, ancient asbestos (whatever that might be) or mold spores from under the Bat's wings, hehehe.

[RHW]

My take on Lhankor Mhy alchemy, fwiw. TORVALD subcult.

TORVALD THE ALCHEMIST

God of Alchemy.   In order to join the subcult of Torvald, Lhankor Mhy initiates or Rune Levels must join the Alchemists Guild, which costs them 1000 sp.  Outsiders may join the Alchemists’ Guild for 2000sp and the sacrifice of 1 POW. They are essentially initiates of Torvald but not of Lhankor Mhy. Members tithe the Guild 10% of all profits made by selling potions.

Benefits of Membership:  Can learn all the skills taught by Torvald.  Can sacrifice for cult Rune Magic as per initiate.

Master Alchemist:  A Master Alchemist is a special devotee of Torvald.  A Master Alchemist must know five of the following skills at 90%+, Brew Potion Base, Brew Poison, Brew Antidote, Brew Healing Potion, Plant Lore, Animal Lore, Mineral Lore, or Craft Alchemical Gear.  Master Alchemists may learn all the cult spells (but not his Secret) as if she were a priest, but may not learn any other Lhankor Mhy magic. 

Professor of Potions: Requirements are as above, but the Alchemists must also be an initiate of Lhankor Mhy with no other subcult, have a POW of 15+ and Mythology of Lhankor Mhy at 50%+. A Professor of Potions is a Rune Lord of Lhankor Mhy with all the normal benefits and obligations and may sacrifice for all of Torvald's spells, including his secret.

Grandmaster Alchemist:  A Grandmaster Alchemist must be the head of an Alchemists Guild division.  He must have at least 50 Alchemist followers.  Grandmaster Alchemists can learn all of Torvald’s spells at normal cost, regardless of their cult affiliation. Grandmaster Alchemists may also learn Torvald’s Secret.

CULT PERSONALITY SKILLS:  Obsessive, Detached

CULT SKILLS:  Brew Potion Base, Brew Poison, Brew Antidote, Brew Healing Potion

Brew Healing Potion (Manipulation Skill):  Healing potions require special ingredients that can be gathered via Plant Lore. Potions heal Skill/15. Each additional potion made in the same batch (provided sufficient ingredients) reduces the potency by 1. EXAMPLE: Trix Dangerfoe has a skill of 85%, enough to make a Heal 6 potion. In one batch, he can make 1 Heal 6 potion, 2 x Heal 5 potions, 3 x Heal 4 potions, 5 x Heal 2 potions or 6 xHeal 1 potions.

Brew Antidote (Manipulation Skill):  Antidotes require special ingredients that can be gathered via Plant Lore or Animal Lore.  Antidotes only work against the specific venom of the source ingredients. Antidotes include Scorpion (and Scorpionman) Antidote, Spider Antidote, Snake Antidote, Blade Venom Antidote, Elf Poison Arrow Antidote, etc. Antidotes have a potency = Skill/5. Each additional potion made in the same batch (provided sufficient ingredients) reduces the potency by 3.  EXAMPLE: Trix has a skill of 75%, enough to make a potency 15 antidote. In one batch, he can make 1 Pot 15 antidote, 2 x Pot 12 antidotes, 3 x Pot 9s, etc. On a crafting fumble, the alchemist is exposed to the source poison.

Brew Poison (Manipulation Skill):  Poisons require special ingredients that can be gathered via Plant Lore or Animal Lore.  Poisons have a potency = Skill/5. Each additional poison made in the same batch (provided sufficient ingredients) reduces the potency by 3, as per antidotes above. On a crafting fumble, the alchemist is exposed to the source poison. This creates an imbibable poison only. For contact poison (aka Blade Venom) see below.

Brew Potion Base (Manipulation Skill) Allows the crafter to brew a potion base. Ingredients for Potions are rare and expensive, usually costing approximately 50s per point of potency. Once the potion base if finished, the Alchemist can imbue it with IMBUE POTION. See below. Max spell power = Skill/15. Each additional potion made in the same batch (provided sufficient ingredients) reduces the potency by 1.  See Brew Healing Potion above. Each potion requires a separate casting of the spell, so brewing 3 Shimmer 4 potions cost 12 magic points and 600s.

TRUTH RUNE MAGIC

ENCHANT ALCHEMISTS STONE (Rune Magic, Ritual, One-Use, Stackable, 1 pt.)  This 24 hour long ritual creates an Alchemist’s Stone.  For each pt of the spell used, the resulting Stone adds +5% to all the Alchemist’s Brewing skills, so long as it is in her possession.  Later castings can increase the strength of the Stone, so 1 pt of Enchant Alchemist’s Stone can be used to turn a +15% Stone into a +20% Stone.  An Alchemist’s Stone is only usable by the Alchemist who created it.

IMBUE SPELL POTION (Rune Magic, Ritual, 3 pts) This spell must be cast on a dose of Potion Base created by the Brew Potion Base skill.  This allows the caster to imbue the Potion with a single spell, either Battle Magic or Divine, which is cast upon the drinker when the Potion is imbibed.  The caster must either know the spell himself or have the assistance of someone who does.  Magic points are spent normally and Divine spells are considered cast and must be recovered normally.  One-Use Divine spells are consumed. If the spell is harmful, it only works on a resistance check of the base strength vs POW of the imbiber. For this reason, spell potions are usually beneficial. Examples: Shimmer, Vigor, Protection, Countermagic, etc. The Base must have a potency of 1 for every point of Battle Magic or Sorcery imbued, 2 for every point of Divine Magic imbued.

IMBUE RESTORATIVE POTION (Rune Magic, Ritual, Stackable, 1 pt) This ritual takes an entire day.  The caster casts this spell on a Potion Base, then spends MPs equal to the potency of the Potion Base.  When drunk, the Restorative Potion will restore MPs equal to its potency.  MPs expended to make the Potion are regained normally. The caster may imbue multiple potion bases created in the same batch per the batch rules above, with the MP cost equal to the total points on the batch. So 1 x MP Restoring 6 Potion costs 6 MP,  but 3 x Restore 4 Potion cost 12 MP. Also, each additional potion costs 1 extra point of IMBUE RESTORATIVE POTION.

REFINE BLADE VENOM (Rune Magic, Ritual, Stackable, 1 pt)  This spell must be case on a single dose of poison and takes 24 hours to cast.  It turns the poison into Blade Venom.  Blade Venom may be applied to any weapon with cutting or puncturing surfaces (including spiked or phlanged maces or mauls).  If the weapon strikes a living target and does damage, the Poison affects the target as if it had been ingested, with the same potency and delay (generally 1d4+1 rounds).  Each extra point allows for the creation of an additional dose during the same ritual.

TORVALD'S SECRET

(Stasis Rune Magic)

BREW ELIXER OF LIFE (Rune Magic, Ritual, One-Use, 3 pts)  The Alchemist must have an Alchemist’s Stone to cast this spell.  Through intense concentration and focus and over the course of an entire week, the Alchemist creates a potion that has two basic effects.  If drunk by a living person, that person will not age for a number of seasons equal to the potency of the potion (potency = Alchemist’s Brew Potion Base skill/5).  Alternatively, the Alchemist can pour the potion into the mouth of a recently dead person.  So long as the person is only mostly dead (dead for less than the Elixer’s potency in hours and the body is relatively whole, head, chest and abdomen attached to each other and with at least 1 positive HP each), the person will return to life. If the corpse had negative HP,  the revived target will have 1 total HP. If the caster fumbles his Brew Potion Base skill while casting this spell, he dies instantly and the spell fails and is lost. On a crit, the Elixer is created and the spell may be regained as if it were reusable, without additional POW sacrifice.

[RHW]

Jera the Herbalist, a subcult of Ernalda that does Herbalism and a bit of Alchemy.

 

JERA THE HERBALIST

(Goddess of Herbalism and Medicine)

Jera is the goddess of healing potions and medicine.  She’s a popular subcult of Ernalda the Healer.

CULT SKILLS: Preserve Herbs (Manipulation), Brew Antidote (Manipulation), Brew Healing Potion.

Brew Antidote (Manipulation Skill):  Antidotes require special ingredients that can be gathered via Plant Lore or Animal Lore, usually a sample of the poison being countered.  Antidotes have a potency equal to the source, up to a max of the crafter's Skill/5. Crafting an antidote takes a full day per dose. Antidotes attack Poison in a Potency vs Potency resistance roll. If the Antidote hits, the poison loses potency equal to the potency of the Antidote.  If not, the poison loses half the Antidote’s Potency.  Antidotes must be taken either before the poison is drunk/injected or before the poison’s delay expires. 

Brew Healing Potion (Manipulation Skill):  Healing potions require special ingredients that can be gathered via Plant Lore. Brewing a single dose of a potion takes a full day. Potions heal Skill/15 pts of damage when drunk or poured on a wound.  Drinking or applying a potion is a move action. 6 Pt Heal Potions can reattach limbs if both parts are intact.

HARMONY RUNE SPELLS

RESTORE HEALTH

EARTH RUNE SPELLS

IMBUE POTION (Rune Magic, Ritual, 3 pts) This spell must be cast on a dose of Healing Potion created by the Brew Healing Potion skill.  This allows the caster to imbue the Potion with a single spell, either Battle Magic or Divine, which is cast upon the drinker when the Potion is imbibed. The caster must either know the spell herself or have the assistance of someone who does.  Magic points are spent normally and Divine spells are considered cast and must be recovered normally. Only spells with positive effects can be imbued into a potion and the drinker can choose to resist the effect freely if desired.  The entire process of creating an Imbued Potion takes three full days and creates a single small flask (one dose). The new Imbued effect replaces the normal healing qualities of the potion.  The potion must have a starting potency of 1 for every point of Battle Magic imbued, 2 for every point of Divine Magic imbued

RESTORATIVE POTION (Rune Magic, Ritual, Stackable, 1 pt) This ritual takes an entire day.  The caster casts this spell on a Healing Potion, then spends MPs equal to the potency of the Potion.  When drunk, the Restorative Potion will restore MPs instead of damage.  MPs expended to make the Potion are regained normally.  Each extra point allows for the creation of an additional dose during the same ritual, though MPs must be spent normally to create each potion.

JERA’S SECRET

EARTHPOWER

[Erol of Backford]

What and where is there more on Torvald? I liked having the Book of Wyrms and one of the Bishops carrying it around hitting himself in his head while chanting...

RHW, I'll save this assuming one of the PC's develops alchemy skills, thanks.

8 minutes ago, RHW said:

ENCHANT ALCHEMISTS STONE

This could be anything, a wand a stone, a Gold Wheel Dancer, etc. or so I like that it could be, maybe an allied spirit or even a sorcerer's familiar?

The Torvald Fragments are the source of Lhankor Mhy sorcery Write up Page Year Runes Personal Glyph Notes Cults of Glorantha Preview 294 2019 Torvald Fragments RuneQuest Glorantha 389 2018 Torvald Fragments HeroQuest… from the Well.

[Erol of Backford]

RHW, are you sure its not another cult altogether?

[RHW]

All the cults I wrote up are based on STORM TRIBE and THUNDER REBELS, with keywords translated into spells. So I'm sure these were based on the right cults when those came out, but I'm not sure they're right RIGHT NOW. YGMW.

The three subcults that had the most Herbalism and Alchemy stuff were Torvald for Lhankor Mhy, Jera for Ernalda, and Minlinster for Orlanth (Yay! Beer!).

Plus Chalana Arroy has Brew Healing Potion as a skill.