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BRP powered games


simonh

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I believe there are several obstacles to BRP becoming popular as a generic game engine.

The first is the name. This has to problems. One is that 'Basic' implies simple or minimal. That's simply no longer accurate, as the new BRP core rules present a highly sophisticated game system with numerous of options to adjust the complexity and setting or genre appropriateness of the system. Customers who aren't interested in a minimalist set of rules might get the wrong impression.

The second problem with the name is legacy. Previous BRP editions have been little more than pamphlets with a truly minimalist set of rules, but not enough to actually run more than an extremely limited game. Anyone who has had exposure to the previous BRP editions may quite reasonably be put off by the BRP moniker as the new edition is a totally different beast.

Aside from the name, another problem is that while I like it a lot, as a truly generic game engine it is far from perfect. The game systems presented are a hodgepodge of material from the archive of past BRP powered games. It's great to have it all in one volume, but I'm a long standing BRP fan. For someone with no history in BRP it's not ideal. Obviously a lot of effort was put into bringing it into a coherent whole and adding guidance notes and options to fill in the gaps, but it's still a bit of a grab bag. There's also the problem that the plethora of different options scattered throughout the book detracts from the coherence of the system.

Right, time to get constructive. I feel really bad criticising BRP 4th Ed because I love it. Clearly it was a very worthwhile project and the author did a great job. Top marks for hitting the target the book was aimed at. However I don't think it's a product that is ever going to significantly expand the BRP community. It's aimed squarely at the existing community and as such it's a great lynchpin to hold that community together. The fact that a rich and varied array of monographs and supplements have sprung up around it is proof of that.

So how to move forward? If BRP itself isn't going to expand the community, any supplement you aim at it is limited to that community. To use BRP Rome you need BRP. You don't have BRP - you aren't going to buy BRP Rome.

GURPS tried a program a while back called Powered By GURPS. There were several games released like this, including Prime Directive based on the Star Fleet universe. This made sense because these games were aimed at an audience beyond the GURPS crowd, who wouldn't all want to buy into GURPS to play in that setting.

So is this something that Chaosium or third parties would be interested in? Would Chaosium be prepared to license other publishers to produce games Bowered By BRP? Would third parties be prepared to do the work of building the BRP system into their product and paying for the privilege?

Apologies if this subject has been discussed before. I don't see anything recent on this anyway.

Simon Hibbs

Check out the Runequest Glorantha Wiki for RQ links and resources. Any updates or contributions welcome!

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If BRP itself isn't going to expand the community, any supplement you aim at it is limited to that community. To use BRP Rome you need BRP. You don't have BRP - you aren't going to buy BRP Rome.

My experience is completely different. I know quite a lot of people who bought

BRP because they wanted to use settings like Crusaders of the Amber Coast or

Rome, and so these settings have indeed expanded the BRP community.

"Mind like parachute, function only when open."

(Charlie Chan)

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My experience is completely different. I know quite a lot of people who bought

BRP because they wanted to use settings like Crusaders of the Amber Coast or

Rome, and so these settings have indeed expanded the BRP community.

And I wonder how many more might do so if the BRP book was a slimmer, focused, cheaper product. This is presumably why the Savage Worlds is so cheap. Someone looks at a supplement thinks I would like that and I don't mind spending an extra $10 to get the core book. I would love to see a trade paperback sized, core book for BRP that is less than 200 pages, presents the core of the system and leaves all the rules options to the setting books.

On a related note, has anyone seen Adamant's experiment with "app" pricing. Everything is priced $1. I have no idea whether it will work but I can't help feeling that luxury BRP hardbacks and so on are all well and good for the small core of diehards. I'm not personally convinced that it's a sustainable path though.

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And I wonder how many more might do so if the BRP book was a slimmer, focused, cheaper product.

Yes, indeed. Over here we are lucky, because most roleplaying gamers know

Call of Cthulhu and have played it at least once, so they are somewhat fami-

liar with BRP and not as likely to be confused and overwhelmed by the BRP to-

me, but I think that someone who is a true newcomer to everything BRP may

well have serious problems with the labyrinth of options and not much of a red

thread to guide him through.

"Mind like parachute, function only when open."

(Charlie Chan)

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So is this something that Chaosium or third parties would be interested in? Would Chaosium be prepared to license other publishers to produce games Bowered By BRP? Would third parties be prepared to do the work of building the BRP system into their product and paying for the privilege?

Isn't this what Cubicle 7's The Laundry already does? I think Chaosium's system is already set up for this.

"Tell me what you found, not what you lost" Mesopotamian proverb

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Isn't this what Cubicle 7's The Laundry already does? I think Chaosium's system is already set up for this.

Excellent, I'd missed this one.

I'm wondering to what extent someone with a copy of CoC could just pick up most BRP supplements and just run with them. I suppose they'd be missing the magic systems, powers, mutations, etc.

And I wonder how many more might do so if the BRP book was a slimmer, focused, cheaper product.

Chaosium would make less money on a cheaper product, and anyway the product would be a lot less useful. I don't think that would work.

Simon Hibbs

Edited by simonh
Minor typos

Check out the Runequest Glorantha Wiki for RQ links and resources. Any updates or contributions welcome!

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Well, BRP lite already exists, and it is even free in its PDF form. So if you like Rome you can always use BRP lite with it. Furthermore, everyone has a copy of Call of Cthulhu somewhere, so everyone might want to try out a supplement by playing it with CoC and then buy into the basic book when he feels the urge of having the full range of options.

That said, the idea of packaging each game setting with its own version of the rules could be good. The Laundry does this. And you may have noticed that Alephtar is building its own system in order to do just this - packaging the system with the setting. So yes, I think it could be one of the ways to go to expand the fan base.

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Well, BRP lite already exists, and it is even free in its PDF form. So if you like Rome you can always use BRP lite with it. Furthermore, everyone has a copy of Call of Cthulhu somewhere, so everyone might want to try out a supplement by playing it with CoC and then buy into the basic book when he feels the urge of having the full range of options.

That said, the idea of packaging each game setting with its own version of the rules could be good. The Laundry does this. And you may have noticed that Alephtar is building its own system in order to do just this - packaging the system with the setting. So yes, I think it could be one of the ways to go to expand the fan base.

The problem with this may well be that Chaosium sells even less of the core book and therefore has to charge a higher licensing fee for the supplements, driving up the cost of supplements. There are obviously multiple business models. Chaosium appears to have chosen the premium core book model. Personally I prefer what Pinnacle has done with Savage Worlds. A very cheap, simple core book which is pretty close to being impulse buy cost. If you can buy the main rulebook for the cost of a nice pizza then supplements end up selling the core book for you.

Personally I find that the four power systems in the main rulebook are just too weak to be interesting in and of themselves and the first thing you do with a new setting is either create your own powers or modify them so heavily that it's a moot point whether it was any good in the first place.

At the moment you have an expensive rulebook and expensive supplements and a push to include all the rules you need in a supplement which means that the supplements and rulebook appear to be in competition with each other. I can't help thinking that that's not a healthy position to be in. Once you get companies like Alephtar trying to work around the rulebook rather than with it you have a situation where the rulebook starts to be perceived as a problem and that's an even more unhealthy situation with players using the quick start or simply sticking with coC rather than buying into BRP.

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Another point to bear in mind is that packaging the game system into the setting is a proven model. That's exactly what Chaosium did with all their previous games.

I think it's a decission that will need to be made on a setting by setting basis. If a setting uses a lot of resources from the core BRP book then it doesn't make sense to repeat all that again. On the other hand if a setting uses a completely new power system, or a customised skills setup, or new game system options, or no power system at all and a lightweight subset of the rules as CoC does then I think it could make sense.

Simon Hibbs

Check out the Runequest Glorantha Wiki for RQ links and resources. Any updates or contributions welcome!

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Another point to bear in mind is that packaging the game system into the setting is a proven model. That's exactly what Chaosium did with all their previous games.

I think this might still be the way to go, as it makes things easier for newbs. As long as you have no more than 50-60 pages of redundant materials in each game, it should be ok. They might even think of inserting a Kyger Litor cult write-up in each supplement, just to keep true to the tradition :)

However, the value of the Big Gold Book need not be underestimated. BRP has been at a loss if compared to GURPS for at least 20 years, and this should not have happened. This was primarily due to the lack of "Brand recognition" and of a core ruleset, upon which the different settings could be grafted as variants. Now that the core ruleset exists, publishing a standalone game that uses the same engine does not overshadow the "brand" any longer like it did with Call of Cthulhu.

I think the whole thing coulde be advertised as follows:

a) The Basic Roleplaying game engine has been around for 30+ years, providing the foundation for successful, fun to play games like Call of Cthulhu or Stormbringer

B) Several new standalone supplements come out every year for BRP, adding to the variety of games you can run by knowing just one simple, easy to use system

c) Whenever you want, you can take optional elements from the core rulebook to incorporate in your specific campaign without too much tinkering

d) Finally, if you want to design your own game, the core rulebook is a good starting point for any genre

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How about the piecemeal approach?

Basic mechanics resolution is free.

Download Sanity rules - $5.

Download Allegiance rules - $5

Download Hit Location rules and related Spot Rules - $5

Download Major Wound rules and related Spot Rules - $5

Download [specific magic rules] - $5

:)

70/420

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How about the piecemeal approach?

The economics don't work. Say you have a $20 book that's 200 pages long. It's not economical to print four 100 page books for $5 and maintain the same margins. The production costs aren't linear with page count. You're more likely to end up with four $10 books. This mainly applies to printed books of course, but laying out four 100 page PDFs is more work than laying out one with 200 pages and you need to charge for that work.

Even for PDFs the end result would be to make less money than you would have. I don't care about sanity rules or allegiance rules, that's at least $10 you wouldn't make from me that you would have if you sold me the full book. That sounds like gouging for unneeded content, but it's not realy. It's just a natural consequence of a multi-genre or setting book where not everyone is interested in all the settings. Anyway one day I may be in a game someone else runs that uses those rules, or I might change my mind, or they might inspire me to use similar mechanics for another purpose.

Simon Hibbs

Check out the Runequest Glorantha Wiki for RQ links and resources. Any updates or contributions welcome!

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I think this might still be the way to go, as it makes things easier for newbs. As long as you have no more than 50-60 pages of redundant materials in each game, it should be ok.

Any chance Merrie England will be this way when it is redone for BRP? I really like the look of it but must confess the idea of flipping back and forth between the Big Gold Book and the Merrie England book puts me off. The Savage Worlds model mentioned previously makes me feel the same way. Personally, I'd pay more to have something like the Solomon Kane RPG that runs on Savage Worlds and inserts all the Savage Worlds rules needed into one rulebook with setting rather than pay slightly less but have one book that has some rules and another book that has other rules and settings like the Savage World version of Call of Cthulhu.

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Any chance Merrie England will be this way when it is redone for BRP?

Our license (which is different from the license Cubicle Seven has for the Laundry, even if our BRP books are printed and distributed by CB7) does not allow us to do so. Chances are that we will renegotiate something sooner or later, but certainly not for Merrie England, which is about to see the light of the day again.

However, consider that we have three different "Medieval Europe" settings now, and two Chinese ones. So there are lots of parts that would end up being reprinted even between Merrie England and, say, Crusaders of the Amber Coast (erm, in fact the Magic System IS the same in the two books, as it is original and not based on the BRP canon). I do not know whether many people would be happy with this, considering also that if you play ME a lot you will probably end up buying also Crusaders when you run out of British adventures.

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