RosenMcStern Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Which is a honest and objective review. However, you started the title for your review (rule one of journalism: most readers will read ONLY the title) with a "forget the other review" that most readers will see as a sign of bias. Will this help? Well, ignoring the other guy's opinion could have helped more. Quote Proud member of the Evil CompetitionTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simlasa Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 That Amazon review bummed me out when I saw it... I'd had high hopes for Chronicles. I don't agree with the review but I think it's kind of representative of a large crowd of RPGers who want a sourcebook that spells out every little detail for them and does it all with full color art in a hardback book. The vast majority of RPG materials I purchase are to mine ideas from... not run straight out of the package without alteration... but I think that approach is becoming less common. Ideally I'd like to meld Chronicles together with ideas from Geoffrey McKinney's 'Carcosa' and CoC's 'Cruel Empire of Tsan Chan' (which I love)... along with a big dollop of my own homebrew ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrad Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) I did not speak from a "morally superior" point of view, but from a business point of view. Sometimes, from _that_ point of view, it is a good idea to describe crap as "matter that could smell more pleasantly".. Then I guess your comments could smell more pleasant. Please read my post carefully - like dougla.s should have done with "Chronicles" . You're the one that needs to learn to proofread mate. Besides your comments read as a roundabout way of disparaging the efforts of Evil Schemer. Way to go; thats really positive. : I never accused Evil Schemer of being a fanboy, I just said that his words, in that context, sound as "fanboy talk".. In this context what you're writing "could smell more pleasant". You sound like you're being an arsehole to someone that has done something constructive and positive. Evil Schemer has taken the time and effort to write a positive review of CotFE and all you can write about it is that it sounds like "fanboy talk". And you have the temerity to lecture others on polemics! There is a difference - a big one - between talking about someone's words and talking about him or her. A point that the aforementioned dougla.s sounds like not understanding well, to be honest. You're the one bandying about the insult "fanboy", and you think that using the term "sounds as.." distances you from the insult to Evil Schemer. Please apologize to Evil Schemer. I know that CotFE isn't your work Rosen, but what is it with some RPG supplement writers? When someone takes the time to praise what they see as a good supplement some of you can't wait to sneer at them, applying the epithet "fanboy", as though you're embarassed to get such praise. You'd think that supplement writers would want some praise for their efforts. Or do you think that everyone that likes RPG supplements is intellectually inferior? Edited December 31, 2011 by Conrad Quote http://www.basicrps.com/core/BRP_quick_start.pdf A sense of humour and an imagination go a long way in roleplaying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilschemer Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Hey Conrad, I think you're being over-sensitive here. I understood Rosen's comments in the spirit in which they were intended: as constructive criticism of my review. He had some good points. My review would be more useful to potential new buyers if I didn't even mention the other review. Mentioning the negative review in my own review, making my review a response to the first, hurts my credibility as an impartial reviewer. It makes my review immediately look reactive and defensive. My review is a reaction to seeing a product receive an undeserved negative review, not out of a sense of loyalty to the product, but my review made it look like I was just being loyal. I have edited my review to remove references to the negative review. Also, I don't see "fanboy" as a pejorative. It simply means someone who is loyal. Personally, I try not to be "loyal" to any rpg brand. I have been in the past, and would get defensive if someone criticized my favorite game, but I have come to recognize the silliness in that behavior. I'm a consumer, an rpg is a product, and an rpg company is a producer. I have preferences, but I really have no reason to be defensive about my preferences. Quote __________________ Christian Conkle Blogs: Geek Rampage! - Swords of Cydoria - Exiled in Eris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brmjr9 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Just a few comments on Chronicles of Future Earth (CoFE) from a long, long-time GM... For a few months now, I've been running BRP at my local game store using the CoFE and Children of the Worm (CotW) books as my primary source materials with bits and pieces from here and there. My players and I have been enjoying it immensely. I hadn't run an RPG campaign for several years, and was debating systems and settings. I've run RuneQuest, Traveller, AD&D, Boot Hill, Morrow Project, Call of Cthulhu, Star Wars, and many others in everything from one-shot games for friends to conventions and campaigns. I wanted an RPG that wouldn't be too hard on my old brain, and I was leaning toward the Savage Worlds RPG, and maybe a Gamma World sort of setting, with lots of conspiracy between the various factions. (Proof of age = I still have my original Gamma World rules from... what...78? And the boxed set of FutureWorld/MagicWorld/SuperWorld. Too old - yikes!) Anyway, looking for some science fantasy materials, I bought CoFE sight unseen from the web, and I became very taken with the setting. The rich literary vision that Ms. Newton presented in CoFE just kept generating ideas every time I looked at it. When my potential players made it known they were leaning toward a fantasy setting, I dove back in to the BRP rules and the CoFE, picked up some other BRP supplements and CotW, and I went to work. I created a summary of all the geography, gods, demons, and races to hand out to players so they could dive into the setting (there is so much hidden in each section of the book, it took a little work to get it all out). I did add The House of Rasha Ascending (for entertainers and courtesans, of course - ahem). Then, as is my nature, I mapped the potential conspiracies between governments, gods, and houses, and tried to conjure up a way to drop my crew right into the midst of it all. As it happened, I did indeed drop them - in the courtyard of a long abandoned desert stronghold from a lost legion encampment - where they encountered the desert people and troglodytes during their escape into the Khadis wastelands. Currently they are with a bantoor caravan, preparing to try to find a rumored planing machine in the hands of a powerful necromancer deep in the depths of another crumbling Tlanik ruin (with a bit of help from the local Kesh fliers, a Virikki psionicist, and an ex-legionnaire from Amadorad). With each session, there are more questions, a few answers, and lots of excellent adventure. The straightforward BRP rules and the rich fantasy basis from CoFE with the hints of technology here and there turned out to be just right for myself and my crew. Anyway, it's been great to be back running RPGs again, and I wanted to post my sincere thanks to Ms. Newton for her hard work and grand vision of such a wonderful setting, as well as to Chaosium for their continuing publication of such quality RPG materials. I'll be among the first in line for any additional CoFE materials - I can't wait to see how my interpretation and extrapolation from the core book look against the author's on-going development. I'm especially very keen to see a larger world map - I tried to place all the mentioned geography around the Mediterranean and Africa, so I would like to get a grade on that paper! Ms. Newton, if you ever need a proof-reader or an early reviewer, sign me up! And if any of you that read this far are ever in Sarasota, Florida looking for an RPG to drop into, we'll keep a character warmed up for you... Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agentorange Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 aside, this setting is interesting, but in order to produce a "killer setting" you need something more in terms of quantity and support, IMO. Add to this that Sarah's time is now really, really devoted to FATE, leaving her very little spare resources for "Chronicles", and the end result is that it risks to enter a "blind alley". A pity. Which would be a shame as pretty much the last thing she said a way back was that she was working on or planning a super duper source book for COFE with loads of races, monsters, magic, gods etc etc. I find myself in two minds about COFE. ON the one hand I really enjoyed the feel or flavour of the book. It was intriguing and a bit different to your average fantasy setting. To me it evoked the feel of Gene Wolfe's book of the New Urth setting with a soupcon of Moorcocks tragic millenium and maybe a bit of a Clark Ashton Smith. Which ticked a lot of boxes for me. On the other hand I was somewhat underwhelmed by the actual product. Not big enough would be my main comment. I could have lived without the scenario and would have appreciated much much more source material. Also a little to much duplication of the artwork etc etc. I'd of been happy with a bigger ( even if it meant more expensive ) source book and maybe the scenario combined with the Children of the Worm PDF as a print product. I hope it isn't going to go the same way as so many Chaosium products, a big fanfare of sound at the start....fading to a quiet whimper as it slides into obscurity. I'd like to see more and I think it has the potential to be a great setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankcam Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I totally agree. The BRP system needs at least one other line other than Cthuhlu. I love Cthuhlu, but my players don't want characters who end up in insane all the time. Not all the time, at least. Chaosium is on a winner with Cthuhlu, but the BRP system would certainly benefit from either a well supported Sci-Fi line, Heroic Pulp line, or a Fantasy/Sword 'n'Sorcery line, like when it published RuneQuest or Elric/Stormbringer. I think "Chronicles of Future Earth' could be the white hope in regards to having a Sword n Sorcery setting. I would love to see it with a large core book and get the kind of support that Chaosium has continued to throw at Cthulhu, that would be really great. Quote " Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onearmspence Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Add to this that Sarah's time is now really, really devoted to FATE, leaving her very little spare resources for "Chronicles", and the end result is that it risks to enter a "blind alley". A pity. this is just sad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 this is just sad No, just fate ... Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seneschal Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 No, just fate ... Or is it FATE? After reading various reviews and the comments on this thread, I'm still trying to get a feel for what Chronicles is like. Is it more Howardian sword and sorcery fantasy? More Burroughsian/Buck Rogers post apocalyptic soft sci-fi? I've never been a big fantasy player, but I'd enjoy a Thundarr the Barbarian/Gamma World type setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilschemer Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Or is it FATE? After reading various reviews and the comments on this thread, I'm still trying to get a feel for what Chronicles is like. Is it more Howardian sword and sorcery fantasy? More Burroughsian/Buck Rogers post apocalyptic soft sci-fi? I've never been a big fantasy player, but I'd enjoy a Thundarr the Barbarian/Gamma World type setting. It's neither Howardian, Burroughsian, Buck Rogers, or Thundarr. It's closest to Lin Carter's Gondwane (World's End) series. There's an element of Jack Vance Dying Earth. Probably more than a little Zothique as well (though I'm not as familiar with those books). I've heard it compared to Moorcock's Hawkmoon, but I am completely unfamiliar with that series. It's millions of years in the future. There are absolutely no touchstones to our modern day or our current society. It's a completely fantasy world with strange non-human races, magic, demons, the mutating force of chaos, and other dimensions. There are ancient artifacts created of a poorly understood "techno-magic" which bears little resemblance to anything we, today, would call "technology". The world of this time is given no detail. The book focuses on the Imperial capital of Korudav, located in what we today call the Iberian peninsula. One of the criticisms of the book is that it barely mentions the rest of the world at all, and that it gives tantalizing name-drops of other races, along with a half-sentence description, but provides no other information. Quote __________________ Christian Conkle Blogs: Geek Rampage! - Swords of Cydoria - Exiled in Eris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosenMcStern Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 One of the criticisms of the book is that it barely mentions the rest of the world at all, and that it gives tantalizing name-drops of other races, along with a half-sentence description, but provides no other information. Oddly enough, the currently agreed approach to good roleplaying in Glorantha is that of starting with one single area, for which a mild-to-high depth description is given, and leave out the rest of the world for the beginning of that campaign. It is also the original approach to Glorantha, the one used in the times when Prax was the only described setting, and there was no "General Glorantha" book available. It may be coincidential, but Sarah has a definitely deep knowledge of Glorantha, too. In the end, I think that she got it right. For those who express such criticisms, there is Forgotten Realms. Quote Proud member of the Evil CompetitionTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rust Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Oddly enough, the currently agreed approach to good roleplaying in Glorantha is that of starting with one single area, for which a mild-to-high depth description is given, and leave out the rest of the world for the beginning of that campaign. Cubicle 7's The One Ring RPG uses the same approach, it describes only the land and the people of one region of Middle Earth and leaves all the rest for the future supplements. Quote "Mind like parachute, function only when open." (Charlie Chan) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agentorange Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) In the end, I think that she got it right. For those who express such criticisms, there is Forgotten Realms. A little harsh I feel. To offer criticism ( if valid ) is not wrong. Some things of course are subjective ie: too much info/too little info. But the general consensus does seem to be that more source material would have been welcome. Other criticisms such as the duplication of artwork, typo's etc should I suspect be directed at Chaosium rather than Sarah. I found the comment from Sarah I was talking about further back, here t'is: "This summer I'm working on a Chronicles Player's Guide, hopefully (possibly?) for release later in the year (to be confirmed by Chaosium!). This should be a bigger book, about twice the size of the Chronicles core book, detailing the Venerable Autocracy from a player character's point of view - the various regions, races, temples, with lots of cool detail on the Sakari jeniri and esteri and tons of new magic. It's kind of the "everything you need to know about playing in the Venerable Autocracy" book After that - we haven't spoken in detail yet. I have a near-finished scenario "Vales of Yala", which follows on from the paragraph beginning "The scene through the portal changes..." on p89 of the Chronicles core book - although that's not the only way to get there Also there's "Nightmare in the City of Dreams", which follows on from the end of the Worm Within scenario and is a mini-campaign set in and around Ambara, city of the Shalai time dragons.... a bestiary... gazetteer... the Springtide Civilizations sourcebook... adventure pack #3... lots of stuff still to discuss and pin down in detail!" Now if these supplements appeared I'd buy them without a seconds hesitation, especially the Players guide. What I'm trying to convey though is that I was hoping for that level of detail in the original release, with further releases deepening my knowledge of the various regions and perhaps adding others. I suppose what I'm trying to say is summed up in this line: "It's kind of the "everything you need to know about playing in the Venerable Autocracy book" When I buy a source book I expect to get everything I need to play in that setting in the source book itself, not in a supplement which despite the timescale mentioned doesn't one year later even seem to be on the horizon .......let alone in the shops. Edited January 14, 2012 by Agentorange typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalaba Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Now if these supplements appeared I'd buy them without a seconds hesitation, especially the Players guide. Well, that's a relief - I like it when someone I trust buys the book before me and gives a proper review - that way I know they're being honest in their criticism, and not just singing praise as some reviewers are wont to do. I'm counting on you, now, my friend! Quote "Tell me what you found, not what you lost" Mesopotamian proverb __________________________________ Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agentorange Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Well, that's a relief - I like it when someone I trust buys the book before me and gives a proper review - that way I know they're being honest in their criticism, and not just singing praise as some reviewers are wont to do. I'm counting on you, now, my friend! Well I did like COFE for the reasons I mentioned a couple of posts back, that is it had a great flavour. Perhaps I've been a little harsh because although it was good it could have been great. I find that more frustrating than if it had been shite from start to finish. I can't comment on the Children of the Worm scenario because I'm not a huge fan of PDF's. Also ( and being honest ) since the Chaosium site was hacked awhile back and there seems to be a strong suspicion that they knew about it ( or at least suspected ) but didn't see fit to alert anybody, thus causing me to have to explain to my credit card company that indeed I had not purchased £ 2,000 of goods from Tops Tiles I haven't bought anything from their site. As COTW isn't available from drive thru RPG I can't comment on it. Sarah did write a very nice COFE scenario for one of the scenario compilations I'll post the title later on when I've got my books to hand. Thing is BRP needs some direction ( to my mind at least ) a bit of focus if you will. There's a plethora of great monographs out there, but very little official stuff if you see what I mean. Alephtar games have the rep for good quality historical settings. Now I'm sure they don't want to get pigeon holed just for that, but at the moment they're the go to guys for historical settings, I haven't bought Merrie England yet but it's on my list. So what have Chaosium produced ? Well....BRP core rules, magic book ( the less said about that the better ), Trollslayer ( fun but flawed ), COFE , Mythic Iceland ( also to be bought ) and not much else. Trollslayer was labelled as being dungeon delve 1 on the cover but we've yet to see number 2, COFE supplements seem to have been lost in transit. Classic fantasy is meant to be getting the official treatment, but how far the release date is, is anybodies guess. So....what would be good ? Well, the COFE supplements mentioned above would go a long way to establishing BRP with it's own bespoke setting which I think it needs. Two of the monographs in particular could be turned into official settings, namely: The Green which would provide an alternative fantasy setting.( Incidentally I really liked the Green, I do hope Puck is going to give us more.) And Aces High which would provide a weird west setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalaba Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Perhaps I've been a little harsh because although it was good it could have been great.No, I don't think you were harsh at all. As it happens, I agree with almost every opinion you've expressed over the years, including what you've said about COFE, so I was being sincere. And I would like to buy more Future Earth product, but at this point I'd rather it be independently reviewed first, thanks. Quote "Tell me what you found, not what you lost" Mesopotamian proverb __________________________________ Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosenMcStern Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 A little harsh I feel. Why? Forgotten Realms is fun, I have played at least two computer games and one (virtual) tabletop game set in FR during the last two years. However, if you want something really immersive and evocative, that level of detail may be counter-productive. To me, the presence of little information in the core book is a feature, not a bug. Is it playable? Yes. Does it suggest the possibility of further adventures in strange, yet undescribed places? Yes. Will these places be described later? Yes. So, it is ok. As for new settings, I have reached an informal agreement with two Italian design teams to translate their materials into English in 2013. As detailed before, we have decided to go BRP only with these new settings. One of these two will include at least two books: Sandy Petersen examined the game, and told the authors "Guys, you need to split it in two books". And I tend to trust Sandy's judgement. Quote Proud member of the Evil CompetitionTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbcreighton Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Is the adventure in BRP Adventures "Escape from the Slavelands" in any way related to CoFE ? This is the scenario in the compilation. I ran it as one shot using Fantasy Grounds a year and a half ago. Players really liked it. Hence my question last year. Quote I use fantasygrounds.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbcreighton Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 In the end, I think that she got it right. For those who express such criticisms, there is Forgotten Realms. I think a better analogy might be Dark Sun. The decadent, harsh, and gritty feel of Dark Sun would be closer to CoFE. Because FR is so different from the feel of CoFE your written comments came across as slagging FR. Dark Sun also started as a campaign in small area ( city state) of a larger world, and the world got fleshed out with the supplements that followed. I would probably try to run a campaign set in Dark Sun before trying to set it in in CoFE. Even though I would need to convert the material to BRP, I know the setting material exists for Dark Sun. In order to run a campaign beyond the scenarios in CoFE, I'll have to invent most of the setting. Given my limited time I would rather do the conversion of existing scenarios. I would run the scenarios for CoFE that are available, then wait for more to be published... Now if a company like Alephtar or Cubicle 7 was publishing material for the setting, I would feel confident that more material was on the horizon, and I would be more likely to consider a campaign using it as a setting. Quote I use fantasygrounds.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agentorange Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 This is the scenario in the compilation. I ran it as one shot using Fantasy Grounds a year and a half ago. Players really liked it. Hence my question last year. I don't think so, COFE is a far far future setting. Whereas Slavelands is ( I think ) meant to be a post apocalyptic setting, a sort of 200 years after the bomb sort of thing. That said I think it could easily be adapted for COFE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agentorange Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Why? Forgotten Realms is fun, I have played at least two computer games and one (virtual) tabletop game set in FR during the last two years. Ah, I fear I may of misread you then, it came across that you were dismissing peoples views with a 'well, go and play the other game then' approach. Indeed the internet is an imperfect medium for communication However, if you want something really immersive and evocative, that level of detail may be counter-productive. To me, the presence of little information in the core book is a feature, not a bug. Is it playable? Yes. Does it suggest the possibility of further adventures in strange, yet undescribed places? Yes. Will these places be described later? Yes. So, it is ok. The problem is though, will they be described later ? Even going by Sarah's own admittedly tentative scedule we're falling behind aren't we ? If she is as you commented committed to FATE then the chances of us seeing those places is pretty remote. If that's so and COFE is all we are ever going to get then the level of detail she talks about in the Players Guide is actually what we needed in the original COFE book. As for new settings, I have reached an informal agreement with two Italian design teams to translate their materials into English in 2013. As detailed before, we have decided to go BRP only with these new settings. One of these two will include at least two books: Sandy Petersen examined the game, and told the authors "Guys, you need to split it in two books". And I tend to trust Sandy's judgement. Can you tell us more about this, it sounds interesting ? Sandy Petersen is a gaming god....I think I'd be inclined to trust his judgement too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrad Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Looks like the stuff from Monte Cook's Chaositech would fit in well with the CoFE setting. I wondered when it would come in useful. Edited January 24, 2012 by Conrad Quote http://www.basicrps.com/core/BRP_quick_start.pdf A sense of humour and an imagination go a long way in roleplaying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agentorange Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Update: I spoke with Dustin from Chaosium and he said work on the Players handbook mentioned further up the thread is underway, no release dates though ( not even tentative ones ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrad Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 In the description of Staros the Eternal (TCoFE page 43) it says: "...his temples are bright, cold, empty fanes filled with undead." How can Staros' temples be empty and filled with undead? Quote http://www.basicrps.com/core/BRP_quick_start.pdf A sense of humour and an imagination go a long way in roleplaying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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