Newish GM with questions on a proposed set of sorcerer spells

[Godlearner]

12 minutes ago, Enthar said:

runes and techniques were mastered

Ok, but since the caster no longer has to parry with it, why does it need Mobility?

[Enthar]

13 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

Ok, but since the caster no longer has to parry with it, why does it need Mobility?

That is an excellent point! Ill remove Movement from the rune list, as base illusions can be shifted / moved without needing the movement rune.

Sorcerer's Shield                                      (Illusion)(Earth)(Combination)
3pts
Personal, Passive, Temporal
For the duration of the spell, an invisible shield of illusionary sensation is formed which hovers near the caster.  The base shield has 1 HP and covers one hit location (front or back, but not both for a single point).  Each point of spell strength increases the HP of the shield by 1 or adds one contiguous hit location to the area of protection.  For larger or smaller casters than the human average, adjust the cost of additional hit locations proportionately.  Damage which exceeds the HP of the shield penetrates it to strike the hit location behind it.  If desired, the protected hit locations can be changed by concentrating on the spell for one melee round, as long as they all remain connected.
 

 

I am very happy with how these have worked out 🙂

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Enthar said:

formed which hovers near the caster

This is why you need Movement Rune. If the caster moves, the shield will not, unless you add Movement to it.

[hipsterinspace]

On 3/13/2023 at 10:12 PM, Enthar said:

Further, being a refugee from D&D 5e (as I am, after the kafuffle of a few months ago), she objects to being a swordswomen in full plate with a shield, who happens to cast a bit of sorcery if they have time.  RQG sorcerers definitely are not battle casters and she is learning that the hard way, but perhaps with even a few rounds preparation before a fray she can feel that she contributes without becoming another 'yet another Rune Lord.'

It really sounds like the type of character she should be looking into is a shaman if she wants to cast on the fly. They win pretty easily in terms of both the versatility and economy of their magic when compared to just about anyone. I’m sure you’ve noticed that the ubiquity of magic in RQ makes for a very different experience than casters being what amounts to magic artillery pieces in D&D, but a shaman with Spell Barrage 3 or 4 and Disruption gets pretty close.

The group I play in has a Lunar sorcerer who uses Moonfire (against massed enemies) and Conflagration (against one really tough enemy) pretty frequently and to good effect depending on the phase of the moon, but it’s something that relies on combats that are either so large-scale that the immediate attention is going to be focused away from him, or with enough advance notice that he can drop it on or before the first round. It doesn’t seem very fun to spend 3 melee rounds casting and boosting something that you really wanted 3 rounds ago.

[Shiningbrow]

18 hours ago, Godlearner said:

I am counting at least 2 Techniques and 6 Runes. With most spells costing more than base to cast due to Insight. 

I presume you're including the new Sorcerer's Shield in that list... otherwise, it's only 1 Technique (Summon (or Command)), and perhaps 3 Runes (Death, and 2 Elements (the third is Inferred). Even with SS, it's only an extra 2 Runes (assuming Movement is required).

Sure, it's really going to hit on the the MPs, but it's do-able.

[Shiningbrow]

19 hours ago, Enthar said:

I concur, a melee focused Sorcerer who takes a week to cast season long buffs and then wades into combat can be a formidable foe.  It is just not the character type she wants to play.  It isn't so much effectiveness she is after (although I assure you, she is perfectly capable of munchinking the heck out of things), but style.

Fair enough.

Just a thought...

[Enthar]

12 hours ago, jajagappa said:

This is why you need Movement Rune. If the caster moves, the shield will not, unless you add Movement to it.

Illusory Substance

Can Illusory Substance be used alone to create a solid, invisible substance? For 4 points, could I wield an invisible weapon that deals 2D6 damage?

No, re-read Illusory Substance on RQG 332 / RBM 59. You would need to cast Illusory Motion in tandem with it to be able to move and manipulate your 2D6 invisible weapon. You could create a stationary illusory spike under someone to fall on, but both spells would be needed for something you’d wield in combat.

This, from the Q+A, was also extremely persuasive.  I added Movement Rune back in.

As a follow-up, the player researched the spells, then used SEIT (Smart/Stupid Enhance INT Tricks)  to get the two illusion spells on her for 1 season a piece.  Such is the trickiness of sorcerers, hope that Broo Sorcerer doesn't have a Neutralize Magic up their sleeve... (probably not, given that they are 21 intensity spells, but might scare her with a few attempts at 15% chance)

[Enthar]

3 hours ago, hipsterinspace said:

It really sounds like the type of character she should be looking into is a shaman if she wants to cast on the fly. They win pretty easily in terms of both the versatility and economy of their magic when compared to just about anyone. I’m sure you’ve noticed that the ubiquity of magic in RQ makes for a very different experience than casters being what amounts to magic artillery pieces in D&D, but a shaman with Spell Barrage 3 or 4 and Disruption gets pretty close.

The group I play in has a Lunar sorcerer who uses Moonfire (against massed enemies) and Conflagration (against one really tough enemy) pretty frequently and to good effect depending on the phase of the moon, but it’s something that relies on combats that are either so large-scale that the immediate attention is going to be focused away from him, or with enough advance notice that he can drop it on or before the first round. It doesn’t seem very fun to spend 3 melee rounds casting and boosting something that you really wanted 3 rounds ago.

She did consider the Shaman archetype, but decided on Sorcerer in the end.  As I mentioned above, she seems content to have long duration sorcerer buffs, she just wanted them to be a particular kind of buff that means she doesn't have to spend weeks training the sword to be effective in combat.  Given that happy players = happy campaign, I am content with how it turned out in the end.

Moonfire is an amazing spell, too bad its gated behind Moon rune.   Perhaps if there are casualties (distressingly frequent in RQG) she might consider that.

[Shiningbrow]

On 3/15/2023 at 8:08 PM, Enthar said:

Moonfire is an amazing spell, too bad its gated behind Moon rune.

I wouldn't stress too much about that. It should be relatively common and easy to acquire.

The spell, however, is a vastly different story, and there's not really a good reason to make that easily available... and even if they tried to come up with it themselves, there's not really a good explanation for how a character would even think of it - unless they've seen one in use.

[ChrisJ]

On 3/15/2023 at 5:06 AM, Enthar said:

As a follow-up, the player researched the spells, then used SEIT (Smart/Stupid Enhance INT Tricks)  to get the two illusion spells on her for 1 season a piece.  Such is the trickiness of sorcerers, hope that Broo Sorcerer doesn't have a Neutralize Magic up their sleeve... (probably not, given that they are 21 intensity spells, but might scare her with a few attempts at 15% chance)

In my interpretation I do not include the Duration or Range in the calculation when determining if a Sorcery spell can penetrate magical defenses, nor do I include them when calculating the chance for a spell dispelling them.  This does give some chance of Spirit or Rune magic having an effect on Sorcery magic.  I ran two campaigns with this rule; in the first the PCs were non Sorcerers, and the only ones they encountered were Antagonists or Enemy casters, in the second campaign all the players were Lunar sorcerer's.  In both campaigns I think I only had one successful cancel of a sorcerer's spell - the character in question was depending on a number of long duration spells protecting them and after several successful encounters, felt rather naked after one opponent cancelled their protection from weapons spell.

On the other side, the Orlanthi Rune Lord, learned to use his air elemental to great effect against opposing sorcerers protected with the spell, as the buffeting and pounding caused by an air elemental were considered natural and not weapons.

Edited March 17, 2023 by ChrisJ
Focus on part of quote that was relevant

[Enthar]

35 minutes ago, ChrisJ said:

In my interpretation I do not include the Duration or Range in the calculation when determining if a Sorcery spell can penetrate magical defenses, nor do I include them when calculating the chance for a spell dispelling them.  This does give some chance of Spirit or Rune magic having an effect on Sorcery magic.  I ran two campaigns with this rule; in the first the PCs were non Sorcerers, and the only ones they encountered were Antagonists or Enemy casters, in the second campaign all the players were Lunar sorcerer's.  In both campaigns I think I only had one successful cancel of a sorcerer's spell - the character in question was depending on a number of long duration spells protecting them and after several successful encounters, felt rather naked after one opponent cancelled their protection from weapons spell.

On the other side, the Orlanthi Rune Lord, learned to use his air elemental to great effect against opposing sorcerers protected with the spell, as the buffeting and pounding caused by an air elemental were considered natural and not weapons.

That is an interesting choice, I wonder if removing intensity generally doesn't make sorcery too vulnerable.  She is really only able to get spells up for this kind of duration and power during week(s) long downtime between adventures, and yes, a spirit magic based dispel is going to have a tough time breaking those, but she did spend a week preparing rather than training a skill or attribute.  Seems a fair trade off to me?  Vs the instant cast of Rune spells or the relatively quick (if not cheap) casting of Spirit magic.  In fact, this is the first time she has had anything but Enhance INT up for any length of time.

[ChrisJ]

1 hour ago, Enthar said:

That is an interesting choice, I wonder if removing intensity generally doesn't make sorcery too vulnerable.  She is really only able to get spells up for this kind of duration and power during week(s) long downtime between adventures, and yes, a spirit magic based dispel is going to have a tough time breaking those, but she did spend a week preparing rather than training a skill or attribute.  Seems a fair trade off to me?  Vs the instant cast of Rune spells or the relatively quick (if not cheap) casting of Spirit magic.  In fact, this is the first time she has had anything but Enhance INT up for any length of time.

 

To be clear the effect intensity is what counts - I only lowered the total by any additions due to Range and Duration.  Initially because I thought it stupid that a spell amplified for range would be any better at penetrating countermagic (against a PC), and then formalized when the PCs encountered the same caster later for revenge.

As I said - the campaign that the PC's played sorcerers was only one of the campaigns, and I carried over my interpretation from the campaign where the PC's were only meeting opponent sorcerers.  Even in that campaign it takes quite a determined opponent to drop a sorcery spell, and I made sure that the PCs knew that their opponent was one whom could dispel their defenses.  Still it takes a lot of rune points or a large spirit magic spell to attempt, and I only did it once, after giving them several encounters worth of fun to appreciate their power.

With a number of MP matrix or spirits to draw MP from that week's downtime can be a matter of days, which is similar to that of Rune Priests recovering RP.  Still the sorcerer isn't letting off lightning bolts on SR1, a modest sorcery spell takes a few rounds to cast (and often at a lower % than a Rune Spell).

Chris

[Shiningbrow]

9 hours ago, ChrisJ said:

With a number of MP matrix or spirits to draw MP from that week's downtime can be a matter of days, which is similar to that of Rune Priests recovering RP.  Still the sorcerer isn't letting off lightning bolts on SR1, a modest sorcery spell takes a few rounds to cast (and often at a lower % than a Rune Spell).

Precisely!

Sorcery is great - if you're patient and a plan ahead type of person.

It totally sucks if you want great power in the thick of things.

Not only due to casting time, but also because you're most likely to have quite low chances of casting... the majority of PCs aren't going to have even onespell that can be cast at the same percentage as the lowest of Spirit or Rune magic spells.

 

OTOH, once you've gone on a HQ to get your new, fandangled "Inspiration" Rune Spell*, that doubles your INT for 2 POW (basically, the INT version of Charisma, Bear's Strength, etc), you're rocking! (once or twice a season :p) Add to that the Inscriptions, and the POW-Enhancing crystal (that can be increased through further HQs), and you're well on your way to taking over a small section of the lozenge!

 

(I think I'll start a new thread about this...)