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Humakti Duel Advice and Tactics


Rodney Dangerduck

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On 3/19/2023 at 3:21 PM, svensson said:

The challenge must be public. To do otherwise is to plot secret murder.

Disagree about this - secret murder isn’t killing someone where others can’t see it, it’s keeping it secret afterwards.

That said, having it public, using seconds, and so on, will help make things clearer.

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10 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

No, killing in a duel isn't secret murder. I think there's some rule that you can't pass more than two houses before approaching one of them to inform them that you just killed someone, and then it's not secret murder, not that it was murder anyway. So you should be able avoid the dead person's closest and most vengeful kin if you're worried that they will just kill you in revenge. Maybe that was a Viking rule, I might be muddling that up.

I believe this is Icelandic law. But it’s a nice one with MGF value to it.

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4 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Disagree about this - secret murder isn’t killing someone where others can’t see it, it’s keeping it secret afterwards.

That said, having it public, using seconds, and so on, will help make things clearer.

That was my intention for the rule. The idea was to air grievances in the open and reduce feuds.

You're right to say that one of the aspects of secret murder is lying or not admitting your deeds, the holmgang rules were designed to recognize that Norse culture was a violent one, that some grievances could only be settled in blood, and that feuds and weregeld claims against a whole clan for the actions of one man were counter productive. By bringing those grievances out into the open and settling them in an open and witnessed manner, there was less likelihood of generational bad blood.

Edited by svensson
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On 3/18/2023 at 10:54 PM, Rodney Dangerduck said:

As a bit of a followup to my own question, I could really see this becoming like chess openings.  A bunch of Humakti are sparring at temple, and boasting of their previous duels:

"Of course, I opened with the Ruy Lopez, best by test!  Alain countered with the Deferred Steinitz defense (each of these meaning some combination and order of rune spells and spirit magic named after a previous Humakt Hero).  My Ally launched the Duras variation".

Why boast of previous duels, when you can boast while duelling?

Inigo Montoya: “You are using Bonetti’s Defense against me, ah?”

Man in Black: “I thought it fitting, considering the rocky terrain.”

Inigo: “Naturally, you must suspect me to attack with Capa Ferro?”

Man in Black: “Naturally, but I find that Thibault cancels out Capa Ferro. Don’t you?”

Inigo: “Unless the enemy has studied his Agrippa… which I have.”

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6 hours ago, MOB said:

Sure, but there's a difference between duelling with a Humakti and fighting a Humakti duel. Unless both parties are at least lay members of Humakti, they're not fighting a "Humatki Duel".

How exactly do you become not a lay member of Humakt if you can wield a sword?

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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21 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

I don't get this... especially since most duels aren't to the death. There would be nothing wrong with a non-public duel.

Humakti champions are typically supported by the community, who will want to get some entertainment out of their tax dollars. So certainly the default will be public duels, with holding them in private being a rare exception that would need to be agreed by both parties.

Duel to first blood, or first fall, is still perfectly capable of ending in death. if that happens, failing to have arranged obviously neutral witnesses would be extremely suspicious behavior that would likely attract the attention of other Humakti. After all, Humakti sometimes treat a duel as a valid form of divination. Did they do it? Fight and find out.

In OrlanthI clan territories, the lawspeakers love to get involved in duels, and will be able to quote the details of 5 different sets of dueling rules, and 8 cases of precedents for exceptions to each.

In more civilized lands, especially Esrolia, the humakti duel is more or less explicitly a form of public entertainment, with any other reason for fighting being secondary. Often two popular champions who everyone wants to see fight will manufacture an excuse to do so. In a somewhat mocking reference to the rural habit of cattle raiding, this is known as a 'beef'.

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

"Humakt is for pansies who try to tell others what ways they're allowed to attack them. Pah, the Bull is enough for me!"

Picking up the sword (as a youth) usually gets you into contact with Humakti trainers. Few storm khans will be willing to take a season off chaos-fighting to train hopeless newbies how to fight with a sword.

10 minutes ago, DrGoth said:

By being a lay member of Yanafal Tarnils?

"You call that a sword? Get bent!"

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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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4 hours ago, Joerg said:

How exactly do you become not a lay member of Humakt if you can wield a sword?

You don't:

  • Take the Honor Passion if you don't already have it
  • Uphold the Code of Humakt
  • Attend worship ceremonies and donate a magic point
  • Tithe 10% of your income every season
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1 minute ago, David Scott said:

You don't:

  • Take the Honor Passion if you don't already have it
  • Uphold the Code of Humakt
  • Attend worship ceremonies and donate a magic point
  • Tithe 10% of your income every season

Tithing the initiate's portion as a lay member?  I never noticed that (but then somehow the cult of Humakt has not featured as a player option in my games yet).

Attending the worship ceremonies and donating a magic point is probably hard to avoid in a typical Humakt-worshipping environment, and some donation in exchange for partaking some of the sacrificial meat is a done deal for many, too. Serving in the fyrd or a city militia will likely involve these. Upholding the Code of Humakt is the Orlanthi equivalent of upholding the Geneva Conventions.

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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24 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Tithing the initiate's portion as a lay member?

Specifically:

  • Lay members tithe 10% of their current silver. So not part of the Sacred Time maths.
  • Initiates tithe 10% of their silver. So part of the Sacred Time maths.

 

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18 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

RQG source? It's not listed under the requirements (which are described as "minimal").

Cults of RuneQuest, The Lightbringers...

For those without time travel, see Cults of Prax (classic), page 34 (it's the same...)

Edited by David Scott
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It's easy to forget that that RQG is based on RQ2. Cults of Prax & Terror are effectively foundational documents for the upcoming cults books. The texts are effectively updated to support RQG, and the art is decades ahead. If you want the full cult write ups for cults present in the Core Rules, then CoP is the way to go until CoR is released. If a cult isn't present and you have access the the Avalon Hill Gods of Glorantha use that version. The only mistake you can really make is to use any of the Hero Wars cults.

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10 minutes ago, David Scott said:

It's easy to forget that that RQG is based on RQ2. Cults of Prax & Terror are effectively foundational documents for the upcoming cults books. The texts are effectively updated to support RQG, and the art is decades ahead. If you want the full cult write ups for cults present in the Core Rules, then CoP is the way to go until CoR is released. If a cult isn't present and you have access the the Avalon Hill Gods of Glorantha use that version. The only mistake you can really make is to use any of the Hero Wars cults.

With the caveat that Cults of Prax provides cult ranks no longer supported in RQG, like rune priests of Humakt, and that both RQ2/Classic and Cults of Prax are confusing when it comes to POW cost as "temporary" and "permanent" POW.

Rhethoric question: Is it honorable to loan a fellow adventurer a hefty amount of silver or to leave that silver at home before participating in a Humakti sacrifice/service as a lay member?

Real question: If you attend a worship rite to a deity, donate your MP and offer some entrance fee ("tithe"), doesn't that make you a lay worshiper?

Edited by Joerg

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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2 minutes ago, Joerg said:

With the caveat that Cults of Prax provides cult ranks no longer supported in RQG, like rune priests of Humakt, and that both RQ2/Classic and Cults of Prax are confusing when it comes to POW cost as "temporary" and "permanent" POW.

As I said you want the full cult write ups for cults present in the Core Rules, then CoP is the way to go. Don't update the mechanics that are already present, use the Core Rules mechanics. In the case of Humakt, you'd just look at the lay member requirements, as Rune Lords are already covered. 

2 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Rhethoric question: Is it honorable to loan a fellow adventurer a hefty amount of silver or to leave that silver at home before participating in a Humakti sacrifice/service as a lay member?

The question is not about honour, but honesty. Item three in the Humakti code is maintain strict truth and confidence with one another. A dishonest lay member will be okay until caught out... Note that CoP says many use this as an excuse to go on sprees just before the holy day.

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12 minutes ago, David Scott said:

The question is not about honour, but honesty. Item three in the Humakti code is maintain strict truth and confidence with one another. A dishonest lay member will be okay until caught out... Note that CoP says many use this as an excuse to go on sprees just before the holy day.

Given that much of Humakt's reason for existence [and an awful lot of his magic] deals with his Truth Rune, 'honesty' and 'honor' are closely intertwined in a Humakti context.

Every deity in Glorantha knows when their worshipers of Initiate rank or better is being 'honest' with cult duties. If you go on a spending spree and buy unnecessary things the day before your cult tithe is due, it will adversely effect your relationship with the deity. There are many ways that this can play out in game. Perhaps it's a 'come to Orlanth' talking to by your local priest. Perhaps the PC is required to put in an extra week of cult service. Perhaps it's your next Rune spell casting becoming a one-use spell. Perhaps it's being briefly visited by the cult's spirit of reprisal. But if a PC makes a habit of being duplicitous with their cult they can expect to automatically fail any test of holiness to be promoted in the cult at the very minimum.

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19 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Given the extremely limited benefits from Lay Membership, how are people motivated to pay a fairly substantial yearly 10% wealth tax?

It's not per year, it's per holy day attended, and only current silver, not the fully 10% of your income.

19 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

The benefits don't seem at all commensurate.

Half price sword and dagger training is enough! But they also train Battle, Craft (Bronze), First Aid, Meditate, Orate, Ride, and Scan for half-price too.

Edited by David Scott

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26 minutes ago, David Scott said:

Half price sword and dagger training is enough! But they also train Battle, Craft (Bronze), First Aid, Meditate, Orate, Ride, and Scan for half-price too.

Essentially a Humakt temple is the de-facto mercenary guild. You pay your copper and say a few respectful words. In return you get to use the training facilities. You get to hang out in the bar where you hear the rumors of who is hiring, and which jobs you would be wise to turn down.

There are probably some places outside dragon pass where it has completely lost its religious roots and functions as a purely secular organisation. Such places are naturally rife with spirits cults and secret societies.

 

 

Edited by radmonger
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58 minutes ago, radmonger said:

Essentially a Humakt temple is the de-facto mercenary guild. You pay your copper and say a few respectful words. In return you get to use the training facilities. You get to hang out in the bar where you hear the rumors of who is hiring, and which jobs you would be wise to turn down.

There are probably some places outside dragon pass where it has completely lost its religious roots and functions as a purely secular organisation. Such places are naturally rife with spirits cults and secret societies.

I can see the argument for mercs, but not for your regular honorable sword-using Orlanth-initiated warrior. 10% of wealth per season is a shocking amount of money (well, assuming you have any wealth). At least if "current silver" means actual wealth and not merely actual current silver pennies (in which case you should get yourself jewelry, keep your wealth in Wheels & Clacks, or other similar silliness).

Edited by Akhôrahil
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