Humakti Duel Advice and Tactics

[radmonger]

Just now, Akhôrahil said:

I can see the argument for mercs, but not for your regular honorable sword-using Orlanth-initiated warrior.

This brings up the distinction between cities and clans. In a rural orlanthi clan, every farmer who owns a weapon is at least a lay member, and usually an initiate, of Orlanth at the clan temple. When they train in the clan militia, they are doing so in the context of the clan, and so the cult governing  what is going on is Orlanth. This applies even if their trainer happens to be a Humakti, Yelmalian or whatever; religiously they are taking on the role of one of Orlanth's kin. And for training in sword, you want to get that form Humakt. So even if the trainer is a Vingan or whatever, they are taking on the role of Orlanth's sword champion. 

The exceptions are those clans where Orlanth is not Ernalda's husband-protector, e.g. the Telmori. But I don't think rural Telmori use swords.

in a city, which i think is the default assumption of the RQ:G rules, cults are often more discrete organisations resembling professional guilds. A healer and their caravan guard brother go along to different temples, and never share the secrets they learn there.

Which means for a farmer living in or near a city, there is always a tension that comes form living between two worlds. You probably don't routinely need weapons training and magic so much. But it will still be available at the Orlanth temple you are initiated to. Even if you find that doesn't quite meet your needs, that's the tradition.

During the occupation, the Lunars shut that down, in favor of a stricter division between Humakt and Barntar temples. While you will deny it later, at the time you maybe didn't really mind all that much

[David Scott]

34 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

I can see the argument for mercs, but not for your regular honorable sword-using Orlanth-initiated warrior. 10% of wealth per season is a shocking amount of money (well, assuming you have any wealth). At least if "current silver" means actual wealth and not merely actual current silver pennies (in which case you should get yourself jewelry, keep your wealth in Wheels & Clacks, or other similar silliness).

Current silver is the Lunars / Guilders in your pocket. The Swords want useful cash not your trinkets, small change, booty or goods. If you are deliberately converting your silver to avoid paying up, you've broken the Humakti code. Looking at the Humakti lay members in my game Storm Bull 7L, Storm Bull none, Orlanth Adventurous 25L, Odayla 98L. Some of them have money held at their temples or with the merchant, but that's not an avoidance scheme that's practical adventuring kit. One of them has the merchant deal with all their finances and carries no cash. She decided to pay 10L at the last Humakti holy day they attended, and they don't go to all of them.

See how Vasana acts as a Humakt lay member is the Starter set soloquest. Otherwise Humakt lay membership concerns are a storm in a teacup. 

[Rodney Dangerduck]

Now going way way OT.  Our RQG group completely dropped all these 10% tithes, because they were so open to these tax avoidance schemes.  A PC is carrying 1000s of lunars in armor, weapons, gems and magic, but only 47L cash.  Classic Murder Hobo crap.

Especially since one of our players is a business lawyer IRL, it just seemed extremely MINIMUM GAME FUN.

We also do little training for similar reasons.  Boring and often munchkinnery.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Rodney Dangerduck

[Joerg]

16 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

A PC is carrying 1000s of lunars in armor, weapons, gems and magic, but only 47L cash.  Classic Murder Hobo crap.

Next thing is that you suggest that you have to give one tenth of your land and housing in tithe each year? Armor and weapons are a fighter's equivalent to a farmer's land, as is magic, and taxing clothes did never catch on either.

The book Montaillou tells how Pyrenaean herders chose cathar heresy with the very imminent risk of getting burned at the stake over giving the bishop every tenth lamb in tithes, rather than just every tenth lamb after the herd was replenished.

[Akhôrahil]

35 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Now going way way OT.  Our RQG group completely dropped all these 10% tithes, because they were so open to these tax avoidance schemes.  A PC is carrying 1000s of lunars in armor, weapons, gems and magic, but only 47L cash.  Classic Murder Hobo crap.

Especially since one of our players is a business lawyer IRL, it just seemed extremely MINIMUM GAME FUN.

We also do little training for similar reasons.  Boring and often munchkinnery.

I count Lay Memberships as being 1% each for time and money, but rounded to the closest 10% step (so usually 0%).

And I did indeed houserule the Training system to be very different as well as integrated with Seasonal experience (essentially, Research allows you to pick Seasonal Experience in a skill you otherwise couldn't have, and Training gives you a bonus, commonly the teacher's Communication bonus, to the experience roll for one or more seasonal experience checks on skills being trained).

[soltakss]

17 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Depends on the exact phrasing - you can target a spell without targeting the object of it, technically.

Anyone who relies on exact phrasing is mealy-mouthing their way out of Honour.

12 hours ago, Joerg said:

How exactly do you become not a lay member of Humakt if you can wield a sword?

Zorak Zorani or Vivamorti who wield swords would disagree.

7 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

RQG source? It's not listed under the requirements (which are described as "minimal").

RQG is not the complete and entire store of knowledge for RuneQuest, no matter what some people like to think.

5 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Given the extremely limited benefits from (a normally optional) Lay Membership, how are people motivated to pay a fairly substantial yearly 10% wealth tax? The benefits don't seem at all commensurate.

Not everyone is motivated by "What can I get out of the cult" when thinking about joining.

Also, Humakt used to teach Bladesharp for free, but I can't remember if that was Lay Members or Initiates.

[hipsterinspace]

8 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Also, Humakt used to teach Bladesharp for free, but I can't remember if that was Lay Members or Initiates.

Initiates can get up to 4 points for free in the RQG rules.

[svensson]

On 3/21/2023 at 12:20 PM, hipsterinspace said:

Initiates can get up to 4 points for free in the RQG rules.

IMGU, those points don't happen all at once. They happen at a 1 point per year rate up to the max of 4 free. My reasoning is this:

- Humakt only has one source for spell-teaching, the Swords that lead the cult. There is no priestly or shamanic support for these tasks. And spell-teaching is a major activity for Swords, but that's in addition to running a mercenary hall, leading the temple company in battle, and skill training.

- It requires the initiate to show a devotion to cult of Humakt, the Runic ideals of Death and Truth, and to the temple hierarchy.

So the only way that a starting PC would get all 4 free points of Bladesharp AND the 5 additional points of Spirit magic is for the PC to have initiated into Humakt at age 15-16... Humakt being their first cult. [IMG, I allow PCs to initiate into a second cult at age 20 if they sacrifice the point of POW - - they get 1 RP in the second cult, but no other training or magical benefits until they've adventure for a year]

Edited April 9, 2023 by svensson

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

13 hours ago, Joerg said:

How exactly do you become not a lay member of Humakt if you can wield a sword?

Zorak Zorani or Vivamorti who wield swords would disagree.

There is nothing to forbid ZZ types to wield swords (except in troll ball games). But ZZ picked up Death in axe shape, and then blunted it. Using the symbol of the other cult may be seen either as malign appropriation (similar to taking fire from Yelmalio, and a possible outcome of Hill of Gold questing), or as acknowledging Humakt.

It would be a brave Vivamorti to wave about a holy symbol of Death that might be invoked by any death worshiper facing them. Curved blades might be preferable.

[Bill the barbarian]

To teh comment that 

Quote

 

Given that much of Humakt's reason for existence [and an awful lot of his magic] deals with his Truth Rune, 'honesty' and 'honor' are closely intertwined in a Humakti context.

 

In  one's own game perhaps. Not necessarily so in my game.

[David Scott]

14 hours ago, hipsterinspace said:

Initiates can get up to 4 points for free in the RQG rules.

Per the Q&A

Does this mean a new Humakti adventurer has Bladesharp 4 plus the normal 5 spirit magic points, for a total of 9 points of spirit magic?

No, this is clarified in the Cults of RuneQuest, The Lightbringers:

Quote

Those that have been an initiate for a full year are taught Bladesharp 4 for free, and more points in the spell may be purchased at ½ cost later.

Cults of RuneQuest, The Lightbringers

[Akhôrahil]

22 minutes ago, David Scott said:

Per the Q&A

Does this mean a new Humakti adventurer has Bladesharp 4 plus the normal 5 spirit magic points, for a total of 9 points of spirit magic?

No, this is clarified in the Cults of RuneQuest, The Lightbringers:

Quote

Those that have been an initiate for a full year are taught Bladesharp 4 for free, and more points in the spell may be purchased at ½ cost later.

Cults of RuneQuest, The Lightbringers

The minmax character design is to start the game without Bladesharp, and pick up your free 4-point Bladesharp ASAP.

(Both for this and for your one per five years Spirit Magic, it matters at what age you were initiated. I vacilate between 16 and 18 as a default, but the minmax choice is 17.)

Edited March 22, 2023 by Akhôrahil

[Bren]

5 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

I vacilate between 16 and 18 as a default, but the minmax choice is 17.)

Why is age 17 better for minmax? (Asking for a friend.)

[Akhôrahil]

16 hours ago, Bren said:

Why is age 17 better for minmax? (Asking for a friend.)

It means that if you start at the default 21 years of age (or any +5 increment of it, as per the rules for older characters), the next year will be a factor of five years since initiation, granting you a free point of Spirit Magic.

[Bren]

Gotcha. Thanks. 😀