A question re spending Luck.

[DamonJynx]

In last nights game one of the players failed their INT roll to avoid a bout of madness by 5 points and wanted to spend 6 points to avoid it. I initially said yes, but after a brief discussion at the table, I changed my decision to no based on the interpretation of the rules that Luck could be spent to ‘improve’ a roll, not worsen it.

On checking the rules, the actual wording is, Luck can be spent to alter a roll.

What is the consensus here, can you spend luck on this INT roll?

[TheophilusCarter]

You are quite correct: it does say "alter."  Since it explicitly lists the things that one is prohibited from spending Luck on, and since the INT roll isn't one of those things, I'd allow it.

[DamonJynx]

1 hour ago, TheophilusCarter said:

Since it explicitly lists the things that one is prohibited from spending Luck on, and since the INT roll isn't one of those things, I'd allow it.

This is my current thinking as well... Though some might argue the INT roll is 'part' of the SAN roll sequence and therefore it shouldn't be allowed.

[TheophilusCarter]

30 minutes ago, DamonJynx said:

This is my current thinking as well... Though some might argue the INT roll is 'part' of the SAN roll sequence and therefore it shouldn't be allowed.

Hmm, that's interesting, I hadn't thought about it that way.  I could definitely see a legit GM ruling either way.  I'd probably stick with the most bare minimum literal interpretation, and allow the INT roll, if only to keep my player happy.  😄.   Very curious to hear if there's an official ruling, though.

[ColoradoCthulhu]

I found this on page 99 of the Keeper Rulebook under the section 'Spending Luck':

Luck points may not be spent on Luck rolls, damage rolls, Sanity rolls, or rolls to determine the amount of Sanity points lost. A player may spend any amount of Luck points (up to their current Luck value) on a roll. A player may only spend Luck to alter one of their own dice rolls.

The application of this rule is also built into Fantasy Grounds (we play CoC entirely online) which does not offer the option of spending Luck to alter INT roll related to Sanity checks.

@Mike M may want to comment here.

[DamonJynx]

1 hour ago, ColoradoCthulhu said:

or rolls to determine the amount of Sanity points lost. A player may spend any amount of Luck points (up to their current Luck value) on a roll. A player may only spend Luck to alter one of their own dice rolls.

Hi Colarado, that’s the passage I read. As far as I’m aware, only the SAN roll determines the # of SAN points lost; the INT roll’s only function is to determine the outcome of the SAN loss. it would be good to have an ‘official’ POV. Perhaps that’s the intent of that passage…

[KarlF]

For my (insert small currency denomination here) worth I would allow it - it is not a Sanity roll per se and they're not changing the number of Sanity points lost i.e. they're still going insane, just avoiding the bout of madness

[EldorfDragonsbane]

On 5/21/2023 at 12:38 AM, ColoradoCthulhu said:

Luck points may not be spent on Luck rolls, damage rolls, Sanity rolls, or rolls to determine the amount of Sanity points lost. A player may spend any amount of Luck points (up to their current Luck value) on a roll. A player may only spend Luck to alter one of their own dice rolls.

I read this as any roll for sanity, including the initial roll vs intelligence are exempt for using luck, as that is the Sanity roil, after that you roll to see sanity loss.

[EricW]

What about using luck to influence the form of insanity? You could use luck to pick one of the insanities which allow them to function, kindof, like a mania for magic. Of course the downside is if they appear too functional, their fellow party members might not notice they are now in many respects a danger to the party.

[DamonJynx]

23 hours ago, EldorfDragonsbane said:

I read this as any roll for sanity, including the initial roll vs intelligence are exempt for using luck, as that is the Sanity roil, after that you roll to see sanity loss.

Indeed, I'd already considered that,  from my reply to Theo above, "This is my current thinking as well... Though some might argue the INT roll is 'part' of the SAN roll sequence and therefore it shouldn't be allowed."

It would be good to have an official response...

Edited May 24 by DamonJynx

[EricW]

If anything INT should be a penalty on SAN rolls. Intelligence does not equal sanity. Smart people have more chance of grasping the full implications of what they see.

[DamonJynx]

30 minutes ago, EricW said:

If anything INT should be a penalty on SAN rolls. Intelligence does not equal sanity. Smart people have more chance of grasping the full implications of what they see.

Hi Eric, the question is; if a player has an INT of 70 and they are rolling to avoid a bout of madness and roll 65 - a result which means they enter the bout of madness, can they spend 6 points of Luck to alter the roll to be a failure so they avoid the bout of madness. I think we're all aware that being a dumbass in Cthulhu is preferable to being a genius when it comes to SAN rolls...😉

[Mike M]

Luck should not be spent on INT rolls for Sanity consequences (it goes against the spirit of the rules). But, it's your game, so do what you think best for your game folks. 

 

[DamonJynx]

4 hours ago, Mike M said:

Luck should not be spent on INT rolls for Sanity consequences (it goes against the spirit of the rules). But, it's your game, so do what you think best for your game folks. 

 

Thanks Mike. I'll take that on board. BTW, Congrats on the great work you and the team are doing with CoC. I'm relatively new to the game (got the core books and some adventures for my birthday March last year) and I'm absolutely loving it. This is now my preferred game.

 

[ColoradoCthulhu]

11 hours ago, Mike M said:

Luck should not be spent on INT rolls for Sanity consequences (it goes against the spirit of the rules). But, it's your game, so do what you think best for your game folks. 

 

Thank you, Mike. This was my thought as well. Although not explicitly stated in the rule book, spending Luck to affect a Sanity roll in any way doesn't seem to be the intention of the rules for Sanity in Call of Cthulhu.

[DamonJynx]

I'm yet to discuss this with my group but I think I will allow it. I get that it may not be "in the spirit of the rules"; the origial game did not allow for Luck to be spent to alter rolls at all, what you rolled was what you rolled. I think in any game, if players have the option to alter outcomes by spending resources they should be allowed to do so. Resource management and player agency are, I believe, fundamental to a good game - it's a win for the player and builds tension as resources dwindle...

Group Luck rolls can be a bitch...