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help with heroquest idea?


Snugz

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Hello, a spoiler in case my players are on here-- don't read on, guys!

Spoiler

I am trying to write an Arkati (the Saviour) heroquest starting in Azilos (Ralios), 1625, initiated by Foyalfine. He's selfishly trying to improve himself (i.e. become more of an Arkat Saviour hero as a Proven Appearance), and willing/needing to bring along companions. My idea is for him to be protagonist god on the main quest (probably Lightbringer?), then (as enticement for PCs), to come across a crossroads station where PCs can get off and go on their own self-led heroquest that leads to better allegiance with draconic beings. (one reason for this whole quest being that I want to illustrate this Arkati practice)  Of course, this would involve using the Eye of Worlds and might end (or start?) with Foyalfine (as has been written) being "surprised when Arkat steps through" it. I'm a little stuck on ideas though. There are a lot of quests to choose from, but I'm not thinking of a great way to link 2. Any brainstorm ideas, please? It would be much appreciated.

 

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4 minutes ago, John Biles said:

If they're in Ralios, there's a bunch of pretenders to the throne of Arkat running about.  Have two show up and try to sway Foyalfine to follow their individual roads.

 

Yes, I'm going with Archon Foyalfine's competitor Erengazor as using this as fuel for his fire that Foyalfine is Arkat the Traitor, not Saviour.  (after this quest)

(Foyalfine's quest unwittingly ends up connecting with Nysalor/Gbaji, hijacked by Argin Terror/Arkat Deceiver and his agents; but PCs don't learn that until sometime later after Foyalfine withdraws from the Dangan Alliance at the battle of Dangk.)

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I don't feel Arkat and dragons would mix well - you're more likely to end up with air, death and darkness assotiations denpending on where you're starting.

Of course illumination can and will lead to weird mixes but i'd save draconic stuff for way laterr.

 

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4 hours ago, Snugz said:

Hello, a spoiler in case my players are on here-- don't read on, guys!

Why the Lightbringer Quest?  Perhaps try a Humakt or Zorak Zoran Hero Quest?  They are both deities associated with Arkat.  If Foyalfine were questing for the Unbreakable Sword, then it would make sense that he meet Arkat, who is likely still the owner of it.  There could be no better proof of his status as an Arkati than to own such a weapon.  

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The motivation sounds a bit off? If there is one defining trait of Arkat it is that his focus was utterly on his quest. He didn't want to selfishly do anything, every act was dedicated to purging the world of the influence of Gbaji. In the end he gave up everything to achieve his goal - his honour, his humanity, and who knows what else. 

Gbaji was selfish, self indulgent, power hungry, putting his needs before others solely for his own aggrandisement.

Is your hero quester seeking more power to achieve a goal, to defeat a chaos foe? Or do they just want to be more powerful. Because if it's the latter, it might not be Arkat they encounter on the heroplane. 

 

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4 hours ago, Darius West said:

Why the Lightbringer Quest?  Perhaps try a Humakt or Zorak Zoran Hero Quest?  They are both deities associated with Arkat.  If Foyalfine were questing for the Unbreakable Sword, then it would make sense that he meet Arkat, who is likely still the owner of it.  There could be no better proof of his status as an Arkati than to own such a weapon.  

Oh I didn't mean LBQ; I meant from that pantheon's myths. Mainly because there are more of them available to use as inspiration. But yes, something like ZZ would work, too; in the latter case though there's not much available, aside from Hill of Gold. (unless playing as an enemy in another heroquest, which would be bold to say the least)

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4 hours ago, EricW said:

Is your hero quester seeking more power to achieve a goal, to defeat a chaos foe? Or do they just want to be more powerful. Because if it's the latter, it might not be Arkat they encounter on the heroplane. 

 

Well put. As I understand Archon Foyalfine from various written material out there, he is for example (from GtG) "Ambitious and frustrated". I think it's both; he wants to be The Proven Arkat and unite Ralios, perhaps at a great cost to others, and to do that he needs to be more powerful.

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3 hours ago, Snugz said:

As I understand Archon Foyalfine from various written material out there, he is for example (from GtG) "Ambitious and frustrated". I think it's both; he wants to be The Proven Arkat and unite Ralios, perhaps at a great cost to others, and to do that he needs to be more powerful.

So for this type of quest, rather than trying to figure out which myth that may be available fits best, I suggest starting with a basic premise: 

  • "I need to get the X in order to prove I am Arkat and reunite the Dark Empire." (I use "Dark Empire" here since that's Ralios when Arkat ruled it.)

That leads to two questions:

  1. "What is X and why does it prove I am Arkat?"
  2. "Where did Arkat find X?" (And that place presumably somewhere in the God Time.)

Here Nick Brooke's A History of Malkionism becomes an invaluable reference. What you're looking for is the iconography of Arkat and associated references. The picture on p.29 shows Arkat banished by Gerlant Flamesword and Arkat wears a helm, carries his sword, bears a shield (with the image of two crowns - something seen on his pennant in the picture on p.27), has dark boots, and wears a gold-trimmed purple cloak.

For instance, p.30: "The people of Arkat’s Dark Empire followed his Stygian Heresy, revering dark gods and arcane secrets. The Stygian heretics do not accept that Arkat fell. They say that after leaving Malkionism he climbed to higher secrets, which he taught his followers. They claim that these secrets allow them to combine the worship of other deities with that of the Invisible God."

Also useful is the Guide p.718-726 as it covers more details on Arkat.

Consider this image of Arkat (p.724). "On the left side, riding a storm cloud, is the semi-human Arkat, carrying the Unbreakable Sword, the Mace of Hatred, and wearing his Necklace of Skulls and Lost Heart. He is iconographically similar to how the Dara Happans depict Rebellus Terminus, except with black skin, flaming hair, and the three eyes."  

Now the Unbreakable Sword is not likely obtainable (it may be the sword wielded by Hahlgrim in Dorastor). Arkat's Third Eye is that of Illumination, so not something just to gain on a quest. The black skin, red palms, and flaming hair are symbolic of a demon - likely Foyalfine does not want to go in that direction.

The Mace of Hatred probably has to be obtained from Zorak Zoran - might not be the first choice for a quest.

So, let's say X is the gold-trimmed purple cloak (see icon snippet below from Nick's work, picture by Katrin Dirim.) Where would you get such? Well, Arkat is from Brithos, which is the west and where the descended to. Luathela with the Gates of Dusk might be a good place - get a piece of Yelm's "Cloth of Gold" as he passes through and before it is gone. You've got to get past the Luatha though.

Now, once you figure out what it is you want, and where it might be, plot out the path to get it. What's a good starting point? The Murder of Yelm in the Golden Palace. Yelm disintegrates - you've got to pick which of the Six Paths to follow. Yelm descends and the trail burns behind him, so you've got to find an alternate path - and that leads you to your Crossroads and the Riddling Raven (see Arcane Lore, p.112). (I particularly like the Crossroads as it gives your PC's a chance to solve Riddles - if they get all three, they get the right directions; if not, then they get varying degrees of likelihood to get a road that could get there, or go totally opposite. Plus behind the Riddling Raven stands one of the Arkati - the shadow figures who protect certain points in the Hero Plane from harm.) There's at least one more barrier after that. Maybe it's the Western Sea and you need Mother Turtle to cross - for this bit draw on the LBQ crossing the water. Maybe Eurmal is nearby getting hanged - you probably need to rescue him, unless he's already with you. Then sneak past the Luathan guards to get the piece of Yelm's cloak that hasn't burned up yet. You still need to figure out the return from Luatha - probably easier if you don't go to Hell. 🙂 Maybe the Luathans have flying carpets or magical griffins/winged horses or perhaps summon a storm cloud to bear you home?

Other objects will have different stories of course, but hopefully this gives some idea of how you could progress.

(We could now name this myth/story as "Arkat and the Cloak of Dusk." Nysalor/Gbaji - i.e. the heroquest foe/villain - would of course appear at the Murder of Yelm, perhaps even 'suggesting' to Arkat to undertake some act/oath that has consequences later. And the villain could also denounce Arkat to the Luatha. Lots of good rollplaying opportunities with that.)

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Edited by jajagappa
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4 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Maybe the Luathans have flying carpets or magical griffins/winged horses or perhaps summon a storm cloud to bear you home?

Of course there's also the classic "into the belly of the beast" journey home (ala Jonah and the Whale). In this case consider flight to the Waertagi docks and having to dive into the maws of their Sea Dragon ship. This gets you the "Underworld"/"out of the depths" return without going to Hell. Plus the ship can disgorge you at Sog City or wherever Arkat originally landed making a reasonable conclusion to the quest. What you find in the belly of the Sea Dragon is a question, but seems like it would fit with your interest in connecting Arkat and the dragons.

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I love that, thanks a bunch! Cloak of Dusk is perfect. The PCs were just at the Gates of Dusk as part of the Boat Planet quest, and did a lot with the Luathans, so I'd have to be creative to make it less of a repetition. I *really* don't (and am sure they don't) want to have them go into the Underworld as they've done that twice already (again, w/Boat Planet just 2 seasons ago). They have had many (friendly) associations with the Waertagi, including w/the Boat Planet, so the return home w/them works. I was already thinking of bringing in the Raven + Crossroads as that fits the needs very well; and yeah it's fun riddling. Good stuff; cheers!

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4 hours ago, Snugz said:

The PCs were just at the Gates of Dusk as part of the Boat Planet quest, and did a lot with the Luathans, so I'd have to be creative to make it less of a repetition.

They could always meet Vadel there, who tempts them with other treasures, desires, or powers (all with bad side-effects, of course).

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A few small nitpicks. 

I am not sure Yelm's cloak, or the cloak of Dusk is linked to Arkat the Savior, as originally proposed, as it seems more of a rulership symbol, both by colouring and the association with Yelm. The seven aspects of Arkat in the Guide has the Savior with a small shield and a small bronze axe. Though if the idea is to focus more on Rulership (Great Arkat) that would probably suit Foyalfin's ambition. The Saviour is more concerned on discerning Truth from Lies, and I interpret that as fighting the plague monks and the Vampire kings.

I link Arkat's imagery in the first image more with Humakt than a demon, as Humakt's son, but that does not change anything. Check the image of Humakt in the RQG.

As Arkat has already too many weapons, I would consider a magic shield, a mirrored one that reflects the enemies' lies on themselves, and lets other see in its reflection what is and not what seems, so truth rune. Arkat used it in Seshnela and Tanisor, so I would consider it maybe was left behind when Gerlant cast him out, though as a Truth rune object I would have him keep it as a Humakti relic, so develop a quest in Ralios about finding a mirror. The beginning would be similar, but the main step would be fighting an invincible foe till you get the mirror that shows its weakness, hidden in crystalline water, or delivered by a friendly water spirit. The quest fits naturally with Lake Ralios, and you could even have a step of earning the friendhip of a water dragon...

 

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21 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

They could always meet Vadel there, who tempts them with other treasures, desires, or powers (all with bad side-effects, of course).

Yes I think that would be the final challenge at the Waertagi docks; IMG the Vadeli are the Big Bad, now with opposition to the Waertagi, so it fits well (and they're a good Gbaji buddy).

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19 minutes ago, JRE said:

I am not sure Yelm's cloak, or the cloak of Dusk is linked to Arkat the Savior

I like this idea too, and I think this discussion is leading me to work in a 2nd (later) heroquest; one Saviour-focused w/Foyalfine (and Shield would be good) and another Arkat Kingtroll-focused w/Kimiv of Naskorion, for whom the Cloak of Dusk seems a good fit.

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7 hours ago, JRE said:

I link Arkat's imagery in the first image more with Humakt than a demon

Depends what you mean by a demon, I guess. Doesn’t Death qualify? (ZeeZee is Death, too, and if you called him The Little Death, he’d chuckle and put off eating you till later.)

But this isn’t just any demon, this is Mara, right? Mara who may be Death, but is also “the personification of the forces antagonistic to enlightenment” and the “One Who Delights in Destruction”. Mara comes round to Buddhism in the end, of course.

Mara

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10 hours ago, JRE said:

I am not sure Yelm's cloak, or the cloak of Dusk is linked to Arkat the Savior, as originally proposed, as it seems more of a rulership symbol, both by colouring and the association with Yelm. The seven aspects of Arkat in the Guide has the Savior with a small shield and a small bronze axe. Though if the idea is to focus more on Rulership (Great Arkat) that would probably suit Foyalfin's ambition. The Saviour is more concerned on discerning Truth from Lies, and I interpret that as fighting the plague monks and the Vampire kings.

Definitely a rulership symbol, so if Savior is more the focus then aspects of the Truth will increasingly come into play as you note. But that's a different quest.

One of the interesting things with Arkat is that we know he repeated prior quests up to a certain point, and then branched off onto other paths. A quest to Yelm's Murder in one case to pursue the Cloak of Dusk (what's left of the Mantle of Sovereignty), instead might lead one to find and pursue the Vrimak Eagle in order to obtain the Eye of Truth. For that one, though, you have to go up through the Pole Star and undoubtedly prove your Purity to the inhabitants, avoid or confront Shargash (good chance there to get the Mace of Hatred), and then get entranced by the Celestial Choir.

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On 5/30/2023 at 10:44 PM, EricW said:

Gbaji was selfish, self indulgent, power hungry, putting his needs before others solely for his own aggrandisement.

 

Don't the Pelorians call Arkat Gbaji? And describe him in the terms you list?

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