M-Space VS The Big Golden Book

[Old Man Henerson]

Hi everyone!

I am planning on running a science fiction campaign soon and I was wondering whether or not it would be good to look into the M-Space books for more specific science fiction rules. I already have the Big Golden Book but I am not sure if it will be enough or if it is good enough to run a science fiction campaign as is. What are your thoughts?

[Atgxtg]

M-SPACE wouldn't be a bad idea. Originally it was written as a BRP supplement, but was altered due to Chaosium's licensing requirements at the time. So M_SPACE might be helpful for it spaceship rules -most of which are stand alone from the rest of the game mechanics. 

In fact, considering that BRP has gone OGL, it wouldn't be a bad idea to bring the original BRP SPACESHIPS out.

 

But I'd also say that if you don't need spaceships and an spaceship design system then you don't need M-SPACE.  In my opinion M-SPACE's biggest strength is that it covers spacecraft and spacecraft design when virtually no other BRP game does so. Th other setting stuff and tech can be replaced with other existing stuff depending on what sort of setting you are creating.

[Old Man Henerson]

6 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

M-SPACE wouldn't be a bad idea. Originally it was written as a BRP supplement, but was altered due to Chaosium's licensing requirements at the time. So M_SPACE might be helpful for it spaceship rules -most of which are stand alone from the rest of the game mechanics. 

In fact, considering that BRP has gone OGL, it wouldn't be a bad idea to bring the original BRP SPACESHIPS out.

Yeah, that might be cool, especially if I want to do any other science fiction campaigns some day.

Quote

But I'd also say that if you don't need spaceships and an spaceship design system then you don't need M-SPACE.  In my opinion M-SPACE's biggest strength is that it covers spacecraft and spacecraft design when virtually no other BRP game does so. Th other setting stuff and tech can be replaced with other existing stuff depending on what sort of setting you are creating.

I may or may not need spaceship designs so I am torn on getting that. The other aspect I was somewhat considering getting M-Space for was for the expanded list of psychic powers that it offers since the setting I am going for is more star wars like and the psychic powers in the BGB are rather lacking for what I am looking to do. Granted I could just tweak some supper powers and magic to make it fit better.

[Atgxtg]

5 hours ago, Old Man Henerson said:

Yeah, that might be cool, especially if I want to do any other science fiction campaigns some day.

At least if you want to have spacecraft in those campaigns and those campaigns are in BRP or a related system. The game does have stuff in it that would be useful to a GM running a Sci-Fi campaign, and Mythras is pretty compatible with BRP. Probably a third of the book will be redundant or unnecessary in BRP, but there are bits here and there that might prove useful. 

5 hours ago, Old Man Henerson said:

I may or may not need spaceship designs so I am torn on getting that. The other aspect I was somewhat considering getting M-Space for was for the expanded list of psychic powers that it offers since the setting I am going for is more star wars like and the psychic powers in the BGB are rather lacking for what I am looking to do.

Oh yeah, M-SPACE has Psionics. I forgot that. Actually if you are looking for Star Wars type powers it might be worth it. The powers listed are somewhat similar to the Jedi powers.  It is only 8 pages, but it does have a Star War's fell to it. In fact, I know that the creator had Star Wars in mind when he wrote M-SPACE.

5 hours ago, Old Man Henerson said:

 

Granted I could just tweak some supper powers and magic to make it fit better.

Or even adapt powers from a Star Wars RPG. The old West End Games Star Wars system originated out of the game system Chaosium created for West End's Ghostbuster's RPG. It kinda depends on just what you want and how much of a shortcut do you want (or need) to take. 

[Old Man Henerson]

13 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

At least if you want to have spacecraft in those campaigns and those campaigns are in BRP or a related system. The game does have stuff in it that would be useful to a GM running a Sci-Fi campaign, and Mythras is pretty compatible with BRP. Probably a third of the book will be redundant or unnecessary in BRP, but there are bits here and there that might prove useful. 

Oh yeah, M-SPACE has Psionics. I forgot that. Actually if you are looking for Star Wars type powers it might be worth it. The powers listed are somewhat similar to the Jedi powers.  It is only 8 pages, but it does have a Star War's fell to it. In fact, I know that the creator had Star Wars in mind when he wrote M-SPACE.

Or even adapt powers from a Star Wars RPG. The old West End Games Star Wars system originated out of the game system Chaosium created for West End's Ghostbuster's RPG. It kinda depends on just what you want and how much of a shortcut do you want (or need) to take. 

Yeah, I will probably look into this game then. If only a third would be redundant and it has plenty of psionic powers Thanks for the advice. Alternatively though, I did snag the free version of Stars Without Number and it seems to have some interesting ship design process, yet, as you said, It might just be better to look into something more BRP like.

[Atgxtg]

43 minutes ago, Old Man Henerson said:

Yeah, I will probably look into this game then. If only a third would be redundant

I'd say at least a third. I'm sort of walking a tighrope here, as while I have the book, know what is inside it, and what I'd find useful about it, I don't really know what would be useful to you.  So it's quite possible that something I like about it you wouldn't care about and vice versa. To me it's biggest plus is the spacecraft stuff because it is one of very few BRP related games that cover that. 

43 minutes ago, Old Man Henerson said:

and it has plenty of psionic powers

The psionics are covered in 8 pages, and are broken down into Se4nse, Mind and MAtter Categories. Each power has a short, decription, of a few sentences, The powers list breaks down as follows:

Sense

• Avoid Harm
• Intuition
• Mediation
• Battle Meditiation
• Pyschometry
• Detect
• Farsight

Mind

• Friendship
• Mental Defense
• Empathy
• Scream
• Read Mind
• Affect Mind
• Mask Mind
• Speed Mind
• Amnesia
• Control Mind
• Fear
• Telepathy

 

Matter

• Healing
• Find
• Move Object
• Illusion
• Push
• Leap
• Reflexes
• Stun
• Martial Flow
• Agility
• Haste
• Life Giver
•  

 

43 minutes ago, Old Man Henerson said:

Thanks for the advice.

Glad to help; hope that I did.

43 minutes ago, Old Man Henerson said:

Alternatively though, I did snag the free version of Stars Without Number and it seems to have some interesting ship design process, yet, as you said, It might just be better to look into something more BRP like.

Maybe. It depends on what you want to do, and what resources you already have available to you. As a plus the spacecraft rules for many RPGs sort of stands alone from the regular RPG rules for characters and could be ported over to BRP> I've got a lot of RPGs though so if I want to play mix 'n match I got a lot to work with. If I wanted to do Star Wars in BRP I'd probably just covert d6 Star Wars to BRP. 

 

But it really comes down to what you got to work with and what your preferences are. 

[Old Man Henerson]

On 6/5/2023 at 11:31 AM, Atgxtg said:

I'd say at least a third. I'm sort of walking a tighrope here, as while I have the book, know what is inside it, and what I'd find useful about it, I don't really know what would be useful to you.  So it's quite possible that something I like about it you wouldn't care about and vice versa. To me it's biggest plus is the spacecraft stuff because it is one of very few BRP related games that cover that. 

The psionics are covered in 8 pages, and are broken down into Se4nse, Mind and MAtter Categories. Each power has a short, decription, of a few sentences, The powers list breaks down as follows:

Sense

• Avoid Harm
• Intuition
• Mediation
• Battle Meditiation
• Pyschometry
• Detect
• Farsight

Mind

• Friendship
• Mental Defense
• Empathy
• Scream
• Read Mind
• Affect Mind
• Mask Mind
• Speed Mind
• Amnesia
• Control Mind
• Fear
• Telepathy

 

Matter

• Healing
• Find
• Move Object
• Illusion
• Push
• Leap
• Reflexes
• Stun
• Martial Flow
• Agility
• Haste
• Life Giver
•  

 

Glad to help; hope that I did.

Maybe. It depends on what you want to do, and what resources you already have available to you. As a plus the spacecraft rules for many RPGs sort of stands alone from the regular RPG rules for characters and could be ported over to BRP> I've got a lot of RPGs though so if I want to play mix 'n match I got a lot to work with. If I wanted to do Star Wars in BRP I'd probably just covert d6 Star Wars to BRP. 

 

But it really comes down to what you got to work with and what your preferences are. 

Thanks for the additional info on psionic powers, I will have to think hard, on weather to purchase the books or just roll with what I have got. The setting was mostly original, but I was attempting to add a Force like psychic system as well, and maybe have some cool space ships as well.

[clarence]

I would add a few more chapters as useful in M-SPACE.

Extended Conflicts allow you to run debates, fast talk, chases, research into alien tech and so on as a series of opposed rolls. Characteristics are used as Conflict Pools. 

Alien creation is less involved than for example GURPS, but more detailed than a bunch of rather abstract, random tables (like Classic Traveller). 

Vehicle design follows the same rules as starship design, but in a different scale. Works a bit like LEGO blocks, with modules combined into bespoke all-terrain vehicles, speeder bikes and so on. 

Organisations, big or small, in M-SPACE are called Circles. They have a few stats and “skills” to make them easier to use in play. 

If you need robots and cyborgs, the M-SPACE Companion covers them with enough detail to use for PCs. Like starships and vehicles, they are modular with a lot of flexibility. The Companion also has life path character creation as an add-on to regular PC creation. 

Beyond those tidbits, there’s not much to the book ; )

[Atgxtg]

3 hours ago, clarence said:

I would add a few more chapters as useful in M-SPACE.

Extended Conflicts allow you to run debates, fast talk, chases, research into alien tech and so on as a series of opposed rolls. Characteristics are used as Conflict Pools.

THat can be sort of debatable. While I know you are fond of conflict pools for  task resolution, I find them to be hit points reskinned.

3 hours ago, clarence said:

Alien creation is less involved than for example GURPS, but more detailed than a bunch of rather abstract, random tables (like Classic Traveller). 

True there. It's not hard to write up aliens in BRP to begin with, but the tables do help somewhat. TO me though, I have other resources available that can do a lot of the science stuff better. Nothing against M-SPACE but there are resources out there that delve more deeply into he science aspect of things that I would pull out instead. Kinda like if I were going to need a bunch of firearm stats for CoC, or some other BRP game I'd pull out the Investigator Weapons series of books. They cover firearms so well for BRP that they eclipse most other BRP firearm tables.  

3 hours ago, clarence said:

Vehicle design follows the same rules as starship design, but in a different scale. Works a bit like LEGO blocks, with modules combined into bespoke all-terrain vehicles, speeder bikes and so on. 

Yeah, I completely forgot about the vehicle rules. 

3 hours ago, clarence said:

Organisations, big or small, in M-SPACE are called Circles. They have a few stats and “skills” to make them easier to use in play. 

If you need robots and cyborgs, the M-SPACE Companion covers them with enough detail to use for PCs. Like starships and vehicles, they are modular with a lot of flexibility. The Companion also has life path character creation as an add-on to regular PC creation. 

 

3 hours ago, clarence said:

Beyond those tidbits, there’s not much to the book ; )

No, not much. :) Sorry I didn't do a better job on it's merits. 

 

 

Oh,  think I mentioned this before but since you are reading this thread...have you considered releasing your original BRP SPACESHIPS book now that the BRP licensing has changed to OGL?  You pretty much already wrote it, and judging from this thread alone I think it would sell. It wouldn't take too much work to adapt the Mythras stuff to BRP either.

 

BTW, BRP SIZ would be along the lines of: 

Tons	SIZ
1	42
2	50
4	58
8	66
16	74
32	82
64	90
128	98
256	106

 

Tons	SIZ
0.1	16
0.2	24
0.4	32
0.8	40
1.6	48
3.2	56
6.4	64
12.8	72
25.6	80

 

or SIZ= log(tons)/log(2)*8+42

 

 

 

[clarence]

Yes, it’s not a bad idea! I actually dug out one of the four existing print copies of BRP Space last week. As you say, most of the work has already been done. I will look into it a bit more before making a decision. 

Reskinned Hit Points or not, Extended Conflicts fundamentally changed the way I play RPGs. No more throwing in combat to increase tension. There are so many more creative options now. 

I agree about alien creation, but my goal was to make it good enough within a tight GM timeframe. There is a trade-off between accuracy and time spent preparing stuff, both for aliens and starships. Finding an approach that suits every GM is not realistic, but squeezing as much as possible from the GM’s precious time is important to me.   

[Atgxtg]

2 hours ago, clarence said:

Yes, it’s not a bad idea! I actually dug out one of the four existing print copies of BRP Space last week. As you say, most of the work has already been done. I will look into it a bit more before making a decision. 

I still got my BRP STARSHIP PDF . You already did most of the heavy lifting 7 years ago (Eeek!), and might as well benefit from that now that BRP is going OGL. 

All your M-SPACE supplements would be ready made material that could either be converted over to a BRP supplment or adapted with some sort of M-SPACE to BRP conversion sheet. The systems are very similar to begin with. 

2 hours ago, clarence said:

Reskinned Hit Points or not, Extended Conflicts fundamentally changed the way I play RPGs. No more throwing in combat to increase tension.

I'm glad it worked for you, but there really are other ways to do that, and I think some ways are better too. It's really a case of how to make the players care about the outcome of certain events, and that comes down to whatever the risks and rewards are. Combat come up a lot in RPGs because the risks and rewards are fairly obvious and the players are likely going to be vested in the survival of their characters, but anything can work if the GM can get the players invested.

For example, I once ran a game where there was going to be a big explosion in a couple of minutes, and everybody knew about it. The players were fighter pilots and had 10 rounds to get out of the blast area. Each round they got to make a piloting skill roll and needed something like 6 success levels to succeed. Things got very tense despite all the PCs have 80%+ piloting skills.

But everything from a chess match to tic-tac-toe can work as a dramatic scene if the GM can get the players invested into the events and the possible outcomes. It's not the game mechanics that matter,  so much as the player interest.

 

2 hours ago, clarence said:

There are so many more creative options now. 

Not really. There were more creative options before, now everything just boils down to hit points and damage, ala D&D. It's kinda like using D&D instead of BRP/Mthras. You lose all the options that come with parries, active defense, spells/psionics, and armor. By going with dice pools and points  for everything, everything is reduced to one type of contest with one method of resolution. 

 

Oh, as a side note, you might want to do up a game based entirely on the dice pool mechanic, and have everything work the same way. You could handle assaults, firefights, surgery, lock picking, diplomatic negotiations, races, computer hacking, engine repairs etc. will the same basic game mechanic and just swap out different abilities to the rolls and target values. 

 

2 hours ago, clarence said:

I agree about alien creation, but my goal was to make it good enough within a tight GM timeframe. There is a trade-off between accuracy and time spent preparing stuff, both for aliens and starships. Finding an approach that suits every GM is not realistic, but squeezing as much as possible from the GM’s precious time is important to me.   

That's kinda the thing with a generic sci fi book - if it goes deep into any one aspect of a setting it restricts GMs. As the settings become better defined they become less generic and less flexible. 

[Old Man Henerson]

4 hours ago, clarence said:

Yes, it’s not a bad idea! I actually dug out one of the four existing print copies of BRP Space last week. As you say, most of the work has already been done. I will look into it a bit more before making a decision.

I for one would be most interested if BRP Space came out.

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

I still got my BRP STARSHIP PDF . You already did most of the heavy lifting 7 years ago (Eeek!), and might as well benefit from that now that BRP is going OGL.

Is there by chance a PDF still in circulation on this site?

[Atgxtg]

3 hours ago, Old Man Henerson said:

I for one would be most interested if BRP Space came out.

Well that's one potential sale. If a few more people chime in maybe we can convince clarence to take your money! 🙌

3 hours ago, Old Man Henerson said:

Is there by chance a PDF still in circulation on this site?

No. What happened was that clarence originally was going to make a BRP supplement but changed to Mythras due to the licensing terms that Chasoium had at the time. I got a PDF of it because I had helped a little on the original rules with some number crunching for the spaceships. So there are only a few of us who have the BRP version.

But, now that BRP is OGL, it is much friendly for third party products, pretty much eliminating the reasons why the BRP version never came out, and why clarence switched over to Mythras. I think that as the conditions have changed, and as  BRP version already exists, it makes sense to release it, since it would mostly be profit now.

[clarence]

12 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Oh, as a side note, you might want to do up a game based entirely on the dice pool mechanic, and have everything work the same way. You could handle assaults, firefights, surgery, lock picking, diplomatic negotiations, races, computer hacking, engine repairs etc. will the same basic game mechanic and just swap out different abilities to the rolls and target values. 

I just did in December : ) Comae Engine is an ultra-lite version of Mythras, rebuilt on top of Extended Conflicts, in just 50 pages. It’s turned out to be the most popular book I’ve released so far.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/418884

In short, there are four characteristics - or Conflict Pools, really - and nine broad skills. Skills have a few //Focuses, mapping very closely to the Mythras skill list. Additionally, PCs have a few #Tags and Luck Points. All conflicts, including combat, are handled with Extended Conflicts. 

[Mugen]

20 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

THat can be sort of debatable. While I know you are fond of conflict pools for  task resolution, I find them to be hit points reskinned.

The way I see it conflict resolution as a whole sound like an expansion of RuneQuest Spirit Combat.

That was even more clear in HeroWars, where action points initial value was equal to the ability used.

[Ian Absentia]

15 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

For example, I once ran a game where there was going to be a big explosion in a couple of minutes, and everybody knew about it. The players were fighter pilots and had 10 rounds to get out of the blast area. Each round they got to make a piloting skill roll and needed something like 6 success levels to succeed.

So your explosion had 6 hit points.

!i!

[Atgxtg]

49 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

So your explosion had 6 hit points.

!i!

Any my PCs only had one. The menorable bit about the whole thing was that one PC, with something like an 85% piloting skill didn't make it.

[Atgxtg]

3 hours ago, clarence said:

I just did in December : ) Comae Engine is an ultra-lite version of Mythras, rebuilt on top of Extended Conflicts, in just 50 pages. It’s turned out to be the most popular book I’ve released so far.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/418884

In short, there are four characteristics - or Conflict Pools, really - and nine broad skills. Skills have a few //Focuses, mapping very closely to the Mythras skill list. Additionally, PCs have a few #Tags and Luck Points. All conflicts, including combat, are handled with Extended Conflicts. 

Oh, I'm familar with it, in fact I commented on how you could probably mix and match up contests by swapping out what values to use. But...you should come up with spaceship design rules that work the same way, and ways to bring in other stats into the fight, such as shields and ship maneuvering instead of just slugging it out with hull/ hit points. Something like someone being able to make a piloting roll to redirect damage from an attack to the ship's agility rating instead of hull. 

[Atgxtg]

2 hours ago, Mugen said:

The way I see it conflict resolution as a whole sound like an expansion of RuneQuest Spirit Combat.

Exactly. 

2 hours ago, Mugen said:

That was even more clear in HeroWars, where action points initial value was equal to the ability used.

Yup. The skill value used to attack with was the hit points used to soak the damage. But it also meant that all abilities were basically the same. Basket-weaving at 25 could beat Sword 17.

 

But it is a very abstract system that just boils everything down into a number crunch with little consideration for tactics or other abilities.  Good for a computer, but not so much fun for people. Although at least in HW/HQ you could get augments, switch out abilities and so forth, which brought some of other factors back in. But then in HW/HQ you mostly rolled to see what direction the story went as opposed to just being a win/lose thing. 

[Ian Absentia]

18 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Any my PCs only had one.

My point being that whether managed by attrition or accretion, or even the binary Yes/No of a success/failure roll, the abstraction of hit points that you seem to be arguing against is present in every game outside of a purely narrative system (and arguably present in even those).

19 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

...you should come up with spaceship design rules that work the same way, and ways to bring in other stats into the fight, such as shields and ship maneuvering instead of just slugging it out with hull/ hit points. Something like someone being able to make a piloting roll to redirect damage from an attack to the ship's agility rating instead of hull. 

These were always options that one could adopt or develop in M-Space, and that you may already see in the most recent release of The Comae Engine or soon in other releases in development.

Despite the sudden shift in Chaosium's intransigence, there are plenty of other reasons to not abandon a decade or more of innovation and revert to the almost half-century-old hodge-podge of BRP.

!i!

[Atgxtg]

2 hours ago, Ian Absentia said:

My point being that whether managed by attrition or accretion, or even the binary Yes/No of a success/failure roll, the abstraction of hit points that you seem to be arguing against is present in every game outside of a purely narrative system (and arguably present in even those).

Yes, but it isn't  always abracted to the same extent or the same way. RQ came about in part becuase it's authors thought that D&D was too abstract. D&D pretty much boiled combat down things down to attack, damage, AC, and hit points. RQ added in things like parries, fixed hit points, armor absorbing damage as opposed to redcuing the chances of "hitting" and so on.

So it comes down to how much abstraction. I think that using dice pools can lead to too much abstraction and turn everything into a simple number crunch.

2 hours ago, Ian Absentia said:

These were always options that one could adopt or develop in M-Space, and that you may already see in the most recent release of The Comae Engine or soon in other releases in development.

Yes, expeically as most M-SPACE GMs would be familar with other Mythras/BRP/Lendeng prodcuts and can port stuff over from other games that they like.

2 hours ago, Ian Absentia said:

Despite the sudden shift in Chaosium's intransigence, there are plenty of other reasons to not abandon a decade or more of innovation and revert to the almost half-century-old hodge-podge of BRP.

!i!

I didn't say he should abandon M-SPACE or the Myhras system, only that as he already wrote BRP STARSHIPS he might as well release it now that the terms are more agreeable. Either as a one off, as a series of adaptations of the M-SPACE line to BRP, or as a well to make products that work for both systems. But basically since BRP STARHIPS is already fait accompli there is no reason not to release it, and al least get a few buck from Old Man Henerson or whoever else wants to buy it.

[Ian Absentia]

44 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

So it comes down to how much abstraction. I think that using dice pools can lead to too much abstraction and turn everything into a simple number crunch.

Granted, and agreed.  Though, as you point out, the degree of abstraction is largely a matter of taste.  And, as I alluded, the most recent release of The Comae Engine features some innovations (i.e., Lenses, which affect Extended Conflicts at a level of narrative mechanics).  Other, perhaps more conventional adaptations may be in the wings.

51 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

I didn't say he should abandon M-SPACE or the Myhras system...

And I wasn't necessarily referring to the author.  Going back to the OP, I agree with the suggestion of digging deeper into manageable body of published work for M-Space for exactly what it brings to the table.  BRP has done nothing new in the 7 years since.

!i!

[Baron]

I like and play BRP, although I won't look at the new edition. I'm quite happy with what I have.

I participated in the discussions during M-Space's development. I don't play Mythras, it's not to my taste. So I was disappointed when it went in that direction.

If M-Space were to become available for BRP I'd be happy to give it a spin at my table.

But I really don't understand or appreciate comments like BRP has done nothing new in the 7 years since, or ...not abandon a decade or more of innovation and revert to the almost half-century-old hodge-podge of BRP.

A) Why denigrate something other people like? And

B) Why is there a problem with a game that's loved by many because it hasn't been changed? That's a major plus in my book. Change isn't always to everyone's taste, and certainly doesn't guarantee anything positive. It's simply a matter of taste.

I enjoy discussions that don't "cast shade" on things that people like.

[Atgxtg]

2 hours ago, Ian Absentia said:

Granted, and agreed.  Though, as you point out, the degree of abstraction is largely a matter of taste.  And, as I alluded, the most recent release of The Comae Engine features some innovations (i.e., Lenses, which affect Extended Conflicts at a level of narrative mechanics).  Other, perhaps more conventional adaptations may be in the wings.

Oh definately it is all very subjective. But that helps to explain why I didn't list it as one of the features of M-SPACE, to me it's not. Which is thing thing when explaining a game to someone else, you might not like or want the same things.

2 hours ago, Ian Absentia said:

And I wasn't necessarily referring to the author.  Going back to the OP, I agree with the suggestion of digging deeper into manageable body of published work for M-Space for exactly what it brings to the table.  BRP has done nothing new in the 7 years since.

!i!

History generally showed that specific settings sold better than a generic RPG, so Chaosium put BRP aside to focus on specific setting games. Then WotC started shooting D&D in the foot with a machinegun and every other RPG company took notice and putted out some OGL towels to soak up some market share.

 

But yeah, there is little generic SciFi stuff for BRP GMs so M-SPACE could fill that niche.

[g33k]

6 hours ago, Ian Absentia said:

...

Despite the sudden shift in Chaosium's intransigence, there are plenty of other reasons to not abandon a decade or more of innovation and revert to the almost half-century-old hodge-podge of BRP.

I liked Mythras.
It was a hard-no when I ran it for my group.

Plus, reasons.

So I too would (very much!) welcome more effort in the BRP direction.