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BRP Ancient Greece?


camazotz

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We think of those materials as soft and fragile ... and they are as T-shirt or bathrobe cloth. But the ancients laminated them together something in the way that old newsprint is glued to make paper mache. The result was hard and surprisingly tough. As long as you didn't get it wet, it was pretty effective.

"My dad went to Troy, and all I got was this lousy linothorax."

Some people are never satisfied, the name tag on the linothorax says Hector and you're still not happy :7

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Greek "Linothorax" might have been made of linen (all assumption, educated guess and theory), yet no evidence has been found. Citation required.

"Lino ..." means "made of linen", and I would be very surprised if the ancient

Greek authors would have fumbled their mother tongue rolls. ;)

"Mind like parachute, function only when open."

(Charlie Chan)

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"Lino ..." means "made of linen", and I would be very surprised if the ancient

Greek authors would have fumbled their mother tongue rolls. ;)

My understanding is that "linothorax" is a word of modern construction, but based on Greek root words. Hence my use of quotation marks when using the word.

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My understanding is that "linothorax" is a word of modern construction, but based on Greek root words. Hence my use of quotation marks when using the word.

Homer already used "Linothorax" (λινοθώρηξ), and so did others of

the ancient authors.

Edit.:

I looked it up in an online translation of the Iliad to see whether any other inter-

pretation would be possible, but the text is very clear:

Ajax, the fleet son of Oileus, commanded the Locrians. He was not

so great, nor nearly so great, as Ajax the son of Telamon. He was

a little man, and his breastplate was made of linen, but in use of

the spear he excelled all the Hellenes and the Achaeans.

http://classics.mit.edu/Homer/iliad.html

Other translations of the Iliad are identical, Homer definitely wrote about

a thorax / breastplate made of linen.

Edited by rust

"Mind like parachute, function only when open."

(Charlie Chan)

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It's odd but I was unaware that there was a controversy. When I saw linen armor in the Warlords supplement I was like "Finally!" I'd been house-ruling such things for years.

That Linothorax project at UW Green Bay makes me wish I had gone there instead of South Carolina for my Archaeology.

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That Linothorax project at UW Green Bay makes me wish I had gone there instead of South Carolina for my Archaeology.

Did the linen used in the Linothorax project match the same qualities (weave, binding, structure, etc...) of the linen that would have been used in ancient Greece? Did the project demonstrate that this had been considered for the tests and the conclusion?

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Did the linen used in the Linothorax project match the same qualities (weave, binding, structure, etc...) of the linen that would have been used in ancient Greece? Did the project demonstrate that this had been considered for the tests and the conclusion?

From the project's webpage:

Using the available literary and artistic sources, the group has reconstructed several linothoraxes using only the authentic fabrics and glues that would have been available in the ancient Mediterranean.

By the way, there was also a late distant relative of the linothorax, the

Gambeson, although in this case the layers of linen were quilted toge-

ther instead of glued together:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambeson

Edited by rust

"Mind like parachute, function only when open."

(Charlie Chan)

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Since it's going to be awhile before the official BRP Greek project, how about we talk about how to adapt existing BRP rules to a Greek setting? I'm interested in a Homeric Greece type setting, with gods included. So where do we start? Gods? Magic? How about both?

I've mostly played RQ3 over the years, so I'm more used to that, but I also have the big BRP rulebook, too.

Guy

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It seems seneschal never really got over it ... ;)

It was apparently two years ago. And I just heard about it today while pulling up random superhero stuff online.

Speaking of superheroes ... Homeric action heroes. They'd need the CON+SIZ calculation for Hit Points. They'd get occasional special equipment from assorted divine relatives. They'd be able to wade through mooks easily but engage in regular gritty combat against other heroes. They'd get occasional power boosts from a godly sponsor, enabling them to perform outrageous feats temporarily until it wore off.

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Speaking of superheroes ... Homeric action heroes. They'd need the CON+SIZ calculation for Hit Points. They'd get occasional special equipment from assorted divine relatives. They'd be able to wade through mooks easily but engage in regular gritty combat against other heroes. They'd get occasional power boosts from a godly sponsor, enabling them to perform outrageous feats temporarily until it wore off.

And they usually have at least one enemy among the deities who wants them

dead, uses his or her powers to make life miserable for them, and often also

succeeds in killing them. The more heroic the hero is, the higher is the probabi-

lity that one of the deities will begin to dislike what he does, and therefore be-

gin to plot his downfall. For example, Ajax - mentioned some posts earlier - an-

gered Athena, who had him shipwrecked, and when he survived this and boas-

ted that even she did not manage to kill him, Poseidon made him drown ...

"Mind like parachute, function only when open."

(Charlie Chan)

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Whilst slightly off topic the D20 supplements spawned some useful material. I bought all all of the following:

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=1668&it=1

mongoose ancients

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=1557&it=1

New argonauts ( free download...what have you got to lose ! )

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=536&products_id=19168&it=1&filters=0_0_0_0&manufacturers_id=536

Green Ronin Trojan war.

All had useful stuff in, and both the Mongoose and Ronin books had mechanics for divine patronage and disfavour. Worth a look if you can get them cheap, and like I said the argonauts book is a free download at the moment.

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I toyed with the idea of a Greek Campaign, pre-Trojan War, the characters would be of a generation before the Trojan War. Thus, they could do many of the quests (argonauts, etc), but would be retired before that war. Allegiance to one or more of the Gods would be critical and every 10 or so points would add 5 or more character points to strength, con, dex, pow, int whatever...(this was not fleshed out)...and at certain levels, say 25/50/75/etc, gain a feat a la Runequest that was applicable to that god/goddess Patron. Ways to gain more allegiance/patronage points would be to periodically hold huge sacrifices to their patrons, as mentioned in one of the early Different Worlds magazine ariticles on a Greek Campaign.

The (non-historical) protagonists, if needed, could be those darn-dirty Minoans who still worshipped a lingering Titan or two, who granted them the abilities to create beast-men thru foul, corrupt titan-ic magicks who served as the Minoans' strikeforces (Minotaurs, Centaurs) and mistakes (satyrs/fauns, whatever else tickles your fancy).

But I'd much rather see what the pros came up with.

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For inspiration, you might also browse through Mazes and Minotaurs, another free product.

http://storygame.free.fr/MAZES.htm

It's a D&D 1st edition near-clone designed for Harryhausen-style fantasy rather than for historical adventures, but it has eight 40-80 page supplements containing culturally accurate settings, critter write-ups, scenarios, deity descriptions, and campaign ideas.

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From my recent re-read of the Iliad and my immense enjoyment of the Age of Bronze comic book, I've noticed a dynamic. Much like in MRQ2: Vikings the people basically live in fear of the Gods.

- Religious practice seems to revolve around making sure the Gods are properly propitiated because if they aren't then we're cursed.

- Much is made of persons who might not actually be a priest but know the appropriate rites for a certain occasion.

- Certain persons are regarded as sacrosanct, harming them invokes a curse.

This system of belief as depicted in the literature doesn't really lend itself to the "Cult" system ala RQ in my opinion. But it does seem like it would work nicely in the Religion system used by Simon and Paolo in Merrie England and Stupor Mundi.

Namely:

Treat the Gods like Saints are treated in Merrie England and Stupor Mundi. In Age of Bronze, for instance, even though the Achaeans and Wilusans are obviously of different cultures and they call their gods by different names, they don't regard eachothers gods as different. In Troy Zeus is referred to as "the Storm God" (he probably would have been Teshub of the Hittites) but the chief Trojan divinities are the Sun God (Apollo) and "the Goddess" who is basically described as Athena. So my thinking is that everyone has a piety in "belief in the Gods" but prays at specially designated altars to patron divinities, investing some of their POW in the War God's altar for certain blessings and some of their POW in the God of Healing's altar for those obvious benefits. Naturally, certain shrines or temples are associated with certain patrons and you shop for the appropriate blessings in the appropriate places. This would make alot of sense in terms of game mechanics for characters to be religiously obligated to make a pilgrimage to a very specific shrine to make an appropriate offering to remove a curse or atone for a desecration (much like is done multiple times in the Trojan War epics).

thoughts?

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Sounds good to me.

Homeric Greece certainly needs some kind of magic from the gods. It's one of the settings where Ares grants some war magic, Apollo grants light and healing magic and so on.

However, Gloranthan-style magic doesn't fit the setting, as not everyone has magic.

So, gaining Blessings from the Gods makes sense.

One thing I would say is that you can gain Blessings from different gods, not just the one you are dedicated to. So, making an offering to Apollo might give you some magic even though you normally follow Ares. A man could even make an offering to Artemis even though men do not normally worship Artemis.

If you like a Clash of the Titans style game then the Gods and Goddesses could actively act to support or oppose characters. Whether you do this by magic or by some kind of Pact roll, I am not sure.

Also, the version of The Iliad that I read has the gods playing a physical role, with Ares, Athena and the rest getting stuck in to battles, actually killing people. This is something that never happens in Glorantha, say, and sometimes happens in a Norse setting (Odin the Wanderer, for example). The Gods are more personal and are, to a certain extent, touchier and more dangerous as a result.

Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

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The Gods are more personal and are, to a certain extent, touchier and more dangerous as a result.

It will depend on the style of the campaign, but if it is close to the "feeling" of

the Greek myths and heroic tales, this also influences the consequences of an

unwise use of a divine blessing - a character who uses it against the (not al-

ways obvious) interests of the deity who gave him the blessing has probably

earned himself a few centuries of cruel torture.

There would also be many other dangers, acts which are always punished by the

deities, like comparing someone with a deity, entering a deity's sacred place, kil-

ling one of a deity's sacred animals, and so on and on.

"Mind like parachute, function only when open."

(Charlie Chan)

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Maybe not centuries of cruel torture per se, but certainly a loss of POW, some other characteristic and perhaps social consequences until propitiatory rites are performed... across the sea... at the sacred grove of Herakles on Tenedos...and you have to sacrifice your friend who you've unwittingly brought along...

And, you only find out what you did wrong (and how to fix it) from an oracle who may have their own agenda....

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And, you only find out what you did wrong (and how to fix it) from an oracle who may have their own agenda....

... or who later, much too late, turns out to have been Nemesis in disguise ... >:>

"Mind like parachute, function only when open."

(Charlie Chan)

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Maybe not centuries of cruel torture per se, but certainly a loss of POW, some other characteristic and perhaps social consequences until propitiatory rites are performed... across the sea... at the sacred grove of Herakles on Tenedos...and you have to sacrifice your friend who you've unwittingly brought along...

Loss of POW is definitely a game mechnaic, but I'd go for characters being harassed and victimised by the deity concerned until he made amends. Greek mythology is full of such thngs. The Gods are portrayed as petty and vengeful, which is fine by me.

Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

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