BRP Planet of the Apes

[seneschal]

Didn't want to derail the "what we'd like to see" discussion. Here's what we've got so far:

From a game mechanics standpoint, a Planet of the Apes campaign wouldn't be hard to put together. We've already got the 19th Century firearms rules posted in the BRP Central downloads section, which is where the ape civilization is militarily, although they are more advanced medically. We already have professions templates for doctors, soldiers, and such, and psionics rules in the new BRP edition.

You'd have to figure out appropriate ape stats vs. conventional human stats. In the 1960s movie series, and in the the short-lived 1974 TV series, apes were slightly stronger and slightly dumber than 20th Century humans but not so much that they couldn't interact and compete on equal terms. They didn't exhibit the outrageous agility of the apes in the 2001 remake. You'd also want to figure out appropriate stats and "professions" for the primitive humans (they're physically normal but mentally and socially deficient) as well as for the mutants (wimpy in the physical department but have psionic powers).

The human astronauts from the 20th Century always lost their fancy gear when they crashed, so there isn't a lot of gee-whiz technological gimmickry to figure out. Even the bomb-worshipping mutants from Beneath the Planet of the Apes didn't have much in the way of sci fi hardware other than their "god." It's basically a Western in which the guys in the black hats also have fur, and parts of the Painted Desert are radioactive.

From a sourcebook standpoint, ape civilization is pretty centralized. You've got a single adobe city-state surrounded by farmland surrounded by desert. The apes don't explore much, both because they pretty much have everything they need locally and because of ancient prohibitions. So far as the movie series is concerned, there aren't a string of ape cities trading and competing with each other. The apes have a three-tiered society, with orangutans controlling the political and religious bureaucracy, gorillas comprising the the military caste, and chimpazees relegated to second-class citizen status (why this is so is never explained). Ape religion is based on the pronouncements of an ancient Lawgiver who enjoined them to reject human foibles and live in peace together. They believe in a Creator God, but the rest of their theology isn't spelled out. The mutants live beneath the ruins of one of several ancient human cities which are all some distance from the ape city. They keep strictly to themselves and attempt to scare off people who wander into their territory with mental illusions. The primitive humans live in the desert but sneak into ape farmland to raid crops. The whole setting is inland from what used to be the Eastern seaboard of the United States, but the sea level, climate and terrain have been altered drastically by a long-ago nuclear war. And that's about it.

You could expand on this tremendously, especially if you're in a "Gamma World" frame of mind. The ape city's zone of control is a tiny area of what used to be North America. You've not only got the rest of the continent (or what's left of it) but the rest of the whole planet to play with. Who knows what else is out there? Of course, if you get too wild and crazy, you no longer have a Planet of the Apes campaign.

[PK Games]

As we learned in later movies from the series, all dogs and cats die from some sort of plague in the future before the rise of Caesar and the apes. So you wont have any mutant dogs or cats running amok.

We know that there are horses that are not mutated and I think (but do not recall 100%) we see normal beasts of burden (oxen and what not) as well as a few birds that are not mutated.

Remember the Apes began to "mutate" into their forms during PotA while human civilization was still in charge, not out of radiation or other mutant effects. Something to do with them being raised in human households and probably genetically engineered to be more servile and humanlike by corporations or something. But the introduction of the Future Chimp (Caesar) into the world's history helped lead the revolution.

Then you have primitive de-evolved caveman like humans. They are tended to be rounded up by the apes for study, zoos and possibly slave labor. They are not anything special, but tend to have lower INT and POW scores Id say, but a few exceptional ones exist (ie Nora) who would be able to learn new skills and abilities.

This has me intrigued, Im now off to Amazon to buy the PotA movies. Thanks!

[PK Games]

The Hasslein Curve—A Timeline of the Planet of the Apes

[drohem]

Yeah, I'd say it's a reasonable inference that apes were genetically altered or manipulated by humans before the fall of civilization.

Also, I would also postulate that there might other human societies that are not as backwards as the humans near the ape's territory.

[tzunder]

Terra Primate from Eden is the best guide to the whole Ape genre. Frankly I'd run it as written but it is also a great guide to the genre and more.

[threedeesix]

Didn't want to derail the "what we'd like to see" discussion. Here's what we've got so far:

From a game mechanics standpoint, a Planet of the Apes campaign wouldn't be hard to put together. We've already got the 19th Century firearms rules posted in the BRP Central downloads section, which is where the ape civilization is militarily, although they are more advanced medically. We already have professions templates for doctors, soldiers, and such, and psionics rules in the new BRP edition.

Actually, I just watched the marathon on New Years Eve. In Beneath the Planet of the Apes, when the apes were preparing for the attack on the human mutants in the underground ruins, one of the apes (the general I think) had a submachine gun. When the first apes first attack. he comes in spraying bullets.

While the other apes use bolt-action rifles, submachine guns do exist but are rare.

Rod

[Atgxtg]

Actually, I just watched the marathon on New Years Eve. In Beneath the Planet of the Apes, when the apes were preparing for the attack on the human mutants in the underground ruins, one of the apes (the general I think) had a submachine gun. When the first apes first attack. he comes in spraying bullets.

While the other apes use bolt-action rifles, submachine guns do exist but are rare.

Rod

Technically speaking if you run an ape culture at the level of the film series, you are roughly close to late 19th-early 20th century. Historically, that was the high point of the bolt action rifle. It is just the best design for what it was intended to so. Machineguns, and even submachineguns (machine pistols) did exist back then.

Since the films has a strong moral code of "Ape shall not kill ape" that the apes do seem to live up to, the the absence of autofire weapons is probably more a matter of choice. If there isn't another culture to wage war against, there is really no need for machineguns.

Rifles are probably used more for defense or hunting, and so a bolt action rifle is a good choice. Hunting with a submachinegun is impractical and so such weapons would be rare. Probably a hold over weapon is case there is some unknown danger.

[threedeesix]

Technically speaking if you run an ape culture at the level of the film series, you are roughly close to late 19th-early 20th century. Historically, that was the high point of the bolt action rifle. It is just the best design for what it was intended to so. Machineguns, and even submachineguns (machine pistols) did exist back then.

Since the films has a strong moral code of "Ape shall not kill ape" that the apes do seem to live up to, the the absence of autofire weapons is probably more a matter of choice. If there isn't another culture to wage war against, there is really no need for machineguns.

Rifles are probably used more for defense or hunting, and so a bolt action rifle is a good choice. Hunting with a submachinegun is impractical and so such weapons would be rare. Probably a hold over weapon is case there is some unknown danger.

Admittedly, I'm not all that up to date on when automatic weapons came into use.

I have to admit that as I watched the movies again I was thinking of doing an adaption myself.

I cared very little for the remake.

Rod

[Atgxtg]

Admittedly, I'm not all that up to date on when automatic weapons came into use.

I have to admit that as I watched the movies again I was thinking of doing an adaption myself.

I cared very little for the remake.

Rod

Well, depending on if the Gatling count counts or not, automatic weapons came into use either in 1861 or 1884 when Hiram Maxim invested the first Machinegun.

Writing up Ape weapons would be easy. I know the Hero props for the filsm were based on a real rifle (so they could fire blanks). I'm not sure of the actual caliber, but suspect some variant of .30 caliber. PArty becuase in the real world at around the turn of the 20th century, everybody was using what was essentially the same rifle. The 1903 Springfield, British SMLE, and Gewr 98 are all basically the same design.

I'll do up rifle and pistol stats if people want them.

Maybe I can did up my copy of Aftermath and see if it helps with Ape stats for BRP?

[Kloster]

Admittedly, I'm not all that up to date on when automatic weapons came into use.

I have to admit that as I watched the movies again I was thinking of doing an adaption myself.

I cared very little for the remake.

Rod

IIRC, the 1st submachinegun was the italian Villar-Perosa, during WWI.

The 1st machinegun was the Maxim, and machineguns were present in all modern armies at the turn of the 20th century.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Atgxtg]

IIRC, the 1st submachinegun was the italian Villar-Perosa, during WWI.

I'd consider the Mauser C96 to be the first submachinegun. The difference between machine pistol and SMG are rather vague.

There were also a few other designs like the MP18 that could make claims to the VIlliar Persoa's title.

The technology was really available since at least the mid 19th century if not earlier. It just took so logng for people to consider the idea as worthwhile.

[Kloster]

I'd consider the Mauser C96 to be the first submachinegun. The difference between machine pistol and SMG are rather vague.

There were also a few other designs like the MP18 that could make claims to the VIlliar Persoa's title.

The technology was really available since at least the mid 19th century if not earlier. It just took so logng for people to consider the idea as worthwhile.

The Mauser C96 is not full auto. Each pull on the trigger will fire only 1 shot.

Submachinegun are able of full auto. The full auto model of the C96 is the C32 (of 1932).

The Villar Perosa is dated 1914 and has been introduced to service in 1915. There were new models in 1915, 1916 and 1917. The MP18 is dated, guess what, 1918.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Atgxtg]

The Mauser C96 is not full auto. Each pull on the trigger will fire only 1 shot.

Submachinegun are able of full auto. The full auto model of the C96 is the C32 (of 1932).

Ah. Okay.

The Villar Perosa is dated 1914 and has been introduced to service in 1915. There were new models in 1915, 1916 and 1917. The MP18 is dated, guess what, 1918.

[soltakss]

The Apes seem to have guns that they've made themselves or guns that they had salvaged many years ago. So, they would be pistols and rifles of some sort.

The mutant humans had guns that they had kept from when they were a military organisation, so they had access to some automatic weapons. They'd be difficult to maintain, though, and would eventually break down, so there wouldn't be that many of them left. After all, they had a working H Bomb and ICBM which they didn't make themselves!

The big difference between the films and the TV series is the level of development of the humans. In the films they were almost the equivalent of herd men in Glorantha, semi-intelligent with no language skills, almost ape-like in nature. In the TV series, the humans were much closer to us, with language and civilisation, acting as slaves rather than animals.

I prefer the approach of the films, but I see that the TV series allows the astronauts to blend in easier.

Hawkmoon has Technological Enclaves where some technological skills have not been lost. This is the equivalent to the mutant humans in Planet of the Apes. I can see that happening more than just in the one place. As in any post-holocaust setting, you'd have dead cities, mutants, wormwoods and new civilisations.

[threedeesix]

The big difference between the films and the TV series is the level of development of the humans. In the films they were almost the equivalent of herd men in Glorantha, semi-intelligent with no language skills, almost ape-like in nature. In the TV series, the humans were much closer to us, with language and civilisation, acting as slaves rather than animals.

If I recall correctly, the TV series was set not as far in the future, when the apes and humans were closer culturally, before the total collapse of human civilization.

Rod

[drohem]

Yeah, I'm not that pleased with the humans of the movies. Nova eventually learned to speak, which means that humans had the capacity for speech. If they were slaves for speaking apes, then wouldn't it follow that they would eventually learn to speak?

I think I would blend the TV series concepts with the movies. I would make the humans of the movies an isolated group of humans that had serverely de-evolved. They would be regional. So that when players start exploring the regions farther away from the ape city of the movies, then they will more than likely encounter human societies of varying degrees of culture and civilization.

There isn't really much that I would take from the newest Marky Mark version of the franchise. I would take the visuals and organization of the ape military only, I think.

[Atgxtg]

The Apes seem to have guns that they've made themselves or guns that they had salvaged many years ago. So, they would be pistols and rifles of some sort.

The mutant humans had guns that they had kept from when they were a military organisation, so they had access to some automatic weapons. They'd be difficult to maintain, though, and would eventually break down, so there wouldn't be that many of them left.

Not necessarily. If the apes can manufacture clip fed rifles, firing metallic cartridges then they have the capability to produce automatic weapons. They may or may not have the knowledge or inclination to do so. If man is only a animal, and apes don't fight wars with other apes, then there is no reason to invent a machinegun.

Or, since what we know is mostly what we see through Talyor's eyes, apes could have machineguns, but we just didn't see them.

The big difference between the films and the TV series is the level of development of the humans. In the films they were almost the equivalent of herd men in Glorantha, semi-intelligent with no language skills, almost ape-like in nature. In the TV series, the humans were much closer to us, with language and civilisation, acting as slaves rather than animals.

I prefer the approach of the films, but I see that the TV series allows the astronauts to blend in easier.

Hawkmoon has Technological Enclaves where some technological skills have not been lost. This is the equivalent to the mutant humans in Planet of the Apes. I can see that happening more than just in the one place. As in any post-holocaust setting, you'd have dead cities, mutants, wormwoods and new civilisations.

Auctually both approaches could be used in a single campaign. In the film Dr. Zaius was concered about the possible existence of advanced humans. Since we see the human mutants in the series, and Nova develops the ability to speak, it is possible that there could be humans of various mental abilites in groups throughout the planet. The ape society of the films and TV series do not span the globe.

A GM could have a dozen ape communities or more with just as many groups of humans. Considering just how little is given about Amerihk in the Hawkmoon books, a GM could probably run an ape campaign on Tragic Millineium Earth.

[Hedgehobbit]

I wouldn't give the humans from the movies a penalty to INT, they just lacked any education whatsoever since Dr. Zaius was pretty serious about keeping them in their place.

The humans from the TV show were on the west coast of the US where the apes must have been a bit less strict about following Ape Law and, thus, human retained some basic level of civilization such as speaking.

Either that or the forbidden zone completely isolated the east coast apes and they had a different set of laws and codes to follow.

[Atgxtg]

I wouldn't give the humans from the movies a penalty to INT, they just lacked any education whatsoever since Dr. Zaius was pretty serious about keeping them in their place.

The humans from the TV show were on the west coast of the US where the apes must have been a bit less strict about following Ape Law and, thus, human retained some basic level of civilization such as speaking.

Either that or the forbidden zone completely isolated the east coast apes and they had a different set of laws and codes to follow.

Or....

we could assume that the time travel trip in movie #3 altered the course of the timeline and lead to a different future. That was somewhat hinted at through the course of the films. THere are a lot of ways to put it together.

The big difference between the films and TV series is that the humans in the films weren't used as slaves, but viewed as pests. They also did seem to be lacking in Intelligence, being about as clever as most primates (role reversal).

Even Nova's intellecgence and ability to eventually speak puts her at about "Cave Man" level. Certainly a few INT points below a ape or home sapien. That is one reason why the apes were able to trap them so easily.

[TRose]

I would give the gorillas an int of about 2d6+2 as they are not shown to be very bright and to offset their strength.

And I would use herdmen for the humans in the movies and perhaps normal men for the series. I know the girl learn some words ,but then they have also taught apes sign language and would allow movie type humans to learn only a few simple words.

[Atgxtg]

I would give the gorillas an int of about 2d6+2 as they are not shown to be very bright and to offset their strength.

And I would use herdmen for the humans in the movies and perhaps normal men for the series. I know the girl learn some words ,but then they have also taught apes sign language and would allow movie type humans to learn only a few simple words.

I agree. I'm thinking something along the lines of trading off INT for STR. So:

Chimpanzees INT 2D6+5, STR 3D6+1

Orangutans INT 2D+4, STR 3D6+2

Gorrilas INT 2D6+3, STR 3D6+3

[Aramone]

I pictured the Gorrilas Str 3d6+5 and Int 2d6+3. The Orangutans Str 3d6+3 and Int 3d6. The chimpanze Str 3d6+2 and Int of 3d6.

[Atgxtg]

I pictured the Gorrilas Str 3d6+5 and Int 2d6+3. The Orangutans Str 3d6+3 and Int 3d6. The chimpanze Str 3d6+2 and Int of 3d6.

They don't seem to be able to manhandle the humans though.

BTW, Are you thinking 3D6 with humans as 3D6 or 3D6 with humans 2D6+6?

[Aramone]

I was thinking the humans 3d6 for all stats like normal.

except for the humans that lived real close to ape city Im not that familar with the stats of the humans herdsmen from glorantha. Can someone enlighten me on their stats.

[Atgxtg]

I was thinking the humans 3d6 for all stats like normal.

except for the humans that lived real close to ape city Im not that familar with the stats of the humans herdsmen from glorantha. Can someone enlighten me on their stats.

Well first off, most current version of BRP give Humans a 2D6+6 roll for INT and SIZ. So the 3D6 for all stats hasn't been normal since 1982 or so.

To understand human Herdmen, they have the same stats as humans but are reduced to animal intelleigence. IN RQ2 INT wasn't tracked for animals. In RQ3, Huuman INT was a 2D6+6 range. Any intelligent creatures got a rolled INT score while those animal intellegence had a "Fixed" INT score. For instance a dog would have a fixed INT of 5, while a Hawk could have a fixed INT of 3. So while one dog might be smarter than another, any dog was considered smarter than any hawk.Herdmen would have fixed INT rather than rolled. And if a normal man got turned into a herdman, his INT would become fixed.