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The Design Mechanism and the Future of RuneQuest


lawrence.whitaker

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Combat actions. What actually bothers me is not the concept (it actually makes for very cool fights when heroes fight lowly peasants with less CA's, or terrifying monsters with many CA), but that it's purely stat-based, so if i have high INT and DEX, i get 3 combat actions even if its the first time in my life i pick up a weapon, and the grizzled veteran fighter has 2CA's because he has low stats.

It IS a rant an quite a minor issue, since im sure pretty much any grizzled veteran can easily manage an INT/DEX average of 13, but still...

I am experiminting with:

Combat Actions: The base number of actions that a character can act in a round is determined by the Intelligence and Dexterity characteristics, as shown in the table below:

Average of Dexterity plus Intelligence Combat Actions

1-6............................................................... 1

7-12...............................................................2

13-18..............................................................3

19-25...............................................................4

26-31...............................................................5

Additional Combat Actions:

Weapon Mastery

Characters receive an additional Combat Action (CA) if they have one or more melee, missile or unarmed combat skills (not artillery) above 90.

Dual Wielding: A player may claim an additional CA for a second weapon, shield or “useful” item in his or her off hand, but the extra CA must involve that weapon, shield or item. A character picking up a second item immediately gains the additional CA, but must, as normal use it with the item they have just began to wield. If a Character loses the item during the round, they loose the bonus CA unless they have already used the weapon or item that granted it.

:)

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With the proposed release of a new version of RQII many people consider that there are some issues with the original system and if these will be sprted out (or not) in the revised version.

The primary ones that I have seen an aweful lot of debate about are:

Combat Styles

Combat Actions (especially duel wielding with things like penknives or a sharp pen)

Movement

It might be that RQ 6 does change these or it may not .............

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With the proposed release of a new version of RQII many people consider that there are some issues with the original system and if these will be sprted out (or not) in the revised version.

The primary ones that I have seen an aweful lot of debate about are:

Combat Styles

Combat Actions (especially duel wielding with things like penknives or a sharp pen)

Movement

It might be that RQ 6 does change these or it may not .............

Everything is being reviewed for RQ6 - Styles, Actions, Movement and more.

There will most certainly be changes. What they are or will, I can't say yet. But changes, certainly.

The Design Mechanism: Publishers of Mythras

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Errr, what Darran suggested is that there are specific forums on the Design Mechanism home page that are devoted to this kind of suggestion.

Since I won't be looking at the Design Mechanism forum pages, I look forward to seeing whatever discussion that motivated folks post here.

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Ditto. In a new thread though, perhaps...

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Guest Vile Traveller

No need to proliferate threads, is there? I think speculation over rules changes is well within the topic of The Design Mechanism and the Future of RuneQuest.

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I am experiminting with:

Combat Actions: The base number of actions that a character can act in a round is determined by the Intelligence and Dexterity characteristics, as shown in the table below:

Average of Dexterity plus Intelligence Combat Actions

1-6............................................................... 1

7-12...............................................................2

13-18..............................................................3

19-25...............................................................4

26-31...............................................................5

Note that using the sum of DEX and INT, and not their average, is quicker :)

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I'm fiddling with a sum of DEX and INT, with additional CAs for weapon mastery (90+ plus if skills stay below 100, otherwise 100+ as skills go over 100). I am also toying with the idea that one must "learn" some of the CMs - seeking out a weapon master and training. So, some CMs are weapon specific, and some will have prerequisites such as specific weapon use and other CMs.

Ian

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Given that everyone and his alynx has posted here, I will add my opinion:

3 CM for everybody; modifiers for major combat advantages only (2-weapons, martial arts, extra limbs etc.); weapon mastery is already a huge advantage in itself (it makes your opponent miss his roll): I do not see why it should grant an EXTRA advantage.

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Given that everyone and his alynx has posted here, I will add my opinion:

3 CM for everybody; modifiers for major combat advantages only (2-weapons, martial arts, extra limbs etc.); weapon mastery is already a huge advantage in itself (it makes your opponent miss his roll): I do not see why it should grant an EXTRA advantage.

I am talking Weapon Mastery in the BRP sense - hitting 90% Attack/Parry in Stormbringer I - IV, hitting 90% in RuneQuest, etc. Not the Weapon Mastery Heroic Ability. Basically, once you reach a "Master" level of expertise, you gain another CA (perhaps only with that weapon, but that would be extra bookkeeping - probably better to say when your first weapon skill achieves "Master" level, or even for every 5 weapons at "Master" level, a new CA is earned).

Ian

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Surely you'd only get the extra CA when actually fighting with the mastered weapon?

(Hmm, maybe that could be a benefit for two-weapon fighting... ;))

Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi.

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Surely you'd only get the extra CA when actually fighting with the mastered weapon?

(Hmm, maybe that could be a benefit for two-weapon fighting... ;))

Or, perhaps more appropriately, with that Class of weapon: 1h Swords, 2h Swords, 1h Hafted Weapons, 1h Spears, etc.

And, even with this I would impose a penalty for off hand use.

SDLeary

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Or, perhaps more appropriately, with that Class of weapon: 1h Swords, 2h Swords, 1h Hafted Weapons, 1h Spears, etc.

And, even with this I would impose a penalty for off hand use.

SDLeary

I'd probably go with this.

I think associating the extra CA on a weapon by weapon basis makes for too much bookkeeping.

Ian

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I am talking Weapon Mastery in the BRP sense - hitting 90% Attack/Parry in Stormbringer I - IV, hitting 90% in RuneQuest, etc. Not the Weapon Mastery Heroic Ability.

I understood this perfectly. And I still think IT WOULD BREAK THE RULES. In the current version of the RQ rules, having a very high skill (90% is NOT a very high skill) already gives you extra CAs: since your opponent will easily fail his roll, chances are you do not need to spend your CA and can save it for later use. OR you can roll your parry and then gain a manoeuver. Is there any need to add extra advantage to this huge advantage?

The RAW work perfectly. Adding CAs once you read a breakpoint would just add a level-esque complication that has nothing to do with the simplicity of the RuneQuest rules.

Or, perhaps more appropriately, with that Class of weapon: 1h Swords, 2h Swords, 1h Hafted Weapons, 1h Spears, etc.

Classes of weapons no longer exist in RuneQuest. There are fighting styles instead.

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IMO the RAW have a fair few problems - especially in relation to duel wielding (oh look I have a tooth pick in my off hand - thanks for the extra Combat Action) - hence the various work arounds that people have been suggested to make this more palatable. In a similar manner Combat Styles caused alot of quesitons and confusion - perhaps this is why they are looking at these issues for the new iteration?

At present CA are only related to raw physcial attributes and have nothing to do with skill or experience - I am not sure how adding one CA for high skill breaks the game when it already has the issue raised above which requires no effort or skill to achive - just a spare hand and any item? IMO this is far more game breaking.

I would consider 90%+ a high skill - no one has got there yet in our Clockwork and Chivalry campaign - Perhaps it is different in more magic fueled RQ campaigns?

Also IMO RQ handles unarmed combat very badly with little to no options or rewards for doing so.

Combat Styles are presently super vague and I think Weapon Groups are much more sleek way of handling compentacy. There is also no way of creating a character who is skilled with some weapons within a style more than others - so a Samurai is equally skilled with Sword, Bow, polearm and Musket under the suggested styles. whilst many fictions which people try to emulate would have had the Swordsman, the Bowman and Naginata wiedler - each with thier own niche. I don't think there is anything wrong with using COmbat Styles but it needed/s an comprehenisive discussion of how best to use and adapt for a particualr campaign - especially for those less experienced.

It will be interesting to see what shifts and chnages for RQ6 especially if its not centered around the needs of Glorintha rather than a more generic world?

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Classes of weapons no longer exist in RuneQuest.

RuneQuest no longer exists in [Mongoose] RuneQuest. ;)

The concept of weapon classes hasn't vanished just because some publisher doesn't include them in their latest edition. So if someone finds 'em useful...

Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi.

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Mongoose RuneQuest no longer exists, it will vanish at the start of October. RuneQuest (the real thing) is now fully in the hands of people who are committed to making it good, not just of "some publisher". Weapon classes exist in out-of-print editions, or in BRP. RuneQuest (the real thing) does not include any weapon class concept any longer.

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Reading through the other forums posts and Petes post here - it looks like alot of things are being reconsidered - so there is a possibility that they might (if it works better) use Weapon Classes whilst they are hopefully addressing the other issues I mention above. Then again they might not but its probably too early to be certain?

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I am 100% sure they will not move away from Combat Styles. How CAs are calculated might undergo some review (Loz said this), but I have discussed Combat Styles in depth with Pete 2 years ago, and the whole concept suits "Real Combat" more than the other models. You do not learn "How to swing a sword", you learn a corpus of techniques that may or may not include some moves.

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I kinda go along with that after speaking to friends who practice martial arts etc - one just came bakc from 3 months studying in China :)

As I mentioned its just seems odd that the Combat Style can be so hugely inclusive (for example the Samurai example above and Pan Tangian gladiators) and with such a diverse variety of weapons whilst also not having the potential for a practioner to be better at one from within the discpline that another.

I'd really like their to be some way of incorporating this :)

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Classes of weapons no longer exist in RuneQuest. There are fighting styles instead.

Simple enough to add back in. In any event, even with styles, your using a class of weapon. You can't really use a Zweihander effectively with a shield other than perhaps a buckler strapped to your wrist. And, honestly, they would be easy to integrate back in without effecting the fighting styles much if at all.

SDLeary

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I will be buying a copy!

Its with great pleasure and excitement that I'm able to announce that The Design Mechanism, the new company formed by myself and Pete Nash, has successfully reached an agreement with Issaries Inc to become the new licensee for RuneQuest. The full Press Release can be found on the RuneQuest page at www.thedesignmechanism.com along with a detailed Q&A sheet for those who want to know more about what we have in store for RQ.

Greg Stafford, Issaries President, had this to say on the agreement: "RuneQuest is an old, highly respected brand that requires creativity, dedication and knowledge of the product. I know that Loz and Pete have that, plus enthusiasm and professionalism that will keep up the reputation and good name. I am pleased."

Clearly its early days for both Design Mechanism and RuneQuest's 6th edition but we have exciting plans for the game building on the work Pete and I have already done with Mongoose's RuneQuest II and we look forward to sharing them with the roleplaying community as we develop the new rules.

Lawrence

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