Does Glorantha have horse collars?

[Yazurkial]

My title was a little misleading. When I was in undergrad (early 90's), we learned that the horse collar was a significant invention that allowed the use of horses for plowing. Horses are like 4 times better than oxen for plowing. So, where typical heavy plow (blade + plowshare) would require an 8-ox team, a 2-horse team would suffice ... and still be faster.

But that was somewhat debunked since then. It isn't the horse collar itself that was the problem. Romans had horse collars, and used them for wagons and carts. The problem was that the attachment to the plow was much lower than the attachment to a wheeled cart. That was the little bit that needed to be invented.

So that raises the general question: Are there horses pulling wagons in Glorantha? If so, where? Are there horses pulling plows in Glorantha? If so, where?

Edited December 11, 2023 by Yazurkial

[Joerg]

To my knowledge, nothing heavier than a chariot is pulled by horses in Glorantha. The heavy work for wagons or plows is left to oxen or water buffalo while lighter work is given to donkies or mules.
I remember seeing an interesting plow team (I think from Egypt) consisting of one donkey (working on the unplowed side of the furrow) and one camel (on the plowed side of the furrow), the donkey for maximum grip and the camel for minimum soil condensation, but I have no idea whether anything similar has ever been considered in Glorantha.

[mfbrandi]

12 hours ago, Yazurkial said:

Horses are like 4 times better than oxen for plowing.

16 minutes ago, Joerg said:

To my knowledge, nothing heavier than a chariot is pulled by horses in Glorantha.

Quote

Shortly after the Dawn …  the chariot slowly gave way to the mounted horse. — Guide to Glorantha: Pent, p.364

We know that Solar nomads favour the horse and despise agriculture, so perhaps — and only perhaps (discard any/all to taste):

• those who “favour” the horse consider it beneath the horse’s dignity to work the fields: man > horse > (mother) earth — where the horse plough is seen as subjecting the horse to the earth mother (identified with growing food in vegetable form), an impious reversal of the patriarchal order;
   
• the horse nomads actively work against allowing the use of horses in agriculture, as that might tip the balance of power in favour of the despised sedentaries by making them more efficient at producing food;
   
• contra-canon: if potatoes need deep furrows (lest the light of father sun make them toxic) and the Lunars at least start as resistance to patriarchal Yelm, this further motivates the struggle between the people of the Goddess and Sheng Seleris — it is inter alia a struggle over agricultural technology (means of production); the Pentland Javelin is considered not just a threat but an insult.

[Joerg]

18 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

• contra-canon: if potatoes need deep furrows (lest the light of father sun make them toxic) and the Lunars at least start as resistance to patriarchal Yelm, this further motivates the struggle between the people of the Goddess and Sheng Seleris — it is inter alia a struggle over agricultural technology (means of production); the Pentland Javelin is considered not just a threat but an insult.

Cold-resistant tubers sound like something of great nutritional interest to the Gopher people of northern Pent.

[Agentorange]

3 hours ago, Joerg said:

Cold-resistant tubers sound like something of great nutritional interest to the Gopher people of northern Pent.

[svensson]

To the OP:

It does if the referee says it does. And that goes for anything else that comes to mind. Your Glorantha is gonna be different than mine, Greg's or anybody else's, and that's just fine.

[Darius West]

Ahh Horse Collars, another fine God Learner technological development, like the stirrup. 😎

[Yazurkial]

Perhaps this is linked to another question: Does anyone in Glorantha use a heavy plow, wheels out front, coulter to cut the ground, plowshare, and mouldboard?

If not, then the little bit I was talking about would never be needed. The ard plow (aka the scratch plow) can be handled by a couple oxen, rather than an 8-ox team.

[Ian_W]

1 hour ago, Yazurkial said:

Perhaps this is linked to another question: Does anyone in Glorantha use a heavy plow, wheels out front, coulter to cut the ground, plowshare, and mouldboard?

If not, then the little bit I was talking about would never be needed. The ard plow (aka the scratch plow) can be handled by a couple oxen, rather than an 8-ox team.

I don't know of any culture who does that.

For MGF purposes, such a weird set of technologies, completely ignoring How Things Are Done, and binding the Sky Horse to Earth like it's a bullock ... I'd pick Sir Ethilrist at Muse Roost.

[Sir_Godspeed]

2 hours ago, Yazurkial said:

The ard plow (aka the scratch plow) can be handled by a couple oxen, rather than an 8-ox team.

That's the Barntar Plow, right? I believe that plow is contrasted to a "heavier" Pelorian plow, which might be closer to what you're looking for. 

I also recall something about a carl/freeman in Sartar/Heortland being more or less defined by owning a set of oxen who can plow a full field's worth. Not sure if that's two or four or what.

[Joerg]

The ancient Dara Happans used a different Sky creature than horses to do their heavy pulling: Gazzam, aka Earth Shakers, IMG the fluffy downy kind. As far as I can recall we never discussed either harnesses or heavy gear operated with the help of those, although the Mostali turning the Capstone on Jrustela seem to have workable dinosaur harnesses.

[Perdido Sangrenegra]

There are ducks of a different feather in Glorantha. That there are also enclaves of horaces who would monitor these matters seems likely.