Changes in good old roleplaying?

[Kyle Aaron]

For someone to say that I "lack breath of experience" with RPGs is incorrect. For anyone to do so, they should at least have enough experience with the games mentioned to back it up.

If you had breadth of experience with rpgs, you wouldn't make incorrect generalisations like, "they were mostly copies of D&D" or "they were mostly hack and slash."

Your generalisation does not match the actual games. The assertion, "if it's linear it's not an rpg" excludes rather a lot of games as actually played. Dragonlance, for example, was extremely linear. So when we played through all those modules, we weren't really roleplaying?

Bollocks.

I have some breadth of experience, but even if I didn't - well, I'm not the one making insulting generalisations about rpgs. You are.

The common element to all your bad roleplaying game experiences is you. If almost every game you played was hack and slash with no roleplaying, was it the game, or was it you? Or your GM at the time, perhaps?

[Atgxtg]

If you had breadth of experience with rpgs, you wouldn't make incorrect generalisations like, "they were mostly copies of D&D" or "they were mostly hack and slash."

I' the one who played those games. Did you? Metamopeshis Aplha and Gamma World were D&D on a spaceship.

I was there. Where were you. As for being insulting you "bollocks" statement takes the cake.

You a newbie with no idea what you are talking about.

Your generalisation does not match the actual games. The assertion, "if it's linear it's not an rpg" excludes rather a lot of games as actually played. Dragonlance, for example, was extremely linear. So when we played through all those modules, we weren't really roleplaying?

Your statements show no knoweldge of the actual games. Nor any understanding of this thread. The debate has been over the soruce and orgin of linear adventures for quite a few pages. Notif linera adventtures are or are not roleplaying.

Bollocks.

I have some breadth of experience, but even if I didn't - well, I'm not the one making insulting generalisations about rpgs. You are.

No you are making insuklting assumtpitons about other players with no knoweldge of what you are talking about. Go play some of those old games, read the adventures writtenfor them, then come back when you got a clue about what you are talking about.

The common element to all your bad roleplaying game experiences is you. If almost every game you played was hack and slash with no roleplaying, was it the game, or was it you? Or your GM at the time, perhaps?

No I wasn;t there for all bad role playing experiences. And yes, many RPgs are written with a certain style of play in mind. Go take a loot at some of Gygax's soapboxes from the early 80s where "the way to play D&D" was laid out plain for all to see.

You continually make assumptions that other people lack experience when in fact, it is your lack of experience that is showing. You popped up here becuase you didn't have any familairity with BRP or MRQ. You have since made inquires about Harnmaster. Well many of us her have played those games and have done so for years.

I was there at the conventions in the early 80s where running out of graph paper caused a major crisis at the D&D tables. I was around when the idea of cleric useing edged weapons was the rift for major debates about game balance and how it could destroy gaming.

Were you? If so what were you playing?

A lot of folks here were there doing this or that. That's why they saw it. Right now I'd be willing to walk into any local gaming shop in this country and best money to find a bunch of people going through linear adventures.

But unless you have seen those games you mentioned, don't tell me about them. I have seen a lot of them. And many of them weren't RPGs either.

As for my statement that many of them were based on D&D. What you list doesn't show are the class and experience tables that went with a good many of the early games.

So while you may have bollocks, don't jump into the deep end of the pool without some ballast.

And for the record, By 1980-81 we started to see the next generation of games. Maybe to you it is all lumped into the first decade. TO those who were there playing RQ, is was a lot more spread out.

[Rurik]

Ooooh. Forum fight. Cool.

I'll start taking odds...

Oddly enough, I think they may both be gun fondlers, but on the different sides of this one. That greatly complicates making the odds (always favor the fondler over the guy who doesn't care about guns).

I for one don't think anyone is converting anyone here, but I do always enjoy a good old fashioned flaming.

Come to think of it, we don't get as many good old flame wars these days - they seem to have gone the way of the good ole hack'n'slash appropriately enough for this thread.

>:->

[Atgxtg]

Ooooh. Forum fight. Cool.

I'll start taking odds...

Oddly enough, I think they may both be gun fondlers, but on the different sides of this one. That greatly complicates making the odds (always favor the fondler over the guy who doesn't care about guns).

Hey Rurik, If it helps I'm the one messing around with tank gun stats. I'm fondling the biig gus. And nukes. Gotta have nuke stats.

I for one don't think anyone is converting anyone here, but I do always enjoy a good old fashioned flaming.

Who said anything about converting. I just had my "breadth of experience" questioned. People can (and have) question my opinions, fashion, taste in fiction, televelsion, friends, and hobbies, but my "breadth of experience." Nah. Even the people who disagree with me have given me credit for knowing what games I've played.

Come to think of it, we don't get as many good old flame wars these days - they seem to have gone the way of the good ole hack'n'slash appropriately enough for this thread.

>:->

I don't think we really had as much flame here as elsewhere. Probably because most of us have some familiarity with the BRP rules from past incarnations. I doubt you see anyone where who doesn't like active defenses or any of the other main features of the system. We may quibble over the little things like weapon damage, hit locations, if weapons should have AP rating, strike ranks, or ENC, but we are all really in agreement on the central issues.

[Rurik]

I don't think we really had as much flame here as elsewhere.

I know - that is what I am complaining about. The good ole flame war seems as dead and gone as the old fashioned dungeon crawl and the Windows PC.

[fmitchell]

The good ole flame war seems as dead and gone as the old fashioned dungeon crawl and the Windows PC.

Uh, none of those are dead and gone. Trust me. You're just not moving in the right circles.

The Windows PC is alive and BSODing (for the forseeable future), dungeon crawls are the bread and butter of Goodman Games, and flame wars are as immortal as political doubletalk, human greed, and COBOL.

[Atgxtg]

Uh, none of those are dead and gone. Trust me. You're just not moving in the right circles.

The Windows PC is alive and BSODing (for the forseeable future), dungeon crawls are the bread and butter of Goodman Games, and flame wars are as immortal as political doubletalk, human greed, and COBOL.

I thought he was being sarcastic, but with Rurik being a Yelmalion, I just didn't believe my eyes.

[Ars Mysteriorum]

What's a Yelmalion? :confused:

[Rurik]

I thought he was being sarcastic, but with Rurik being a Yelmalion, I just didn't believe my eyes.

I was - I threw Windows PC in there to try to make that pretty clear - damn things are everywhere (including right in front of me as I type this).

What's a Yelmalion? :confused:

Rurik was the name of the character used the RQII's examples of chargen and play. He rises to Runelord rank in the cult of Yelmalio, which is a rigid militaristic Sun worshipping cult not really known for its' fun loving ways.

I'm not really a totally rigid arse like that* - I just play one on internet forums.

* O.k., maybe I am.

[frogspawner]

The good ole flame war seems as dead and gone as the old fashioned dungeon crawl and the Windows PC.

Sarcastic? Well of course - we had one recently in a thread started by... oh, I forget.

[Atgxtg]

Rurik was the name of the character used the RQII's examples of chargen and play. He rises to Runelord rank in the cult of Yelmalio, which is a rigid militaristic Sun worshipping cult not really known for its' fun loving ways.

I'm not really a totally rigid arse like that* - I just play one on internet forums.

* O.k., maybe I am.

What Rurik fails to mention, and the reason for my comment, is that Light Sons (the term for a Yelmalio Rune Lord) are something of a cross between the D&D Paladins and the Boy Scouts. So sarcasm is a bit unexpected from them. It's not exactly a violation of their code of behavior, but it is atypical.

[Rurik]

Hey, we're a bunch of fun guys. We even have jokes:

Three Yelmalion talking after temple one day:

First Yelmalion: "My worst nightmare would be to be locked in a dark room deprived of Yelm's light for eternity"

Second Yelmalion: "But it would be worse to be stuck in a dark room for all eternity, with only strange women for company"

Third Yelmalion: "That's nothing, my worst nightmare would be to be on a sunny battlefield surrounded by my comrades, slaying Yelm's foes and bringing enlightenment to the unbelievers"

The other two look at him amazed, finally one asks "How could that be bad?"

Third Yelmalion: "I'd be having too much fun!"

[drohem]

Damn! I really got to get that cookie emoticon I'd give you some cookies for that joke!

Hey Triff, can you add that cookie emoticon to the list?

[Atgxtg]

Hey, we're a bunch of fun guys. We even have jokes:

Three Yelmalion talking after temple one day:

First Yelmalion: "My worst nightmare would be to be locked in a dark room deprived of Yelm's light for eternity"

Second Yelmalion: "But it would be worse to be stuck in a dark room for all eternity, with only strange women for company"

Third Yelmalion: "That's nothing, my worst nightmare would be to be on a sunny battlefield surrounded by my comrades, slaying Yelm's foes and bringing enlightenment to the unbelievers"

The other two look at him amazed, finally one asks "How could that be bad?"

Third Yelmalion: "I'd be having too much fun!"

I heard that joke too, but with a different punchline.

Third Yelmalion: "I hate losing."

Just who hasn't bitch-sapped Yelmalio when the lights were out?

[Ars Mysteriorum]

Ah. I kinda wish I had played Runequest instead of D&D. It sounds... deeper.

From what I understand, Issaries has all the rights to Glorantha, right? So there's never going to be a Glorantha setting book for the new BRP?

I'd like to see what made this game so great...

[Atgxtg]

Ah. I kinda wish I had played Runequest instead of D&D. It sounds... deeper.

From what I understand, Issaries has all the rights to Glorantha, right? So there's never going to be a Glorantha setting book for the new BRP?

I'd like to see what made this game so great...

Well, all the RQ2 and 3 stuff would be farily compatable with BRP anyway. Probabvly moreso that the MRQ stuff. Did up a copy of RQ2 or RQ3 for the magic system and you are practically home free.

Stats and skills would covert over easily, and most of the rest is the same.

And yeah, RQ was deeper. There was a differernt emphasis. In D&D a book on religion, such as Deities and Demigods, gave you the gods stats, magical weapons, and address. Not much else. By compasion RQ's Cults of Prax skipped most of that and instead told you what the god did, to whom, and how you should act about it if you wanted to be a good follower. It also had a strong focus of what you get for being a worshipper of so & so. For instance, if you worshipped a warrior god, you usually got so good combat spells, some at a discount, and count learn certain weapon skills at a discount as well.

Gloranta is a very rich setting.

[Rurik]

Well, for fear of Opening a can of worms...

Mongoose Runequest is a current variation of BRP, hated by many old grognards, though I run it and have had fun (perhaps another flame war is coming). Mongoose Publishing has licensed both the RuneQuest name and Glorantha from Issaries, and produced some actually quite good Gloranthan books - many written by authors who have been Gloranthan Writers for HeroQuest as well, though honestly the books by their in house writers are pretty good as well. I've stuck with MRQ based on the strength of their Glorantha books. It is fairly easy to convert the material to BRP (excepting magic - more on this in a moment) and many of the books are mostly source anyway with little to no game mechanics in them.

Moon Design Publishing has reprinted all the fantastic old RQII supplements you hear about to this day (Pavis and the Big Rubble, Borderlands, Cults of Prax and Cults of Terror, Griffin Mountain) and can still be purchased new. These are the supplements that made RuneQuest famous more than the rules themselves I believe. A copy of RQII (pretty easily had off of EBAY) and 1-2 of these and you are good to go. The stats from RQII will be closer to BRP than MRQ's stats will be.

RQ 1-3 and HeroQuest have always been set at the end of the Third Age, while MRQ is set at the end of the Second Age, a time of two great magical empires that eventually basically self destruct and cause widespread destruction across the world (gross simplification).

The biggest problem (excepting using RQII with the reprints) is the Magic Systems. None of the Magic Systems from RQ2 or 3 are recreated in BRP. MRQ has versions of the RQ magic systems, but those to would have to be converted to BRP.

So you can get Glorantha, and use it with BRP, though there is going to be work onw way or another.

[Rurik]

Also, When BRP comes out I'll probably run a PBP if there is enough interest, and I'm currently deciding between Western or Second Age Glorantha.

[Atgxtg]

I don't think there will be a flame war. I just figured old RQ stuff would covert over more easily that new MRQ stuff, since RQ and BRP share things like special successes, resistance table and general hit points.

Plus the post was geared more told the old days.

P.S. If it get's heated I'll break out more puppets!:eek:

Although telling the "Tale of MRQ" in "puppetshow" format could be funny. Could be grounds for a libel suit.:shocked:

[Agentorange]

Though you can get the magic book from RQ3 as a monograph from chaosium to this day....for copyright reasons they've stripped out all the references to RQ but it's basically the same thing. Since they're still using it as a monograph I guess they must have some rights to it, so hopefully we'll see those systems appear in a 'magic' supplement or BRP companion at some point ( fingers crossed )

[Trifletraxor]

Just tell me when you're ready, and I'll create a subforum for you Rurik!

SGL.

[Rurik]

Though you can get the magic book from RQ3 as a monograph from chaosium to this day....for copyright reasons they've stripped out all the references to RQ but it's basically the same thing. Since they're still using it as a monograph I guess they must have some rights to it, so hopefully we'll see those systems appear in a 'magic' supplement or BRP companion at some point ( fingers crossed )

They sell the Monographs as Basic Roleplaying - I wonder if they still will after the release of BRP. But yes, they are exactly RQ3 with the serial numbers filed off, and should work very well with (this) BRP.

[Rurik]

Just tell me when you're ready, and I'll create a subforum for you Rurik!

SGL.

I'll probably run it over at rpol.net because it is so well optimised for pbp - but will definately recruit from here.

Need the rules first. I'm not springing for Zero but waiting for the final release.

[Trifletraxor]

I'll probably run it over at rpol.net because it is so well optimised for pbp - but will definately recruit from here.

Need the rules first. I'm not springing for Zero but waiting for the final release.

;-(

Hehe, just kidding. That's fine, we can have a recruitment thread in the Gamer's Cavern. :thumb:

SGL.

[soltakss]

Rurik was the name of the character used the RQII's examples of chargen and play. He rises to Runelord rank in the cult of Yelmalio, which is a rigid militaristic Sun worshipping cult not really known for its' fun loving ways.

And, of course, he was famous for being killed by a trollkin.