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2011 BRP Reviews/2012 BRP speculations?


TrippyHippy

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What? There are no more vinyls? ;). You're probably right, I'm either too old to realy know what young people like. We shall observe our children but mine is still too young.

Whatever the support, I was speaking about Biomanipulator's idea to make a kind of teasing product for young people. Simple ruleset, simple complements for 2-3 simple basic universe with a lot of fun factor and an attractive price (when not free). One Harry Potter like ambiance, one with Manga-Like feeling and one like what-else-was-popular-among-teen-agers-5-years-ago. May be using simplified or "de-historicized" versions of existing BRP settings? And of course a lot of noise around it.

The question is actually, who will make it?

Wind on the Steppes, role playing among the steppe Nomads. The  running campaign and the blog

 

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Paolo, I tend to agree with you; however, they say this boxed set has sold well in France: http://www.black-book-editions.fr/index.php?site_id=74

Quoting from the blurb:

You will find in this boxed set everything you need for your very first role-playing session:

  • a 2 page visual that lets you "see" how a role-playing game works,
  • complete rules (from character generation to combat through magic use),
  • 4 ready-to-use scenarios, each in 2 hours, and making up a single history full of surprises,
  • a beautiful cardboard GM screen (one side illustrated for the players, and one side with all the tables for the GM),
  • a complete set of dice (D4, D6, D8, D10, D12, and D20)
  • 5 full-colour character sheets,
  • the map of the village of Clearvale.

Edited by GianniVacca
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BRP has the unfortunate association with Chaosium. Which for many new gamers Chaosium is a legacy company not capable of producing shiny new products that is overlay with a complicated mechanic. If you look at the BRP book, you will see what they mean. We converts need to see the forest and trees... And, the second aspect is that Chaosium is associated with Call of Cthulhu and not horror in general or even cosmic horror.

Much as I love Call of Cthulhu, and I really do, it has been a while since Chaosium did really something beautiful with the product line. And, I think beauty is the right word as where Pathfinder & D+D beats us it is in the aesthetic sense. Chaosium has relied on secondary tier companies like Pagan or C7 to pick up the slack. Now, many game stores will not risk picking up a boutique product like Bumps in the Night (ordering 4-6 copies to negate the high postage charge and spreading the cost) nor are they likely to invest heavily in World War Cthulhu until they see there is a market for it. Rather go with the safe distributor that either the grognards (us) will buy everything that Chaosium produces or have a company that they can return things back to the distributor should it not sell (and Chaosium one such company).

Also, Chaosium is missing where the horror is... I pick any of Pelgrane products especially Fear Itself but even the Esoterrorist books - I can feel the fear. The way they have structured Call of Cthulhu and even monographs is not induce fear. "The only emotion in the world is fear, and the oldest fear is fear of the unknown" by making every supplement/adventure a Cthulhu monster rather a serial killer. Similarly, exploring aspects of horror that are innate - say fear of fire - maybe there is GOO lurking behind the arson attacks in an investigator's neighborhood or maybe it is a drug crazed youth gang. But, the feeling of being tied up in a burning house by some pyromaniacs would induce more fear than any alien from Formant.

Sadly, it is those rare adventures that push the envelope we grognards thrive upon in story but the new ones seem to lack the same punch - was it because they were better written or was because the mechanic was pushed aside for the story. Sometimes, I think that BRP/CoC suffers from dice rolling rather than encouraging the story to run its course. And, I know that is the province of the Keeper but BRP never makes this explicit unlike say White Wolf games. Similarly, exercises in purple pose like Goodman's Cthulhu line fall flat.

So, if BRP is to survive it must gain a sense of the aesthetic or mood of players out there capture that and also move toward a more narrativist game structure. I think that is why Trail is doing so well. We may disagree about the mechanic (how it gets there) but they have managed to get the right feeling. And, it must also deal a death knell to GURPS which like it or not is BRP's biggest competitor as it is still too small to take on the likes of D+D or Pathfinder.

Edited by kafka
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Yes, Gianni, but to what audience did it sell well? That kind of product (there is an Italian equivalent) has two main targets:

- people who used to play "in the days"

- people who were told about "how great games were when they came in the boxes"

The percentage of people who buy it because it is an autonomous introduction to gaming, without an elder player telling them to, is rather low. All in all, the sales are almost always the effect of a "nostalgia syndrome", whether experienced by the buyer or by the person who persuaded him or her to buy.

I bet that ANY product that leverages Facebook, other social media or mobile platforms would generate a gazillion more sales among the young people (barring children of members of this forum). And now I am starting to have some more "factual" data about this :)

Proud member of the Evil CompetitionTM

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Well, I have some ideas about the people to whom "La Marca dell'Est" (the Italo-Spanish equivalent) was sold, and the average age is 35 or more AFAIK.

Do you REALLY think that you have to include a chapter explaining "What is a roleplaying game" to sell a game to the generation of kids who, in the unlikely event they have never seen "World of Warcraft" in action, have dozens of "Kill Things and Take Their Stuff" available for free on their CELLPHONES?

Proud member of the Evil CompetitionTM

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Do you REALLY think that you have to include a chapter explaining "What is a roleplaying game" to sell a game to the generation of kids who, in the unlikely event they have never seen "World of Warcraft" in action, have dozens of "Kill Things and Take Their Stuff" available for free on their CELLPHONES?

Well maybe you do wanna add a chapter about "sometimes you needn't kill your adversaries"... :(

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I think the discussion here on boxed sets is a bit on the narrow side.

Take a look at how The One Ring has been packaged. A sleeve, complete with dice. It wouldn't be hard to put hand outs in there either. It would still sit on a shelf, and be much less compressible than an old set.

Now, I will admit that is more expensive, and would be only for an intro box or limited run. Love to see Cthulhu 7 coming out that way, or as someone upthread mentioned, a WoW set.

Things don't have to be like the old-style boxed sets.

SDLeary

Edited by SDLeary
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So, if BRP is to survive it must gain a sense of the aesthetic or mood of players out there capture that and also move toward a more narrativist game structure. I think that is why Trail is doing so well. We may disagree about the mechanic (how it gets there) but they have managed to get the right feeling. And, it must also deal a death knell to GURPS which like it or not is BRP's biggest competitor as it is still too small to take on the likes of D+D or Pathfinder.

I am not convinced that it would be a wise business strategy for Chaosium to let their

Cthulhu line go the way of Trail of Cthulhu , because this would mean to compete direct-

ly with their own licensee, which is rarely a profitable approach. As for GURPS, I see the

relation between BRP and GURPS more like a mutual support for a specific style of roleplay-

ing than like a situation where the death of one system would in any way help the other

system.

"Mind like parachute, function only when open."

(Charlie Chan)

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I think the discussion here on boxed sets is a bit on the narrow side.

Take a look at how The One Ring has been packaged. A sleeve, complete with dice. It wouldn't be hard to put hand outs in there either. It would still sit on a shelf, and be much less compressible than an old set. <...>

Things don't have to be like the old-style boxed sets.

Personally, I like the LotFP 'boxed set', which actually is not a real boxed set, more like a sleeve with several booklets in it.

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Boxes are as attractive as vinyl records to young people. They are a leftover from the past that only collectors and old people like us will appreciate. Sure, they are the symbol of an era of great fun, but their time is gone.

My 9 year old daughter loves board games with lots of fiddly bits. And they come in boxes. She is thrilled when she opens a present with a boxed game inside.

I would love a BRP WoW intro box for the three genres mentioned. Include a starter rulesbook, an intro adventure for each genre, and cardboard hero standups. I'd be buying them for all my nephews, nieces, and my friends' kids. There. How much would it cost?

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Paolo, I tend to agree with you; however, they say this boxed set has sold well in France: http://www.black-book-editions.fr/index.php?site_id=74

Quoting from the blurb:

You will find in this boxed set everything you need for your very first role-playing session:

  • a 2 page visual that lets you "see" how a role-playing game works,
  • complete rules (from character generation to combat through magic use),
  • 4 ready-to-use scenarios, each in 2 hours, and making up a single history full of surprises,
  • a beautiful cardboard GM screen (one side illustrated for the players, and one side with all the tables for the GM),
  • a complete set of dice (D4, D6, D8, D10, D12, and D20)
  • 5 full-colour character sheets,
  • the map of the village of Clearvale.

Wow. This description is about as ideal as it gets. Map of the village? How about a couple of simple battlemat-pieces, too?

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New Guy here (man, I wonder how long I can use this as an excuse?). I have played CoC for many years and I loved it. I do have to agree with kafka though, BRP should steer away from CoC and look towards different horror. Most people I know of here in the U.S. say the exact thing about CoC; "You investigate, you go crazy, you die. Not a game for me." What's creepy is, people who have never met each other say those exact words. The point being, CoC has a certain perception and perception is reality. Delta Green was a fantastic setting that I was sorry to see not flourish.

Expanding on horror, zombies (and not just the lame ones that stagger around), weird medical experiments, serial killers, a coven of Vampires that are true predatory vampires (no sparkling here) and a host of "evilness" is an avenue I'd like to see BRP explore and take advantage of in the future.

Pathfinder (which I love) reminds me of what AD&D should have been and it is incredibly well received. While I don't personally like the art, it is action packed and catches the imagination's eye and the mundane eye. Give me a good core rulebook, but give me plenty of well written adventures. And you have all the money I can throw at you!

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Boxes are as attractive as vinyl records to young people. They are a leftover from the past that only collectors and old people like us will appreciate. Sure, they are the symbol of an era of great fun, but their time is gone.

Vinyls are coming back in. They are being reissued left, right and centre these days. Young people are buying them - I guess because of their novelty, but also because they look cooler than CDs, and give more a sense of ownership than downloaded music.

Box sets are also coming back in - virtue of the evidence of the two major publishers making introductionary boxes for their flagship brands.

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So, if BRP is to survive it must gain a sense of the aesthetic or mood of players out there capture that and also move toward a more narrativist game structure. I think that is why Trail is doing so well. We may disagree about the mechanic (how it gets there) but they have managed to get the right feeling. And, it must also deal a death knell to GURPS which like it or not is BRP's biggest competitor as it is still too small to take on the likes of D+D or Pathfinder.

I'm not sure there is any evidence that Trail of Cthulhu is doing any better than Call of Cthulhu. They are supporting their line, obviously, which they need to do having bought the license. However, the game gets as much criticism for it's design from some players as Call of Cthulhu ever did, and it's a fledgling in it's comparitive age - I'd like to see where Trail of Cthulhu is in 30 years time, before it is able to hand out lectures in design quality. I don't think BRP/CoC suffers from dice rolling rather than encouraging the story - I'm inclined to believe that the heavily directed 'Narrative' games tend to do this more than the 'sillhouette' approach to rules that BRP has. I came into Call of Cthulhu from White Wolf games, by the way, too. Call of Cthulhu has seemingly outlasted White Wolf too, for the most part.

I do agree that the games image and ruleset needs to be modernised - but I'm looking more in the mode of The Laundry game as being the model here.

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New Guy here (man, I wonder how long I can use this as an excuse?). I have played CoC for many years and I loved it. I do have to agree with kafka though, BRP should steer away from CoC and look towards different horror. Most people I know of here in the U.S. say the exact thing about CoC; "You investigate, you go crazy, you die. Not a game for me." What's creepy is, people who have never met each other say those exact words. The point being, CoC has a certain perception and perception is reality. Delta Green was a fantastic setting that I was sorry to see not flourish.

Expanding on horror, zombies (and not just the lame ones that stagger around), weird medical experiments, serial killers, a coven of Vampires that are true predatory vampires (no sparkling here) and a host of "evilness" is an avenue I'd like to see BRP explore and take advantage of in the future.

All of those horror storylines are within the scope of Call of Cthulhu, already. Whether it needs to communicate it better is a moot point - the Cthulhu brand continues to sell in a multitude of different media. Delta Green, apparently, is having a new updated edition this year.

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To me (a huge HPL fan from way back), the attraction of CoC IS the mythos. Although I think you can play that game using whatever foes you want to, and in whatever style you like. (I usually "pulp" the mood up, myself.) I find that particular version of BRP to be nice and streamlined, and have had no trouble evoking a mood or telling a story with it. My players can attest to that.

I think using CoC for a gateway to BRP is, well, already done. For older gamers. You're not going to recruit the 9 - 12 year old crowd with a Cthulhu game, so I'd stick to a WoW-type set for that.

If someone wanted to make a boxed product for CoC, well, I'd buy one. But what would interest me would be something reusable, such as pretty "dungeon" tiles, figures and miniatures. I certainly don't need an introductory set.

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I think people are really undervaluing the IPs here.

The Cthulhu Mythos sells well - if that wasn't the case then companies like Pelgrane Press, Pinnacle Games, Cubicle 7, Fantasy Flight Games, et al, wouldn't keep paying out for the license to make new products. There wouldn't be an imminent iPhone based game just about to be released. There wouldn't be a box set Arkham board game in every hobby shop I've ever been in either. Put it this way - Chaosium has been pretty much the longest running RPG company out there - purely on the strength of the Cthulhu brand. It is that significant.

Also, the BRP system itself is a quality IP. It's still one of the most accessible, adaptable and comprehensive systems out there. Almost every gamer can grasp it upon reading it - regardless of whether they are snooty about it or not.

Systems, products and presentation need modernising to attract new audiences, of course, but let's not undervalue what the assets are in the first place.

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Personally, I like the LotFP 'boxed set', which actually is not a real boxed set, more like a sleeve with several booklets in it.

Sounds similar. The One Ring is the two perfect bound books with a section above the books for an insert that holds the dice.

Now that I've thought about it a bit more.... a good intro, packaged in this way, would be a cleaned up Quick Start edition (and slightly expanded) of BRP, and perhaps Val-du-Lup, cleaned up and typeset by Chaosium. They could include maps, perhaps a couple of hand outs, and a set of dice.

SDLeary

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Changing tack somewhat -

What other genres/licences/games/ideas could be done with BRP that hasn't been done already?

There are a few that spring to mind for myself:

James Bond 007 - Looking at The Laundry, Delta Green and a host of other modern/spy games coming out this year, my feeling is that gritty modern action thrillers can definitely be done well with BRP. The old James Bond game was percentile based (although quite different to BRP), but for me this would a brilliant license for a game company to develop (Cubicle 7 - I'm looking at you!), and it's a movie franchise that is going to run for at least another decade (and probably a lot longer than that). Yes, I think it could be done in a box set!

Blue Planet 3rd Edition - The original game was percentile, but the system was over complex. The second edition's system was much better, but the games' premise was so well suited to BRP it was a shame they didn't consider it. BRP scales well towards playing Transhumans and uplifted animals - in my view better than GURPS does (having seen Transhuman Space and GURPS Blue Planet). And the setting is still magnificent - in my view the best hard sci-fi setting in gaming.

Wraith: The Oblivion - I was pleased to see Cthulhu Dreamlands be republished this year, and it reminded me of the pleasures of this type of Jungianesque surreal gaming. Wraith was one of the handful of horror games that actually shone a light on Call of Cthulhu, and the reason was it's emotional depth captured mainly by it's Shadow Play concept (where another player plays your dark alter ego, and tempts him/her into acting towards their own personal oblivion). The game system used by Wraith was simply a generic Storyteller system, so there is no issue with converting it to BRP with the right mindset. It could make a wonderful supplement for Call of Cthulhu, in fact, if you wanted to bring a bit of Edgar Allen Poe into the mix.

BRP - Rennaissance - I am really pleased with the historical supplements put out for BRP. Rome was terrific, so is Merrie England. So is Clockwork and Chivarly. So is Mythic Iceland and Cthulhu Dark Ages. So is Val -de-Loup. Hopefully so too will be World War Cthulhu. The list goes on and on. But what about the Rennaissance - The Elizabethan Age, Walter Raleigh, John Dee, Galileo, Shakespeare, The Inquisition, The Spanish Amada, The Holy Roman Empire, the Catholic/Protestant split, burning witches, pirates, exploration, intrigue, Blackadder II...This really NEEDS a major supplement!

What else would people like to see?

Edited by TrippyHippy
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While I would certainly buy BRP Blue Planet, I would be even more interested in

a generic science fiction "toolbox" which adds the fields of science fiction not

covered by the core rules, especially the technology with a system for the con-

struction of vehicles of all kinds (from ground cars to starships).

"Mind like parachute, function only when open."

(Charlie Chan)

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..I would be even more interested in

a generic science fiction "toolbox" which adds the fields of science fiction not

covered by the core rules, especially the technology with a system for the con-

struction of vehicles of all kinds (from ground cars to starships).

Yeah, what rust said! ;t)

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