Jump to content

ETA on Call of Cthulhu 7E?


sureshot

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 54
  • Created
  • Last Reply

I remember hearing that their is a new edition of COC in the works. It's not a major overhaul of the system just minor tweaks. Is this true?

My understanding is that it's currently with several groups invited privately by Chaosium to test / develop, so unknown. But from hints I've heard, it's a bigger step than 5th to 6th or 3rd to 4th, and also pays more attention to the existence of the "BGB" edition of BRP... But it's still obsoletely a BRP game and fully compatible with the back catalogue.

Any date for the release if it is?

Nope - an with no completed ms in house, why would we expect one?

You figure they would want to advertise it all over the place.
One advertises a product one has for sale: advertising the possibility of a product that one MAY, at some undetermined point in the future, be able to sell, is a recipe for disaster: as Chaosium have found to their own cost before with various projects (Pulp Cthulhu being the current big example). I wouldn't expect to hear official confirmation of it's existence until it's in house and art assignment / final layout is under way or indeed nearly completed.

Cheers,

Nick

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not thrilled to hear that a seventh edition may have significant changes in it. The thing that has kept me a loyal consumer of CoC merchandise on a regular basis has been that unlike a lot of other rpg systems, Cthulhu has remained essentially the same. Ah well, it's not on the shelf yet, so I'll just wait and see what they come up with.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It makes sense to have a new CoC edition reasonably consistent with the BGB. Rules amendments and even new rules are fine with me, just as long as it is backward compatible with the preexisting scenarios and setting material.

One of the strengths with this system (and setting) is that the entire back catalogue is still current. I love the fact that I just bought the reissue of 'Masks of Nylathotep', originally published in the early '80s, and I can use it with my current edition of CoC, about 30 years later.

Not many games on the market that you can do that with straight out of the box.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to disagree, in that I think it should go the other way around. BGB is a compilation of various options from various BRP gamesets from over the years. To me, it makes quite a bit of sense to present in such a collection the system used in the longest-running, unchanged version of BRP that's out there; CoC. Then present various other options, if you like, to allow people to layer on the variants they may prefer.

Why would you take an extent, popular system and then revise *it* to fit better with a hodgepodge of various versions of games that are no longer in print?

Just my opinion, of course.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It is as Nick said Chaosium have come a cropper on this before....back in the 80's they advertised a Runequest product called Dorastor.......14 years later it finally turned up ;-D

Actually, they also advertised a product called HeroQuest. It came out in 2002.

Why would you take an extent, popular system and then revise *it* to fit better with a hodgepodge of various versions of games that are no longer in print?

In order to provide people with the most stable, playtested way of incorporating all the good bits and pieces from those games, of course.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My understanding is that it's currently with several groups invited privately by Chaosium to test / develop, so unknown. But from hints I've heard, it's a bigger step than 5th to 6th or 3rd to 4th, and also pays more attention to the existence of the "BGB" edition of BRP... But it's still obsoletely a BRP game and fully compatible with the back catalogue.

Good to know. I'm hoping that it's different enough yet compitable with the previous editions of CoC. With 6 editions it makes no sense imo to release another rehash. At worst even if it is different enough they include an a conversion appendix at the back for those who prefer the older system

Nope - an with no completed ms in house, why would we expect one?

I could have sworn it was slated for a Gencon 2012 release. I could be wrong.

One advertises a product one has for sale: advertising the possibility of a product that one MAY, at some undetermined point in the future, be able to sell, is a recipe for disaster: as Chaosium have found to their own cost before with various projects (Pulp Cthulhu being the current big example). I wouldn't expect to hear official confirmation of it's existence until it's in house and art assignment / final layout is under way or indeed nearly completed.

True enough yet when I mean by advertising something along the lines of "CoC 7E in the works! Stay tuned!" or something along those lines

Why would you take an extent, popular system and then revise *it* to fit better with a hodgepodge of various versions of games that are no longer in print?

As much as some might disagree you can only sell the same version of an rpg so many times without any changes before no one buys it. If 7E is a rehash of 6E why would I buy the same rules a second time around. I like that the older sourcebooks are still compitable yet in the current market it needs to offer more than backwards compitabliltiy. It needs to address rules that need to changed or altered. With rpgs costing 40-60$ CoC needs more than "buys me i havent't changed much since 1E" to get older fans to buy imo. From what I read on the net already some fans who have either 5E or ^e want nothing to do what a 7E if it's more of the same. I don't blame them either.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It is as Nick said Chaosium have come a cropper on this before....back in the 80's they advertised a Runequest product called Dorastor.......14 years later it finally turned up ;-D

It was pretty good though

And lets not forget Heroquest!

SDLeary

Rosen beat me to it!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not thrilled to hear that a seventh edition may have significant changes in it. The thing that has kept me a loyal consumer of CoC merchandise on a regular basis has been that unlike a lot of other rpg systems, Cthulhu has remained essentially the same. Ah well, it's not on the shelf yet, so I'll just wait and see what they come up with.

Easy enough to ignore it. That's what I plan on doing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

At the risk of a potential cyber-stoning, I'll say there are some things that COC could add, perhaps as optional rules.

I like the idea of Motivations and Sources of Stability as given in Pelgrane Press' Trail of Cthulhu. Maybe a mechanism for determining the character's social and familial mileu. I always hate having to invent that 'cousin' who has mysteriously gone missing, to provide a hook to pull them into the scenario.

Mongoose Press' OGL Horror had three different kinds of Horror Saves; Panic, as when you hear an unexpected sound; Fear, when, while investigating the sound, you find a corpse; and Madness, when the corpse lurches jerkily to its feet. I like the idea of trauma that could lead to stress disorders, being distinct from the Lovecraftian Insanity that arises when your concept of the natural order crumbles from the onslaught of the mythos.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the idea of Motivations and Sources of Stability as given in Pelgrane Press' Trail of Cthulhu. Maybe a mechanism for determining the character's social and familial mileu. I always hate having to invent that 'cousin' who has mysteriously gone missing, to provide a hook to pull them into the scenario.

The page count of CoC is getting out of hand (or maybe not):

There are two ways they can go. Either they make another "edition" to the game that is almost identical to the previous with a new cover (and sixty or seventy extra pages), or they can try to integrate it with the BRPBGB and only use the page count as more of a Cthulhu Sourcebook. Neither of these options are all that attractive, but at least with the latter option, you can have page count dedicated to modular systems like the one you suggest to tack on to the core engine. The problem with that approach is (at least) twofold. First, CoC is the flagship. It is why Chaosium is still in business, and is most of the reason BRP/d100/WTF you want to call it survived the 90s. CoC needs to be its own game to drag people in through name recognition. Second (and the reason I have never understood), is that people don't want to essentially pay twice for a game system. 60USD to play an rpg _forever_ seems like a lot of money to people who will drop the same amount of money on a videogame (the vast majority of which have limited replayability), dvds/movie theater visits, concerts/sporting events, alcohol etc.

So we are left with a book with a huge page count. And now that I am this far in my response, I realize that most people nowadays don't mind a huge page count. Pathfinder, which is arguably the most popular game system currently, clocks in at like 500 pages for the core rules. _And very few people only use the core rules_.

It just seems to me (without a shred of even anecdotal evidence to back me up) that they should shoot for something smaller and easier to pick up and play. I think that the page count bloat we see now is targeted more at people who are already gamers, and that this is another symptom of the inevitable decline of the pastime.

In that case, sign me up for a BIG ASS version with a ton of extra stuff like you're asking for, plus why not throw in Pulp CoC as an appendix? I may actually shell out cash for a CoC product if that happened.

Mongoose Press' OGL Horror had three different kinds of Horror Saves; Panic, as when you hear an unexpected sound; Fear, when, while investigating the sound, you find a corpse; and Madness, when the corpse lurches jerkily to its feet. I like the idea of trauma that could lead to stress disorders, being distinct from the Lovecraftian Insanity that arises when your concept of the natural order crumbles from the onslaught of the mythos.

I've used something similar since the mid 90s in my games. People were getting angry at being nickel and dimed out of small amounts of SAN at every turn and I threw in what's called a Composure roll. Composure equals CON+POW/4 and checks are made on a d10. Anything that isn't putting the fear of God(s) into the PC just forces a Comp roll. A critical success gives them a little bonus for a while, a success means they shrug it off, a fail has mostly minor effects, and a fumble means the potential for something really bad, and a lot of times generates a SAN roll. I only have them roll for SAN when it is a big deal, and since there is the Comp cushion giving a kid glove feel to the lesser events, SAN rolls are usually at a penalty and you don't want to have to throw the dice for them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to disagree, in that I think it should go the other way around. BGB is a compilation of various options from various BRP gamesets from over the years.

With a default baseline that is a synthesis of two games - one of which is Call of Cthulhu 6th edition...

To me, it makes quite a bit of sense to present in such a collection the system used in the longest-running, unchanged version of BRP that's out there; CoC. Then present various other options, if you like, to allow people to layer on the variants they may prefer.

Why would you take an extent, popular system and then revise *it* to fit better with a hodgepodge of various versions of games that are no longer in print?

Err, the BGB is neither a "hodgepodge" nor is it out of print - which is the point. The revisions as I understand it (from cryptic hints at Yog-Sothoth.com so I may be entirely wrong) are precisley aimed at making incorporating options from BRP easier, and in addressing some long standing incoherences in the CoC rules (stuff like skill levels, degrees of success, how Dodge works etc). From what I have heard NONE of these changes are aimed at adding complexity to CoC for the sake of it: it's about clarifying areas of long standing confusion, easier adaptation of stuff from the BGB toolkit and refining the CoC specific implementation of the BRP engine for a modern audience.

Let's be fair - the text of CoC hasn't changed significantly since the mid nineties and large chunks of that text were directly inherited from Sandy Petersen's original text which is now over thirty years old. It is passed time to stop constantly tweaking that text in to new layouts and actually methodically re-edit the whole thing in to a coherent whole again - and doing so presents a golden opportunity to address some long standing areas of contradictory information or opaqueness in the currently published rules.

Cheers,

Nick

Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's be fair - the text of CoC hasn't changed significantly since the mid nineties and large chunks of that text were directly inherited from Sandy Petersen's original text which is now over thirty years old. It is passed time to stop constantly tweaking that text in to new layouts and actually methodically re-edit the whole thing in to a coherent whole again - and doing so presents a golden opportunity to address some long standing areas of contradictory information or opaqueness in the currently published rules.

Agreed and seconded. I'm not saying a completely new edition yet I see no reason not to clear up and clarify. revise and update confusing and/or contradictory rules. If they market it that way I would more than likely purchase 7E. If it's just more of the same with a better layout chances are no. Before anyone says "well you can houesrule it". True yet it's not exactly the greatest way to sell an rpg. Gamers imo want to use an rpg out of the box. not fiddle around with it. Chaosium imo has to offer something to get those with previous editrions to buy again.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The page count of CoC is getting out of hand (or maybe not):

There are two ways they can go. Either they make another "edition" to the game that is almost identical to the previous with a new cover (and sixty or seventy extra pages), or they can try to integrate it with the BRPBGB and only use the page count as more of a Cthulhu Sourcebook. Neither of these options are all that attractive, but at least with the latter option, you can have page count dedicated to modular systems like the one you suggest to tack on to the core engine. The problem with that approach is (at least) twofold. First, CoC is the flagship. It is why Chaosium is still in business, and is most of the reason BRP/d100/WTF you want to call it survived the 90s. CoC needs to be its own game to drag people in through name recognition. Second (and the reason I have never understood), is that people don't want to essentially pay twice for a game system. 60USD to play an rpg _forever_ seems like a lot of money to people who will drop the same amount of money on a videogame (the vast majority of which have limited replayability), dvds/movie theater visits, concerts/sporting events, alcohol etc.

So we are left with a book with a huge page count. And now that I am this far in my response, I realize that most people nowadays don't mind a huge page count. Pathfinder, which is arguably the most popular game system currently, clocks in at like 500 pages for the core rules. _And very few people only use the core rules_.

It just seems to me (without a shred of even anecdotal evidence to back me up) that they should shoot for something smaller and easier to pick up and play. I think that the page count bloat we see now is targeted more at people who are already gamers, and that this is another symptom of the inevitable decline of the pastime.

In that case, sign me up for a BIG ASS version with a ton of extra stuff like you're asking for, plus why not throw in Pulp CoC as an appendix? I may actually shell out cash for a CoC product if that happened.

I've used something similar since the mid 90s in my games. People were getting angry at being nickel and dimed out of small amounts of SAN at every turn and I threw in what's called a Composure roll. Composure equals CON+POW/4 and checks are made on a d10. Anything that isn't putting the fear of God(s) into the PC just forces a Comp roll. A critical success gives them a little bonus for a while, a success means they shrug it off, a fail has mostly minor effects, and a fumble means the potential for something really bad, and a lot of times generates a SAN roll. I only have them roll for SAN when it is a big deal, and since there is the Comp cushion giving a kid glove feel to the lesser events, SAN rolls are usually at a penalty and you don't want to have to throw the dice for them.

I like the suggestion above. I might use it.

I think the notion of SAN points is a little silly. You are either insane or you are not. Sure, a person can lose SAN over time, but people usually get over the initial shock and get used to the bizarre things that shook them up to begin with. I know that CoC has rules for that as well. People with more SAN get over shocks faster and better. I was trying to come up with something that emulates that.

I was thinking of something like SANx4 or x5 (typical SAN check) and just going by levels, sort of like what you're doing. However, I downloaded the GORE sanity rules from this site, and I think I will look them over again. If you are going to use SAN points, then the difference in dice rolled might be a great way to do things. You could adjust the level from cinematic to gritty depending on what the PC's SAN level is.

Link to post
Share on other sites

When I played in "The Masks of Nyarlathothep" our GM only asked for SAN rolls when we saw something new, was generous giving SAN rewards for successful missions and played down the effects of SAN. Without it, we would never have completed the campaign. (My character had turned into a hideous monster/Cthulhu cultist with zero SAN and long before it ended=.

Link to post
Share on other sites

How about a pool of "Composure Points", equal to 1/5 a character's SAN. She can spend these points, at will, to "buy" off trivial SAN checks for non-Mythos stuff. During character creation you select one to three different things that the character does to "release stress", hobbies, or even vices, that regenerate your pool of "Composure Points", at a rate of 1d6/hour. If the pool gets spent, then she's stressed, and must make SAN checks as normal.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 months later...

I hope Chaosium takes some pages from the French Edition playbook for layout and optional rules. That is a stunning book.

That book just looks awesome, what's the artwork like inside?

I would like to see a 7th ed. of CoC as long as it supplements what we already have - it'd be really irritating to have to purchase Malleus Monstrorum, and other supplements all over again. Having said that though, I did with nWOD stuff, and for Gurps - so why not CoC?

Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest one of CoC major benefits is the depth and breadth of the scenarios that are available both free and published. Cutting off those with a radical change to the rule mechanisms would not be a sensible move on the part of a publisher tat relies so heavily on the fans.

I suspect that we'll see previews at Games Expo and Continuum in the UK and Origins in the US before a launch at Gencon 2012.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What I've heard, expect changes but nothing that breaks backward compatibility. And new rules provided as options. So you can expect to have decades of use from that old Malleus Monstrorum.

As for the interior artwork of L'Appel de Cthulhu...The PDF link titled Extraits du titre on the web page provided is a preview. If you have the latest Keepers screen offered by Chaosium you'll know what to expect, its an English version of the one published by Sans-D├ętour.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

I've been reading some Lovecraft recently and I've noticed some nuances that the rulebooks haven't picked up.

that last amorphous blight of nethermost confusion which blasphemes and bubbles at the centre of all infinity - the boundless daemon sultan Azathoth, whose name no lips dare speak aloud, and who gnaws hungrily in inconceivable, unlighted chambers beyond time amidst the muffled, maddening beating of vile drums and the thin, monotonous whine of accursed flutes; to which detestable pounding and piping dance slowly, awkwardly, and absurdly the gigantic Ultimate gods, the blind, voiceless, tenebrous, mindless Other gods whose soul and messenger is the crawling chaos Nyarlathotep.

Now reading that it implies that the Ultimate Gods, and the Other Gods are two different yet distinct species in his mythos. I hope they make the dinstinction in the new edition.

Night and the spheres sang it, and it was old when space and Nyarlathotep and the Other Gods were born.

Now with liberal interpetation and some assumption you could say that Night (Nyx) could be an Elder god here, and the Other gods coule be equals? It would explain how Nodens get's one up on Nyarly at the end of this story. Thoughts?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been reading some Lovecraft recently and I've noticed some nuances that the rulebooks haven't picked up.

Now reading that it implies that the Ultimate Gods, and the Other Gods are two different yet distinct species in his mythos. I hope they make the dinstinction in the new edition.

Now with liberal interpetation and some assumption you could say that Night (Nyx) could be an Elder god here, and the Other gods coule be equals? It would explain how Nodens get's one up on Nyarly at the end of this story. Thoughts?

I read it as Ultimate Gods and Other Gods being kind of interchangeable terms. Also, isn't 'Night' capitalised because it is at the start of the sentence? I mean 'space' isn't capitalized later on.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I read it as Ultimate Gods and Other Gods being kind of interchangeable terms.

To be honest so did I until I read that bit about the Ultimate Gods, again, and maybe saw something I did not last time. Which means the Lovecraft mythology makes far more sense now - to me anyway, that the former are more powerful and rarely bother to get involved; whereas the Other gods are like tha janitors of the cosmos in some ways.

Also, isn't 'Night' capitalised because it is at the start of the sentence? I mean 'space' isn't capitalized later on.

It is capitalised as you say, and it was more conjecture on my part than anything else, maybe all the Titans and Olympians are Great Ones while those older beings are Elder gods, sort of like Hypnos. It would make a certain kinda sense. I wonder if they'll state up Satan in this edition as he appears in The Horror at Red Hook.

EDIT: I wish Chaosium would stop making the 'mild gods of Earth' into Elder gods and changing the setting.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...