Luca Cherstich Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 I'm trying to figure out who's who among these two. Does anybody have more information on them? I know they should be both Duke Eldol's heirs and the old duchy of Glevum & Clarence was certanly later divided in two. In the GPC p.61 (year 494) they are refered to as the "twin bannerets of Glevum" (one in Green, the other in Red). From Bow p. 21 and BoU p.102 we know: that Eldol' heraldry is a bear on a gules (red) and vert (green) field, possibly as a prelude to the division between the two. that Chaleins should be a great-greatson of Eldol. that Heli should be a grandson of Eldol. Who among these two rule Clarence and who rules Glevum? Who is Green and who is Red? I have no idea why, but long time ago I arbitrarily decided that Heli ruled Clarence and Chaleins ruled Glevum, but I know I can be wrong. More recently, checking the PDF of the Arthurian Companion (I'm a backer) on page 54 I found a "Chaleins, Duke of Clarance" which participated to Duke Galeholt’s tournament in Surluse, which I guess should be the one dated to 552 (GPC 307). This means that the tournament happened 58 years after the episode of the "Twin Bannerets".....consequently this "Chaleins Duke of Clarence" cannot be the same great-grandson of Eldol which quarreled throughout the anarchy with Heli. Furthermore, Chaleins' Heraldry on the Arthurian Companion has nothing to do with either green or red bears (as it shows a castle on a azure field). Maybe this Chaleins is just a nephew or a son of the earlier Chaleins. Furthermore neither Heli nor the (first) Chaleins maybe survived the anarchy, as the GPC p.128 mentions "Duke Escan of Gloucester", while the dukedom of Clarence seem vacant later on, as it was given to Galegantis. The question is: what was Greg Stafford meaning when he mentioned Heli & Chaleins in BoU and BoW? I know there may not be an answer. As I know that all this is "definitively not real history" (therefore multiple hypotheses may all be true and valid), and I know that Greg Stafford used to continuously change and adapt its books. However, does anybody have more information of this topic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morien Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 1 hour ago, Luca Cherstich said: The question is: what was Greg Stafford meaning when he mentioned Heli & Chaleins in BoU and BoW? I know there may not be an answer. As I know that all this is "definitively not real history" (therefore multiple hypotheses may all be true and valid), and I know that Greg Stafford used to continuously change and adapt its books. Greg changed his mind between GPC and BotW/BoU. That's all there is to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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