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Melee combat range


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Working on a hack for UGE that is using fighting games as a heavy influence. As such, melee range is going to be hugely important for keeping enemies at range (kicks), or closing range (grappling) etc. So as not to reinvent the wheel, are there any rules that already exist for this (detailed melee range and weapons effects) in BRP?

I realize that this may be a bridge too far for most gamers, but I like overly detailed simulation type stuff sometimes (MERP, Millenium's End or even Phoenix Command/Aliens Adventure Game/Living Steel anyone?)

-STS

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In RQ3, you could "invert" weapon strike rank (initiative modifier due to weapon length) so that users of long weapons would be at a disadvantage, 4-weapon SR.

The rules for engaging ad disengaging might apply when closing in, too.

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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On 9/2/2024 at 10:12 AM, sladethesniper said:

Working on a hack for UGE that is using fighting games as a heavy influence. As such, melee range is going to be hugely important for keeping enemies at range (kicks), or closing range (grappling) etc. So as not to reinvent the wheel, are there any rules that already exist for this (detailed melee range and weapons effects) in BRP?

It might help if you could indicate what you think of the existing provisions in UGE (the spot rules on Close Combat, Closing and Weapon Length)? At the very least, I could see re-writing the three to be a single, comprehensive set of rules and more consistently using the "range" value assigned to melee weapons in the Equipment chapter.

Alternatively, the BRP:BGB(NOT ORC released, so you would have to re-write in your own words to include in something published under ORC) included a version of the RQ3 strike rank system as an option?

Edited by NickMiddleton
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Mithras.

Special Effects comprise weapon-specific effects and the possibility to change range. You get Special Effects by having a better success quality than your opponent in an attack or defense roll.

There's also a distinct action to change range if you want.

Range change the damage you can deal with your weapon.

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When preparing my WIP for the BRP competition, I had half the mind to try to simulate the "short measure", "long measure", "out of measure" thinking of historical swordplay into the system.

Short measure = character is close enough to attack with a single movement (thrust, slash, lunge - note that these include certain amount of forward movement)

Long measure = character needs to take one step to close in before making the attack

Out of measure = character would need to take two steps or more to close the distance before attack

This would also have to take into account the arm and weapon lengths (longer arm and/or longer weapon is in "short measure" sooner than a short weapon).... Aaand that's pretty much why I discarded the idea. Far too complex for the fast and fun fencing system that I was aiming for.

Edited by Susimetsa
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1 hour ago, Susimetsa said:

When preparing my WIP for the BRP competition, I had half the mind to try to simulate the "short measure", "long measure", "out of measure" thinking of historical swordplay into the system.

Short measure = character is close enough to attack with a single movement (thrust, slash, lunge - note that these include certain amount of forward movement)

Long measure = character needs to take one step to close in before making the attack

Out of measure = character would need to take two steps or more to close the distance before attack

This would also have to take into account the arm and weapon lengths (longer arm and/or longer weapon is in "short measure" sooner than a short weapon).... Aaand that's pretty much why I discarded the idea. Far too complex for the fast and fun fencing system that I was aiming for.

If you want to have a fencing system, no need to search for such complexity: Under your definition, you are never in short measure (too difficult to attack and impossible to protect yourself), and almost always in long measure. Out of measure is perhaps 1% of the case, when doing a 'fleche' (sorry, I'm french, but even if I know the english translation for fleche is arrow, I doubt the fencing term would be that and I have no idea of what it could be).

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OK, so more detail... There is grappling range (maintaining physical contact), close range (elbows, knees), medium range (fists), long range (feet) and extreme range (requires movement to engage).

As each type/style of combat has a favored range there is a lot of maneuvering to keep the enemy in your favored range and out of their favored range. 

-STS

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15 hours ago, Kloster said:

If you want to have a fencing system, no need to search for such complexity: Under your definition, you are never in short measure (too difficult to attack and impossible to protect yourself), and almost always in long measure. Out of measure is perhaps 1% of the case, when doing a 'fleche' (sorry, I'm french, but even if I know the english translation for fleche is arrow, I doubt the fencing term would be that and I have no idea of what it could be).

Not sure about fleche - a running thrust is my best guess. A risky move, since that running momentum is difficult to stop.

On the topic of short measure, everyone has to get there if they want to hit their opponent. It is basically the moment in fencing when you have to put yourself in the risk's way to attempt to hit your enemy. So, yes, you'd mostly want to stay in long measure to try to gauge the best opportunity to strike without being counter-attacked or riposted. The complexity comes from the different weapon lengths (and why blades longer than ~3 feet were at one point banned in England) because that makes the short measure a very different distance to different combatants. Longer reach allows you to be in short measure earlier.

Finally, I decided it was too much detail and would slow down the combat too much to worry about what happens each second. But, since the important moment is the one when both combatants are in short measure (independent of who first chose to attack), I basically decided to use opposed attack rolls with modifiers.

Edited by Susimetsa
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7 hours ago, sladethesniper said:

OK, so more detail... There is grappling range (maintaining physical contact), close range (elbows, knees), medium range (fists), long range (feet) and extreme range (requires movement to engage).

As each type/style of combat has a favored range there is a lot of maneuvering to keep the enemy in your favored range and out of their favored range. 

-STS

Again, sounds like Mythras to me.

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1 hour ago, sladethesniper said:

Which edition or version? 

-STS

Which Mythras edition ?

Not the free Mythras Imperative, which doesn't have Weapon Reach.

Apart from this one, Mythras has only one edition (2 if you count RuneQuest 6) but Mongoose's Legend is 90% similar to it, especially in combat.

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