Starting My First Game

[Anlúan]

8 hours ago, Brian Duguid said:

The Kloisari (points at current avatar, although this will make no sense later if my avatar changes, and Jeff will doubtless tell us it shows the wrong kind of badger).

Do all of these tribes transform from human to animal form, or is that just Telmori? Also, do they have a hybrid form?

[g33k]

1 hour ago, Anlúan said:

Do all of these tribes transform from human to animal form, or is that just Telmori? Also, do they have a hybrid form?

With maybe a very few exceptions, all the hsunchen tribes have full-on animal forms.

Generally, "hybrid" forms are bodypart-specific, and achieved via Cult-special Rune Magic:  Claws or Horns or the like; sometimes hindquarter legs for leaping.

Add all the bodypart runespells together and you're usually still an anthropomorphic hybrid-form, but 1 more "tie it all together" spell induces a full change (game-mechanically, this is often analyzed as "inefficient" and "expensive" in terms of rune-points). 

Edited November 7, 2024 by g33k

[John Biles]

On 11/7/2024 at 2:46 PM, Anlúan said:

Do all of these tribes transform from human to animal form, or is that just Telmori? Also, do they have a hybrid form?

It is a hallmark of the Hsunchen.

However, the Telmori can't control the transformation and other groups have to do it deliberately.  The Telmori also become much harder to hurt when not human and other Hsunchen have only the normal toughness of their form.

 

[Anlúan]

Are all Hsunchen chaotic, or just Telmori? Either way, why? And why aren't Telmori targetted more often?

[John Biles]

1 hour ago, Anlúan said:

Are all Hsunchen chaotic, or just Telmori? Either way, why? And why aren't Telmori targetted more often?

Just the Telmori.

The Telmori followed Nysalor, who gave them their power of being hard to hurt in wolf fom.

But they messed with Talor, a Malkioni Hero, who proceeded to curse them with an uncontrollable change.

 

[metcalph]

4 hours ago, Anlúan said:

Are all Hsunchen chaotic, or just Telmori? Either way, why? And why aren't Telmori targetted more often?

Only the Telmori among the Hsunchen are chaotic.  As for targetting them more, people did that over the centuries, without much success.  The Telmori were part of the Kingdom of Sartar because Sartar saw beyond their curse and offered them a chance of removing their it.  Now that the Princes of Sartar are gone, the Telmori are once again on their own.

[Nick Brooke]

“Why aren’t the incredibly dangerous and hard to kill werewolf tribe who make up the personal bodyguards of the House of Sartar targeted more often?”

Gee, I dunno.

[Alex]

On 11/7/2024 at 12:10 PM, Brian Duguid said:

The Kloisari (points at current avatar, although this will make no sense later if my avatar changes, and Jeff will doubtless tell us it shows the wrong kind of badger).

Maybe, and maybe not!  Stripey's such a snazzy look doncha think?  And not all Gloranthan critters are based solely in their North American analogues -- shadowcats definitely look as much like snow leopards as they do lynx...

On 11/4/2024 at 5:15 PM, Anlúan said:

What Cult would be best for a mesmerist villain?

Not quite a cult, but a satyr (from Beast Valley) would have some applicable magic.  Add some parachute pants, a natty hat, and some Illusion magic for their subtle and cunnningg disguise...  They're sorta gasping to also be Eurmal initiates, albeit that's a plot twist from their RAW religious practices.  But if Tricksters stuck to the rules, they'd hardly be tricksters, would they now?

[Alex]

On 10/30/2024 at 11:45 PM, Anlúan said:

Aah, so Humakti cultusts within the Lunar areas would be more like... Lunar-loyal mercenaries and warriors who don't want to enlist for one reason or another, and the Lunars of other faiths may worship Humakt in the hope of sating him.

Bear in mind that "Lunar areas" is a very broad sweep!  The most familiar parts of the Empire, Provinces, allies and client -- Tarsh in particular -- are very much formerly Orlanthi (albeit a slightly different flavour of Orlanthi) kingdoms with a new ruling elite.  So Humakt's going to play many of the same roles in such places as it does in the likes of Sartar, sans maybe some of the extreme cases like the Lismelder.  Then there's Carmania where Humakt (or local equivalent) has a large role.  Dara Happa doesn't really same to have originally recognised Humakt, beyond de facto conflation with Orlanth, so ther may be some disdain from the quarter.  They're pretty good at disdain!

On 11/3/2024 at 6:36 PM, Anlúan said:

I'm just writing up what my players will be getting up to in 1625, and I was wondering. Is there a definite 'canon' timeline? I've read somewhere that Kallyr has

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a funeral in 1626~8 or something?

Indeed.  I decided after the fact that didn't entirely suit my (depraved and errant) purposes and to move that event (and the associated battle) a little later, so as to get a bit more mileage out of her as a character.  Otherwise she's liable to pop up and off again entirely off-camera, and Argrath's not exactly a drop-in replacement for her in an immediate sense for a number of reasons.  If I'd thought about that more carefully ahead of time I might just have started the game a little earlier -- though of course that has its own complications.

What I'd suggest is running a few "could really happen almost anytime" published adventures - like the Broken Tower, the GM screen pack, PP, SR, any number of excellent JC products -- interspersed if you have the spoons with some more bespoke events crafted by yourself around your PCs' own accumulated baggage and drivers, and the particulars of whatever clan/tribe/city you've selected as the main background setting.  The Big Picture stuff is more likely to be happening off-camera, or if your players are already starting to look glazed-over with infodump futureshock, perhaps glossed over entirely.  Pick your moments to foreground wider events, or better yet take your cues from your players.  "Things suck around here, I want to talk to your manager!"  "... that can be arranged..."

There's an excellent 'future timeline' here.  I'd recommend not taking it as set in stone -- as you can see from how increasingly confused and contradictory as it goes along, I don't think Chaosium do, and Greg didn't, either!  But it makes an excellent 'queue' of events to drop in as needed.

[mfbrandi]

2 hours ago, Alex said:

They’re sorta gasping to also be Eurmal initiates, albeit that’s a plot twist from their RAW religious practices.

Arachne.
Anansi.
Let’s call the whole thing off.

[Anlúan]

9 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

“Why aren’t the incredibly dangerous and hard to kill werewolf tribe who make up the personal bodyguards of the House of Sartar targeted more often?”

13 hours ago, metcalph said:

The Telmori were part of the Kingdom of Sartar because Sartar saw beyond their curse and offered them a chance of removing their it.  Now that the Princes of Sartar are gone, the Telmori are once again on their own.

I understood they were pretty powerful, I just didn't understand what tied them to be loyal to Sartar. I suppose the 1625ST situation is that Kallyr needs to prove her legitimacy to them to reinstate the old allegiance?

 

7 hours ago, Alex said:

Not quite a cult, but a satyr (from Beast Valley) would have some applicable magic.

Ooh I'll look into that. I was mostly going cult-by-cult but I didn't really thumb through the bestiary. Thank you.

On another note, I now have some rough plans for my story moving forwards, so I'm turning to read the King of Sartar. Would folks recommend any of the other 9 books in the Stafford Library?

[Joerg]

4 hours ago, Anlúan said:

I understood they were pretty powerful, I just didn't understand what tied them to be loyal to Sartar.

Sartar mediated peace between the Telmori and the Jonstown tribes (Malani, Culbrea, Cinsina, Maboder, Torkani) by giving the Telmori a replacement for their slain king in the person of Ostling Four-Wolf, a man who had all the qualifications for a Telmori high chief but had not one but four wolf companions.

There is a strong speculation that Ostling was a companion of Sartar - possibly a Jajalaring dog-Orlanthi from Saird - who was subjected to Sartar's change magic alongside his canines. It is known that Ostling was treated by Onelisin Cat-Witch when returning wounded, a visit which resulted in their son Kostajor Wolf-Champion. Kostajor eventually became king of the Telmori, and his sons served in the Telmori bodyguard, with Helkos and Goram Whitefang marrying their cousins, the daughters of Terasarin, who were assassinated by Lunars in Kethaela despite the efforts of their husbands. These Telmori marriages also included Salinarg.

These bonds of kinship were what cemented the loyalty between the Telmori and the House of Sartar, but with Kostajor's (male) lineage ending prior to 1627 and the conflicts that ended the Maboder Tribe, the bonds of loyalty were sorely tested. Kallyr was one of the few Orlanthi fighting alongside the Telmori against Jomes Wulf and his Lunar and Orlanthi forces. This should have granted her the protection of the Telmori, but Kallyr's strongest allies at Dangerford were the local tribes with their old grudges against that tribe.

Argrath's lineage from Onelisin was in no way better than Kostajor's, which made any association with the Sartar-descended Telmori a potential rivalry for the throne. Even if few Orlanthi would have respected a Telmori Prince of Sartar (other than possibly Salinarg's half-Telmori son, the leader of the Household of Death).

[John Biles]

4 hours ago, Anlúan said:

On another note, I now have some rough plans for my story moving forwards, so I'm turning to read the King of Sartar. Would folks recommend any of the other 9 books in the Stafford Library?

The Gloriious Re-Ascent of Yelm is basically solar propaganda but valuable to understand their viewpoint.

 

[Anlúan]

35 minutes ago, John Biles said:

The Gloriious Re-Ascent of Yelm is basically solar propaganda but valuable to understand their viewpoint.

Noted! I picked up:
- The Glorious Reascent of Yelm
- Arcane Lore (I know very little of Heroquests, only what King of Dragon Pass and Six Ages goes into.
- The Middle Sea Empire (Curiousity)
- Esrolia, The Land of Ten Thousand Goddesses (as two of my players are Esrolian and know little of it)

[Alex]

19 minutes ago, Anlúan said:

I understood they were pretty powerful, I just didn't understand what tied them to be loyal to Sartar. I suppose the 1625ST situation is that Kallyr needs to prove her legitimacy to them to reinstate the old allegiance?

Lighting the Flame and being acclaimed Prince surely does the latter.  I don't know if we have the fine print of their agreement with the Sartar dynasty, but I'd say it's more of a longstanding transactional arrangement and tradition than unbreakable fealty.  Mind you i seem to recall some material on them being on the Outs during the Temertain regime, so there might be some twists and turns to their general standing...

19 minutes ago, Anlúan said:

Ooh I'll look into that. I was mostly going cult-by-cult but I didn't really thumb through the bestiary. Thank you.

YW.  I just happened to be looking up the Beast People myself and that one stuck in my mind -- haven't properly ingested most of it either!

19 minutes ago, Anlúan said:

Would folks recommend any of the other 9 books in the Stafford Library?

"Yes but..." 🙂  The "Heortling" books are both good, but the most gameable and applicable stuff from it has been stripped out and gussied up already or will be if you wait a while, so not an unqualified "YOU MUST GO BUY!!!"  The Solar and Lunar books are both a little turgid for my tastes...  but then they they should be, they're Solar and Lunar books!  The Entekosiad I found to be strangely moving and immersive...  But it's pretty strange, all right.  And absurdly fragmentary.  And so far from "yes, I can see now how to turn this into Actual Play..." as to defy belief.  But maybe the best of the lot as an actual reading experience for its own sake, for me.

Oh, and then there's Arcane Lore and Revealed Mythology.  Very valuable if you plan to develop your big plans and big theories about the big picture stuff and be...  bigtime wrong about it!  Highly recommended, highly caveatedly!

[Joerg]

Personally, I found The Fortunate Succession more valuable to understand the Lunar Empire than The Glorious ReAscent of Yelm as it covers the history of Peloria prior to the Redline History (nowadays in the Sourcebook), with insights about the ancient and more recent rivalries between the Orlanthi and the Lowlanders, and what this Carmania was about.

[Anlúan]

Thank you for the advice! I'm reading through Arcane Lore at the moment and me and a friend are thoroughly interested in it.

I've been reading around to make some little write-ups for my players, and as I started reading up on Esrolia I became curious about the Red Earth, Warm Earth and Old Earth Alliances. It's only mentioned briefly in R:RiG, and I've read the sections in both the Glorantha Sourcebook and the Lands of RuneQuest: Dragon Pass books.

From what I gather, the Red Earth were pro-lunarisation? I assume this is the idea that Ernalda will wed the Red Moon, which they call Sedenya (at least, that is how someone in my other topic about favourite Cults put it)? And are they utterly gone now, or still a presence? Or, is this a YGMV/YGWV situation? (I suppose every situation is one, but you get what I mean!)

I guess from the name that the Warm Earth Alliance are Caladralanders, and the Old Earth Alliance are Esrolians who refuse lunarisation. But then why the difference? Do these two come into conflict as well?

 

[metcalph]

1 hour ago, Anlúan said:

From what I gather, the Red Earth were pro-lunarisation? I assume this is the idea that Ernalda will wed the Red Moon, which they call Sedenya (at least, that is how someone in my other topic about favourite Cults put it)? And are they utterly gone now, or still a presence? Or, is this a YGMV/YGWV situation? (I suppose every situation is one, but you get what I mean!)

There are still Lunars in Esrolia (CoR:Mythology) gives them 1% of the population which is a lot for Esrolia.

 

 

[g33k]

2 hours ago, Anlúan said:

Thank you for the advice! I'm reading through Arcane Lore at the moment and me and a friend are thoroughly interested in it.

I've been reading around to make some little write-ups for my players, and as I started reading up on Esrolia I became curious about the Red Earth, Warm Earth and Old Earth Alliances. It's only mentioned briefly in R:RiG, and I've read the sections in both the Glorantha Sourcebook and the Lands of RuneQuest: Dragon Pass books.

From what I gather, the Red Earth were pro-lunarisation? I assume this is the idea that Ernalda will wed the Red Moon, which they call Sedenya (at least, that is how someone in my other topic about favourite Cults put it)? And are they utterly gone now, or still a presence? Or, is this a YGMV/YGWV situation? (I suppose every situation is one, but you get what I mean!)

I guess from the name that the Warm Earth Alliance are Caladralanders, and the Old Earth Alliance are Esrolians who refuse lunarisation. But then why the difference? Do these two come into conflict as well?

 

The Esrolian Grandmothers & their Houses are in a constant state of tension & rivalry, sometimes outright enmity.
These "Alliances" are just the current iteration of that ongoing politicking.

I expect the loss of Belintar turned a  longstanding simmer back up to a boil.

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Anlúan said:

I've been reading around to make some little write-ups for my players, and as I started reading up on Esrolia I became curious about the Red Earth, Warm Earth and Old Earth Alliances. It's only mentioned briefly in R:RiG, and I've read the sections in both the Glorantha Sourcebook and the Lands of RuneQuest: Dragon Pass books.

You might then be interested in my Nochet books: Nochet: Queen of Cities and Nochet: Adventurer's Guide as I do talk some about the alliances in those.

2 hours ago, Anlúan said:

From what I gather, the Red Earth were pro-lunarisation? I assume this is the idea that Ernalda will wed the Red Moon, which they call Sedenya (at least, that is how someone in my other topic about favourite Cults put it)? And are they utterly gone now, or still a presence? Or, is this a YGMV/YGWV situation? (I suppose every situation is one, but you get what I mean!)

They are anti-Western Barbarian at the core. As many of those Houses held land in South Esrolia, they were most threatened by the raids and invasions of the Manirian warlord Greymane. To that end, they increasingly turned to the Lunar Empire for aid and advice.

Did they have plans to marry Ernalda into the Red Goddess' cult? No, I don't believe so. Did they see opportunity and aid in perhaps having Queen Hendira marry a Lunar noble? Quite possibly, though if so it never came to fruition.

The Lunar Empire had missionaries in Esrolia from the early 1590s, and established an enclave of traders in Nochet in the Moontown neighborhood. This was central to the Empire - building an effective caravan trade between the Holy Country and the Empire. You can envision the conquest of Sartar as gaining control of the key trade roads between the two.

After Samastina seized power in Nochet in late 1622 and Hendira fled, the Lunars sent an expedition to retake Nochet for Hendira. The siege lasted a year, but ultimately the Lunars could not control the sea or keep supplies and reinforcements from entering the city. When the Wolf Pirates returned, the Lunars lifted the siege. The subsequent Battle of Pennel Ford was a decisive defeat for the Lunar Empire. Hendira was killed, as were many of her allies, and the Red Earth Alliance came to an end.

As of 1625, there is minimal Lunar presence in Nochet (and hence Esrolia), although Samastina does have a former Lunar sorcerer as advisor. But Samastina is quite anti-Lunar otherwise and sees them as a thread.

2 hours ago, Anlúan said:

I guess from the name that the Warm Earth Alliance are Caladralanders, and the Old Earth Alliance are Esrolians who refuse lunarisation. But then why the difference? Do these two come into conflict as well?

The Warm Earth Alliance is led by the Demivierge of Rhigos and the Warlord of Porthomeka (he's a Lodril worshiper). It's basically Esrolians supported by some Caladralanders. Their focus is more towards rebuilding trade (both land and sea).

The Old Earth Alliance is led by Samastina and has most adherents in northern Esrolia. Their focus is towards Dragon Pass and trade in that direction. They have a greater affinity towards the Orlanth cult and "older" alliances. Some are staunchly anti-Lunar. 

When Samastina came to power in Nochet, she became Queen of Nochet. She could not convince the priestesses of the Earth Temple at Ezel to raise her to Queen of Esrolia though. So there is no current Queen over all the land. Instead, Samastina dominates north Esrolia and Nochet while the Demivierge dominates Rhigos and southern Esrolia. There are a few other queens of lesser influence (such as the Queen of Brol). 

There is no active conflict as of 1625, but definitely a jockeying of position for power. Samastina's main ally, Broyan of Heortland is killed is Fireseason 1625 and then the Dragonrise occurs. So Samastina is now looking for other possible allies.

31 minutes ago, g33k said:

The Esrolian Grandmothers & their Houses are in a constant state of tension & rivalry, sometimes outright enmity.
These "Alliances" are just the current iteration of that ongoing politicking.

Very much so. 

There are 200 noble Houses in Esrolia, only 20 of which are in Nochet and fewer in Rhigos. If you think of them as a cross between mafia & Bedouin families regularly shifting alliance to gain some advantage over others, then you pretty much have Esrolian politics.

[Alex]

8 hours ago, Anlúan said:

From what I gather, the Red Earth were pro-lunarisation? I assume this is the idea that Ernalda will wed the Red Moon, which they call Sedenya (at least, that is how someone in my other topic about favourite Cults put it)?

Gasp, the LBGT+ Agenda!  😄  I'd say the normcore version of this idea is to add various Lunar cults as Husband-Protectors.  Yanafil, Shargash, as well as Yelm and Lodril which will be long-standing things anyway, depending on whom you ask and what forms you're looking for.  Not so much for the sake of heteronormatively as because those all have 'normal' theist cults.  You put a shrine to one (or more) of them in your Great Temple, job done.  (Or project started at least, these things can always be done at shallower and deeper levels.)  And I'm fairly sure that that occurred in places, and won't have been un-occurred in all if any of them.

8 hours ago, Anlúan said:

And are they utterly gone now, or still a presence? Or, is this a YGMV/YGWV situation? (I suppose every situation is one, but you get what I mean!)

Militarily gone, but not every last person with Notions in their head.  No Empire, just some remaining Way, as it were.  That's even true in Sartar indeed, where the Occupation was a much bigger and thornier deal.

8 hours ago, Anlúan said:

But then why the difference? Do these two come into conflict as well?

And more.  People gonna people.  Another trope is how they feel about their northern neighbours.  There's a longstanding 'pesky Vingkotlings!' attitude that long predates any concern regarding -- and indeed the existence of -- the Lunars.  That tends to effect their attitudes to Hendrikiland a great deal, but might also bleed through in their feelings about Sartarites.  In either direction, potentially.  "They're all the bleedin' same"/"well at least they're not--"/"a bulwark against".

[mfbrandi]

4 hours ago, Alex said:

I’d say the normcore version of this idea is to add various Lunar cults as Husband-Protectors.

Against heteronormativity:

• Do the Esrolians consider the “husband-protectors”° to be in charge, or are they serious about matriarchy — and as below, so above?
• Assuming the Esrolians to be serious about matriarchy and symbolism, the danger for the Lunars would be that marrying a Lunar boy god to the Earth would look like they were saying that the Esrolians had the upper hand in the (hypothetical) alliance, which they wouldn’t want to concede.
• The Lunars would have to hide the Red Emperor under his mother’s skirts as something of an embarrassment. Or perhaps they could argue “he” was a drag king (the flip of the Orlanthi claim about Vinga) as a joke on or sop to the patriarchal Dara Happans.

But — trying on a contrary position — if the Lunar Empire really is a boys’ club marching under a convenient goddess–flag, it could go either way:

• At least we are not marrying your goddess to a Lunar boy god — we are in charge, but we are not adding insult to injury by subordinating your goddess to a mere male.
• We are in charge and don’t you forget it — this is not a husband-protector, this is your boss … and not even our top boy. (Yuck!)

Of course, none of these things will come to pass.

———————————————————
° I always want to call them “protractors”.

[jajagappa]

8 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

Do the Esrolians consider the “husband-protectors”° to be in charge, or are they serious about matriarchy — and as below, so above?

Generally no. The last set of "ruling" husband-protectors were thrown out at the end of the Adjustment Wars ~500 years ago, and the Grandmothers' Council with the Queen of Esrolia took control again.

With Belintar's arrival, he appears to have further encouraged the alignment and concentration of Earth powers and rule, and probably served as one of the Husband-Protector stand-ins (thus minimizing the need for other husband-protectors).

Until Belintar's demise, these is no need (and I suspect Belintar would have strongly discouraged) for a marriage to a Lunar husband-protector. 

Between 1616 and 1622 there is a brief interlude where Hendira considered stronger Lunar ties (e.g. marriage alliance), particularly following Greymane's Great Raid of 1618 and then 1619-20 when the Lunars took Karse. 

You don't need to marry the deities, though, for a marriage alliance. It's feasible Hendira looked to a possible marriage with Fazzur or Pharandros of Tarsh, but if so they never came to fruition. 

 

[g33k]

 

👇  Very much THIS ! 👇

14 hours ago, jajagappa said:

You might then be interested in my Nochet books: Nochet: Queen of Cities and Nochet: Adventurer's Guide as I do talk some about the alliances in those.

And  👆this👆,  too !    😁

I consider these books mandatory for a Nochet and/or Esrolia campaign (unless you have a very-clear YGWV vision of your own); and at least very-strongly-recommended  even if you are Varying.

But also recommended if doing a broader "Holy Country" campaign, and/or if you have specific PC(s) from Nochet/Esrolia.

 

[Anlúan]

2 hours ago, g33k said:

👇  Very much THIS ! 👇

16 hours ago, jajagappa said:

You might then be interested in my Nochet books: Nochet: Queen of Cities and Nochet: Adventurer's Guide as I do talk some about the alliances in those.

And  👆this👆,  too !    😁

I consider these books mandatory for a Nochet and/or Esrolia campaign (unless you have a very-clear YGWV vision of your own); and at least very-strongly-recommended  even if you are Varying.

Oh I do intend to get these if my group is coming down from Alda-Chur to Esrolia! But at the moment I am just trying to get my bearings on the basics those characters will know.