Creating Pentan NPCs

[Peter Hart]

In the context of creating stats for some Pentan NPCs, I'm wondering in what ways would these differ from Grazelanders? [There is a statblock for a typical Grazeland Pony Breeder on p129 of Lands of Runequest - Dragon Pass, for example.] 

In particular the Pentans who in 1624 "raided the outskirts of Raibanth, and deep into Imther and Holay." (The Glorantha Sourcebook p189).

See also Jeff's post on Dranz Goloi and the Voor-ash https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/dranz-goloi-and-the-voor-ash/

As per Jeff's post "many worship new Storm Gods", so we'd have the sun worshippers worshipping Kargzant and Storm worshippers worshipping an Orlanth-like Storm God.

I've been looking at the Scythians for real world inspiration in particular:-

* https://www.britannica.com/topic/Scythian

* https://www.britishmuseum.org/blog/introducing-scythians

thanks

[Techpriest]

Use the Grazelanders as a baseline. As for cult skills, take the Yelmalio cult, swap out one of the starter skills for Ride (Horse), as this is Kargzant, not the lowlander farmer version of him. Scythians are a major inspiration for both the Grazelanders and the Pentans. Grazelanders and the Pentans speak a probably somewhat mutually intelligible language, think Old Norse splitting into Norwegian/Swedish/Danish/Icelandic, so handwave that with they are mutually intelligible. Remember, the Pentans are not entirely the same as the Grazelanders - the Grazers are Pure Horse People, most Pentans are NOT Pure Horse People. They'll not mind buying a cow or being part of a cattle drive.

As for Worshiping an 'Orlanth like god' they are worshiping Orlanth, 100%. Their Sword Skill is Kopis, their Orate/Dance is likely replaced by Ride (as again, horse nomads), and they're almost certainly worshipping Orlanth Adventurous, rather than Thunderous. The general cult write ups can be modified by region, and should be in some cases like this to better reflect regional differences. I'm not expecting the worshipers of Kargzant to be able to use a shield and a pike together, even though Yelmalio is the same god. 

[radmonger]

For Pent, I like https://cohost.org/MorsRattus?page=0.

It treats almost all cults as subcults/reskins of the usual suspects, while adding in a ton of local details and cultural perspective. Clearly written by somone who 'gets' Glorantha

 

[Peter Hart]

1 hour ago, Techpriest said:

Use the Grazelanders as a baseline. As for cult skills, take the Yelmalio cult, swap out one of the starter skills for Ride (Horse), as this is Kargzant, not the lowlander farmer version of him. Scythians are a major inspiration for both the Grazelanders and the Pentans. Grazelanders and the Pentans speak a probably somewhat mutually intelligible language, think Old Norse splitting into Norwegian/Swedish/Danish/Icelandic, so handwave that with they are mutually intelligible. Remember, the Pentans are not entirely the same as the Grazelanders - the Grazers are Pure Horse People, most Pentans are NOT Pure Horse People. They'll not mind buying a cow or being part of a cattle drive.

As for Worshiping an 'Orlanth like god' they are worshiping Orlanth, 100%. Their Sword Skill is Kopis, their Orate/Dance is likely replaced by Ride (as again, horse nomads), and they're almost certainly worshipping Orlanth Adventurous, rather than Thunderous. The general cult write ups can be modified by region, and should be in some cases like this to better reflect regional differences. I'm not expecting the worshipers of Kargzant to be able to use a shield and a pike together, even though Yelmalio is the same god. 

Thanks!

[Peter Hart]

1 hour ago, radmonger said:

For Pent, I like https://cohost.org/MorsRattus?page=0.

It treats almost all cults as subcults/reskins of the usual suspects, while adding in a ton of local details and cultural perspective. Clearly written by somone who 'gets' Glorantha

 

Cheers. Useful site.

[Peter Hart]

The Guide to Glorantha (p364) entry on Pentan religion also quite detailed.

"Solar tribes worship Kargzant, Golden Bow, Hippoi the Horse Goddess, Pole Star, and tribal ancestors and spirits.

Storm tribes worship West King Wind (Orlanth), North War Wind (Humakt), South Rage Wind (Storm Bull), East Sting Wind (Gagarth), Hippoi, and tribal spirits and ancestors." 

[davecake]

Most Pentans are traditional Solar worshippers, but not Pure Horse Tribe. You can more or less treat them as Grazers for most purposes. 

For Kargzant worshippers, which is the primary mans god for most Pentans, as other have said it is basically Yelmalio, but they are riders and replace Pike etc with Lance throughout, and they have very little interest in anything you can't do on horseback, so no infantry spearmen etc. . They do not have Gifts and Geases (which is a bit sad, as that is the coolest part of Yelmalio, but makes sense historically).

Yu-Kargzant/Yelm is not directly joinable by most Pentans, as you still have to be a direct descendant of Yelm/The Pure Horse Tribe, but is a strongly associated god with Kargzant - they get Shield from that, and many priests may have Sunspear. They are also associated with Polaris (who provides the spell Arrow of Light, found in RBoM) and with Healer who grants Command Horse. Instead of being associated with Ernalda and getting Bless Crops, they are associated with Dendara and gain something else - maybe Bless Yurt, which is just like Bless Home (so +1hp when within) only works on Pentan nomad yurt. Or maybe Dendara gives them Heal Body, because they are unlikely to get it from Aldrya. In any case they call Dendara La-Ungariant (the Grazers use the same name to refer to Ernalda). 

If you want to make them tougher, you could always let them have the bow god (who grants Sureshot) or the spear god (who grants True Spear) as associates too. 

I think they may all get Kuchile Horse Archery automatically, if you can find a way to make Kuschile Archery useful for people who are already really great riders. Or maybe they don't, because in its current rules form it is completely useless to anyone whose ride skill is higher than their bow skill (and only marginally useful otherwise). In any case they mostly fight as skilled light cavalry, able to control their horses with their feet while firing a bow, and often charge to bow range, loose a volley of arrows, and turn and run, all very quickly. But some of them can manage a pretty good lance charge. 

The women may worship La-Ungariant, but more often the local version of Eiritha - they herd mostly cattle (except among the Pure Horse People). She is counted as a daughter of La-Ungariant in Pent. 

They also have a lot of Ancestor Worship - their shamans will mostly be ancestor worshippers. Two common spirit cults are the Evening Star, who grants the spell Vesper, and the Morning Star, who grants the spell Aurora, both of which are area effect combat magic that is a nice encounter enhancer. Oakfed is also pretty likely. 

Their Trickster figure is Raven, who can be worshipped as a spirit cult granting Invisibility, or as the Trickster (in which case they are likely  a tribal outcast, but can collect more trickster spells from shrines about the place as normal Eurmal types). 

Edited November 11 by davecake

[davecake]

Those Pentans that are Pure Horse Tribe will herd and eat only horses, and are even more like Grazers (because the Grazers are descended from them). Most men worship Yu-Kargzant, most women worship Dendara as La-Ungariant. Most shamans are Golden Bow shamans, though Ancestor worship is still common. 

Other than that, as above, and they may still have associated contact with Polaris and Hyalor. 

[davecake]

On 11/2/2024 at 6:52 AM, Techpriest said:

As for Worshiping an 'Orlanth like god' they are worshiping Orlanth, 100%. Their Sword Skill is Kopis, their Orate/Dance is likely replaced by Ride (as again, horse nomads), and they're almost certainly worshipping Orlanth Adventurous, rather than Thunderous.

Well, I think it is still important for them to Orate and Dance. Nomads like to have fun, Sing is magically useful, and Orate is good for leaders. Ride is a cultural skill for them, like the Grazers, so that is +35% anyway and if they are also Cavalry Warriors that is another +35%, they really don't need even more stolen from their cult skills. And yes, Orlanth Adventurous (and no Thunderous or Rex I think). 

Other options are Storm Bull, Humakt, or Gagarth. I think worshippers of those are still almost all cavalry, though with more heavy cavalry than standard solar tribes, and happy to mix javelins into the mix. They don't to be rulers like the Orlanthi, but otherwise all are respected as warrior cults. Gagarth are not regarded as outlaws I think, just scouts and outriders and outside the tribal hierarchy somewhat? 

I think Eiritha is still the main women's goddess, herding cattle. 

Most of their shamans will still be ancestor worshippers, but they might get access to Air elementals through their equivalent of Kolat as well? And similar air spirits to Prax - in particular Inora, who grants Snow. 

Generally speaking, though, any shaman of any Pentan tribe will have access to a whole host of unusual spirit cults if they need them, maybe associated with particular places, or different animals, or tribal ancestors, and certainly storm and solar tribal shamans can potentially access the spirits most associated with the others. 

 

Edited November 11 by davecake

[davecake]

If you really want any of them to be able to wield any of the magic of Sheng Seleris, a quick and dirty way to simulate the worship of Shengs god Jolaty is to give them Gifts and Geases, except most of the Geases will be along the lines of very strict maintenance of a nomad lifestyle, like the Golden Bow taboos. Select some of your favourites from Yelmalio, Humakt, and Yanafals Tarnils gifts as appropriate. Maybe some shamanic abilities gainable the same way.

[Techpriest]

1 hour ago, davecake said:

 

For Kargzant worshippers, which is the primary mans god for most Pentans, as other have said it is basically Yelmalio, but they are riders and replace Pike etc with Lance throughout, and they have very little interest in anything you can't do on horseback, so no infantry spearmen etc. . They do not have Gifts and Geases (which is a bit sad, as that is the coolest part of Yelmalio, but makes sense historically).

I would say they do have access to gifts and geases. There’s no indication that they would not have them. Kargzant is the same god, just with different cultic associations, rites, and traditions. 

[metcalph]

IMO Yu-Kargzant is not worshipped in Pent or the Char-un ever since the Pure Horse Tribe left.  Most Pentans would worship plain Kargzant while a few would worship Yelm from the Dara Happa on Horseback toadies.

[davecake]

21 hours ago, Techpriest said:

I would say they do have access to gifts and geases. There’s no indication that they would not have them.

1) in the draft version of the cults books I have, Kargzant does not have gifts and geases. It is certainly possible that Jeff has changed it since then, but if he hasn't neither Elmal or Kargzant will have gifts or geases when Gods of Light comes out. I have extrapolated by adding some other info in what I said, but what I said about Kargzant as a cult is directly from that. 

2) IMO, historically Gifts or Geases enter cult practices with the Daysenarus/ Nysalor era, after the Kargzant cult and Yelmalio have diverged. But YMMV. 

15 hours ago, metcalph said:

IMO Yu-Kargzant is not worshipped in Pent or the Char-un ever since the Pure Horse Tribe left.

My understanding is from the Guide - in the modern era, one of the Ten Tribes, the Julin Marsk, are Pure Horse People. 7 tribes are Solar (Kargzant), and 2 Storm. If you have a different understanding of that, please explain it, thanks. 

[Alex]

23 hours ago, Techpriest said:

I would say they do have access to gifts and geases.

By way of playing Karallan and following the Obvious Compromise, perhaps they 'have access' in the sense that a subcult or heropath might give them gifts and geases, as opposed to it being a standard initiatory practice?

[David Scott]

On 11/1/2024 at 10:24 PM, Peter Hart said:

In the context of creating stats for some Pentan NPCs, I'm wondering in what ways would these differ from Grazelanders? [There is a statblock for a typical Grazeland Pony Breeder on p129 of Lands of Runequest - Dragon Pass, for example.] 

There's effectively three versions of the stat block you could make, but you'll need to change Devotion (Feathered Horse Queen), Loyalty (Luminous Stallion King), Customs (Grazeland Pony Breeders), Homeland Lore (Grazelands) to something Pent related.

Keeping it simple

• Solar - Pentan with Yelmic father - except as above, keep the same.
• Solar - Pentan with non-Yelmic father, except as above, change:
  • Initiate of Yelm/Yu-Kargzant -> Initiate of Yelmalio/Kargzant
  • Cults: Yelm -> Yelmalio
  • Rune spells, replace Sureshot and replace with Arrow of Light
  • Skills: Cult Lore (Yelm) -> Cult Lore (Yelmalio), Worship (Yelm) -> Worship (Yelmalio)
• Storm Pentan: except as above, change:
  • Initiate of Yelm/Yu-Kargzant -> Initiate of West King Wind/Orlanth Adventurous
  • Runes: Fire/Sky 80%. -> Air 80%
  • Cults: Yelm -> Orlanth Adventurous
  • Rune spells, replace Command Horse 2, and Sureshot 1 with Lightning 1+
  • Spirit Magic, replace Farsee 2, Light (1), with Bladesharp 2, Disruption (1)
  • Skills: Cult Lore (Yelm) -> Cult Lore (Orlanth), Worship (Yelm) -> Worship (Orlanth)

These are just simple substitutions to make the template playable. Yelmalio will make more sense when the solar book is out. The Storm Pentan worships West King Wind as the others are more specialist (Humakt, Storm Bull and Gagarth). If you think North War Wind (Humakt) would be better, use the Typical Vendref Bodyguard and add ride.

I realise there will always be other opinions on this, but this is just using the same template and keeping it simple.

Edited November 14 by David Scott
removed light rune

[Alex]

25 minutes ago, David Scott said:

• Initiate of Yelm/Yu-Kargzant -> Initiate of Yelmalio/Yu-Kargzant

Initiate of Yelm/Yu-Kargzant -> Initiate of Yelmalio/Kargzant?

[David Scott]

4 minutes ago, Alex said:

Initiate of Yelm/Yu-Kargzant -> Initiate of Yelmalio/Kargzant?

correct, changed

[Peter Hart]

Thanks to everyone for all of the comments. That is really useful and has a) given me a firm foundation of the Pentans and b) given me a ton of inspiration.

[Peter Hart]

On 11/11/2024 at 11:28 AM, davecake said:

Well, I think it is still important for them to Orate and Dance. Nomads like to have fun, Sing is magically useful, and Orate is good for leaders. Ride is a cultural skill for them, like the Grazers, so that is +35% anyway and if they are also Cavalry Warriors that is another +35%, they really don't need even more stolen from their cult skills. And yes, Orlanth Adventurous (and no Thunderous or Rex I think). 

Other options are Storm Bull, Humakt, or Gagarth. I think worshippers of those are still almost all cavalry, though with more heavy cavalry than standard solar tribes, and happy to mix javelins into the mix. They don't to be rulers like the Orlanthi, but otherwise all are respected as warrior cults. Gagarth are not regarded as outlaws I think, just scouts and outriders and outside the tribal hierarchy somewhat? 

I think Eiritha is still the main women's goddess, herding cattle. 

Most of their shamans will still be ancestor worshippers, but they might get access to Air elementals through their equivalent of Kolat as well? And similar air spirits to Prax - in particular Inora, who grants Snow. 

Generally speaking, though, any shaman of any Pentan tribe will have access to a whole host of unusual spirit cults if they need them, maybe associated with particular places, or different animals, or tribal ancestors, and certainly storm and solar tribal shamans can potentially access the spirits most associated with the others. 

 

Great observations. I think I will definitely try to create a few spirit cults.

[Peter Hart]

21 hours ago, David Scott said:

There's effectively three versions of the stat block you could make, but you'll need to change Devotion (Feathered Horse Queen), Loyalty (Luminous Stallion King), Customs (Grazeland Pony Breeders), Homeland Lore (Grazelands) to something Pent related.

Keeping it simple

• Solar - Pentan with Yelmic father - except as above, keep the same.
• Solar - Pentan with non-Yelmic father, except as above, change:
  • Initiate of Yelm/Yu-Kargzant -> Initiate of Yelmalio/Kargzant
  • Runes: Fire/Sky 80%. -> Light 80%
  • Cults: Yelm -> Yelmalio
  • Rune spells, replace Sureshot and replace with Arrow of Light
  • Skills: Cult Lore (Yelm) -> Cult Lore (Yelmalio), Worship (Yelm) -> Worship (Yelmalio)
• Storm Pentan: except as above, change:
  • Initiate of Yelm/Yu-Kargzant -> Initiate of West King Wind/Orlanth Adventurous
  • Runes: Fire/Sky 80%. -> Air 80%
  • Cults: Yelm -> Orlanth Adventurous
  • Rune spells, replace Command Horse 2, and Sureshot 1 with Lightning 1+
  • Spirit Magic, replace Farsee 2, Light (1), with Bladesharp 2, Disruption (1)
  • Skills: Cult Lore (Yelm) -> Cult Lore (Orlanth), Worship (Yelm) -> Worship (Orlanth)

These are just simple substitutions to make the template playable. Yelmalio will make more sense when the solar book is out. The Storm Pentan worships West King Wind as the others are more specialist (Humakt, Storm Bull and Gagarth). If you think North War Wind (Humakt) would be better, use the Typical Vendref Bodyguard and add ride.

I realise there will always be other opinions on this, but this is just using the same template and keeping it simple.

Thanks - that is very comprehensive. Appreciated!

[Peter Hart]

On 11/11/2024 at 10:59 AM, davecake said:

Most Pentans are traditional Solar worshippers, but not Pure Horse Tribe. You can more or less treat them as Grazers for most purposes. 

For Kargzant worshippers, which is the primary mans god for most Pentans, as other have said it is basically Yelmalio, but they are riders and replace Pike etc with Lance throughout, and they have very little interest in anything you can't do on horseback, so no infantry spearmen etc. . They do not have Gifts and Geases (which is a bit sad, as that is the coolest part of Yelmalio, but makes sense historically).

Yu-Kargzant/Yelm is not directly joinable by most Pentans, as you still have to be a direct descendant of Yelm/The Pure Horse Tribe, but is a strongly associated god with Kargzant - they get Shield from that, and many priests may have Sunspear. They are also associated with Polaris (who provides the spell Arrow of Light, found in RBoM) and with Healer who grants Command Horse. Instead of being associated with Ernalda and getting Bless Crops, they are associated with Dendara and gain something else - maybe Bless Yurt, which is just like Bless Home (so +1hp when within) only works on Pentan nomad yurt. Or maybe Dendara gives them Heal Body, because they are unlikely to get it from Aldrya. In any case they call Dendara La-Ungariant (the Grazers use the same name to refer to Ernalda). 

If you want to make them tougher, you could always let them have the bow god (who grants Sureshot) or the spear god (who grants True Spear) as associates too. 

I think they may all get Kuchile Horse Archery automatically, if you can find a way to make Kuschile Archery useful for people who are already really great riders. Or maybe they don't, because in its current rules form it is completely useless to anyone whose ride skill is higher than their bow skill (and only marginally useful otherwise). In any case they mostly fight as skilled light cavalry, able to control their horses with their feet while firing a bow, and often charge to bow range, loose a volley of arrows, and turn and run, all very quickly. But some of them can manage a pretty good lance charge. 

The women may worship La-Ungariant, but more often the local version of Eiritha - they herd mostly cattle (except among the Pure Horse People). She is counted as a daughter of La-Ungariant in Pent. 

They also have a lot of Ancestor Worship - their shamans will mostly be ancestor worshippers. Two common spirit cults are the Evening Star, who grants the spell Vesper, and the Morning Star, who grants the spell Aurora, both of which are area effect combat magic that is a nice encounter enhancer. Oakfed is also pretty likely. 

Their Trickster figure is Raven, who can be worshipped as a spirit cult granting Invisibility, or as the Trickster (in which case they are likely  a tribal outcast, but can collect more trickster spells from shrines about the place as normal Eurmal types). 

Thanks for this. Just what I needed!

[davecake]

On 11/12/2024 at 10:03 PM, David Scott said:

Runes: Fire/Sky 80%. -> Light 80%

The sub-runes are properties of the Cult, not the character, so should still be listed on the character sheet as Fire/Sky. Though Kargzant supplies only Light magic, and has the same restrictions on Fire spells as Yelmalio, if they legitimately (or even illegitimately if they get away with it - Illumination, etc) obtain Fire magic they still use the Rune at full value. The very relevant example here is Sunspear, which is a Fire spell granted to some Yelmalio and/or Kargzant worshippers by Yelm/Yu-Kargzant, but there are a lot of others. Yelmalio/Kargzant does not, for example, practically interfere with joining the Lowfires (either as a full cult or a spirit cult), or using any of their magic, and this is probably a fairly common and practical thing in the Pentan wastes, campfires being pretty much essential to survival day to day (and they are not forbidden to learn Ignite, only Fireblade and FireArrow), Gustbran still being the metalworking god, and Oakfed probably still a reasonably common spirit cult, though not quite was prominent as in Prax (Cremate Dead is probably a preferred funeral method?). 

One practical difference that will be noticed very early in combat encounters with Kargzant solar worshippers and You-Kargzant Pure Horse People is that the latter are likely to make a fair bit of use of FireArrow, and probably FireBlade on their lances too. 

[David Scott]

4 hours ago, davecake said:

The sub-runes are properties of the Cult, not the character, so should still be listed on the character sheet as Fire/Sky.

Corrected.

[Joerg]

4 hours ago, davecake said:

Gustbran still being the metalworking god

How much metalworking would the Pentans have, though?

Sure, they have access to a vast area of Godtime conflicts, with godbones likely to be found, but do they have native metalworking or do they rely on outsider trading and raiding for their stuff? The Praxians are practically neolithic (given their pastoral lifestyle), but trade for metals.

[Techpriest]

6 hours ago, Joerg said:

How much metalworking would the Pentans have, though?

Sure, they have access to a vast area of Godtime conflicts, with godbones likely to be found, but do they have native metalworking or do they rely on outsider trading and raiding for their stuff? The Praxians are practically neolithic (given their pastoral lifestyle), but trade for metals.

Historically, steppe peoples like the Scythians were more than capable of doing their own forging and metal working - Scythian gold work was very high quality. Just because they're steppe nomads doesn't mean they won't stay in an area for a while and mine easy to access resources, set up temporary forges, and so on. The amount of metal needed if they don't go heavy on the metal armor isn't actually that much. What do you need to work metal? A fire, tools, an anvil. A rock can be a decent enough anvil and the rest of the tools are movable by wagon easily enough. Remember, there's a whole god of the Solar pantheon dedicated to wagons, Lokarnos. He's also a trader god. 

As another note, the kopis was adopted by the Lunars partly because the Pentans were already using them - the Pentans have their own style of the weapon, which to me says that the Pentans are more than capable metal workers on their own.