Questions about Dodge vs Agility and also heavier armors affecting Weapon skills in combat?

[Brent Chumley]

Dodge Skill is listed as a Physical Skill in the new BRP book, but is listed as a Combat Skill on the new character sheets in the book. Can someone clarify when to use Dodge vs Agility rolls? Also does heavier armor affect either Agility rolls or Dodge skill checks? Also do heavier armors also affect Weapon Skills in combat?

[AndreJarosch]

Dodge is a Physical Skill, and it is only listed in the Combat Skill list, because it is mostly used in combat situations. IMHO it is listed there only as a convinience for the players. 

Agility is used when no appropriate skill exists. Since Dodge exists, you don´t use Agility in that situation. (see BRP p. 19)

Heavier armor effects Agility, Manipulation, Stealth, Dodge and Weapon skills, for every point you carry over your maximum ENC (see BRP p. 118). 

 

[Brent Chumley]

Then why does Dodge (if listed under the Combat category) have its own Skill bonus (and Skill bonus category)? That means I might have a +9 to Combat skills but a +10 to Physical skills...so which do I use?

[AndreJarosch]

1 hour ago, Brent Chumley said:

Then why does Dodge (if listed under the Combat category) have its own Skill bonus (and Skill bonus category)? That means I might have a +9 to Combat skills but a +10 to Physical skills...so which do I use?

The skill list (on BRP page 36) lists Dodge under "Physical". 
The text for Dodge (BRP page 40) says: "Category: Physical"

So i use Physical, and not Combat for Skill Bonus Category. 

[Atgxtg]

1 hour ago, Brent Chumley said:

Then why does Dodge (if listed under the Combat category) have its own Skill bonus (and Skill bonus category)?

Because it's considered to be especially relevant for that particular skill. It's similar to how ENC affects swim more severly than it does climbing. Someone can probably climb a tree while carrying 50 kg in a  backpack pack, but they probably can't swim.

1 hour ago, Brent Chumley said:

 

That means I might have a +9 to Combat skills but a +10 to Physical skills...so which do I use?

Yes, you would use the +10 Physical for Dodge as it is considered a Physical Skill, not a Combat skill. Yes, I know you generally use Dodge in Combat, but there is a reason why it's not a Combat skill. It's strange, but it happens.

The reason why this is a bit muddled is because, like with almost everything else in BRP, you have new rules interacting with legacy rules. And over time, as more changes were made to the game system we ended up with remnants of old rules or changes to rules that don't seem to make sense, due to other rule changes. It also doesn't help that BRP now give two different ways to determine skill category modifiers (page 22 vs page 23) which can give very different results. 

Previous BRP games had an Attack category and a Parry category for weapon skills, which were the same as the Manipulation and Agility (now Physical) categories. Hitting someone with a weapon would use Attack, and Parrying with a weapon would use Parry. Nice and simple. Attack used tehe same formula as Manipultion and PArry used the same formula as Agility. Dodge, when it was introduced (replacing Defense) was added under Agility skills (now Physical Skills). Since Agility used the same formula as Parry, there didn't used to be a difference in the bonus used. But newer BRP games have combined Attack & Parry into one category, Combat, and this has caused some trouble with Dodge, since it is a Agility/Phsycial skill, but one that is almost entirely used during combat, but isn't a "Combat" skill. It also changed how weapon parrying works a little, since Parry has been combined with attack and now uses the Combat category modifier.

 

So if Dodge not being a COmbat skill doesn't make sense to you, that is probably why. 

 

BTW, This is one of the things I don't like about combining attack & parry into one skill. 

 

 

 

[Brent Chumley]

Ok, so then do negative skill modifiers due to heavier armor apply to Dodge and Weapon/Shield/Brawl/Grapple/Martial Arts skills?

[Atgxtg]

1 hour ago, Brent Chumley said:

Ok, so then do negative skill modifiers due to heavier armor apply to Dodge and Weapon/Shield/Brawl/Grapple/Martial Arts skills?

Possibly. 

Before looking at the rules again, I'd personally apply heavy armor modifiers to dodge, but would be relucatant to apply them to COmbat skills. Mainly because after wearing armor I can say that it doesn't really impair your movements all that much. I could run just as fast in armor as I could without it. Just not for as long. Nor did I stop quite a quickly. Where armor gets you is that it does tired out out and it tends to shift your center of balance. You sweat a lot too. Oh, and you sink like a stone in water. 

Looking at the rules, the Encumbrance rules (and there is another thread on those, but that's another can of worms) and/or fatigue points should cover most of it.

The thing to keep in mind is that if people were not better off in the armor they wouldn't have worn it.  If knights in armor were slow and clumsy then they would be defeated by lighter armored foes, and that usually wasn't the case. 

[Dangermouse]

Can someone move this to the main BRP discussion section, rather than the VTT area please?