Glorantha Fiction?

[svensson]

Has Chaosium considered commissioning fiction set in Hero Wars Glorantha?

Not epic 'Gilgamesh' or 'Beowulf' style retrospectives or myth retellings [like King of Sartar or Glourious Reassent of Yelm] but adventure tales with a 'here and now' setting. Yes, the first five books I'm thinking of are d20 milieaux but many IPs have a strong fiction arm on the product.

The idea is to provide an example of heroes and villains that readers can relate to and that would augment their play in RQG. I think a pair of heroes, a male and female team, would be a good draw, perhaps a male Yelmalion or Waha having to work with a female Vingam or Babeester Goran would illustrate that the Hero Wars aren't just a religious conflict, but a cultural one as well.

I think that the fiction should be written to be accessible to a wide readership from high school to us old grogs, and should address difficult subjects in a direct manner instead of soft-soaping over them. RQ and Glorantha have always been more 'grown up' about such things as massacres, sexual assaults, refugee displacement and other serious issues than DnD or Star Trek and I think that's something that sets RQ apart from the herd.

I'll say plainly that I am not 'that guy' to write this stuff. I've tried being an author and my style gets too... wordy and sometimes condescending, I guess. I've tried several times to fix it but, as my posts on the board here clearly show, it's... 'a work in progress'... Having said all that, I would LOVE to read 'that person's' work.

[M Helsdon]

Non-canonical and Jonstown Compendium, so not official products: The Periplus in Ships & Shores is a mixture of story and setting. I will also be bringing a limited edition booklet to Dragonmeet and hopefully ChaosiumCon UK, with profits going to the RNLI. Cover of the booklet below.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/452062/ships-shores-of-southern-genertela

Edited November 19 by M Helsdon

[M Helsdon]

1 hour ago, svensson said:

I think that the fiction should be written to be accessible to a wide readership from high school to us old grogs, and should address difficult subjects in a direct manner instead of soft-soaping over them. RQ and Glorantha have always been more 'grown up' about such things as massacres, sexual assaults, refugee displacement and other serious issues than DnD or Star Trek and I think that's something that sets RQ apart from the herd.

Those are some mighty tricky parameters! And a direct handling of sensitive topics needs a great deal of care, as you are liable to alienate at least some of your audience. Gaming fiction is a tricky thing and very easy to get horribly wrong. I don't know if my attempts at fiction pass muster, but my approach is to handle Glorantha as I would an historical setting. I'd also note that in most of its iterations, Star Trek attempts to handle difficult topics, and has been doing so since the 60s.

[svensson]

35 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

Those are some mighty tricky parameters! And a direct handling of sensitive topics needs a great deal of care, as you are liable to alienate at least some of your audience. Gaming fiction is a tricky thing and very easy to get horribly wrong. I don't know if my attempts at fiction pass muster, but my approach is to handle Glorantha as I would an historical setting. I'd also note that in most of its iterations, Star Trek attempts to handle difficult topics, and has been doing so since the 60s.

I agree. But including the unpleasant side of human nature grounds the fiction in reality. I'm not saying that it should be made the centerpiece of the story. I'd really rather that RQ NOT go the way of Warhammer, even if Chaos is a principle enemy. 😆

[radmonger]

There is the Queen's Heir series, written by one of the authors of Borderlands. Originnally conceived of as Gloranthan, then reskinned to the real world Bronze Age.

[AndreJarosch]

And still available: 

EURHOL´S VALE 
https://www.ebay.de/itm/363935019539?_skw=Eurhols+Vale

[Malin]

If they ever wanted Glorantha fiction I know an author who would be perfect for writing it...

[g33k]

Personally, I suspect that Chaosium would be open to a fiction submission; but I don't think they want to commission it.

But I am not Chaosium, and have neither insight nor input on their decisions & perspectives.

[Malin]

I have been trying to figure out if fiction would be allowed/feasible under the Jonstown compendium banner, but haven't seen anything.

[M Helsdon]

23 minutes ago, Malin said:

I have been trying to figure out if fiction would be allowed/feasible under the Jonstown compendium banner, but haven't seen anything.

What types of content are prohibited?
Comics, fiction (unless short vignettes in roleplaying game materials).

https://help.drivethrurpg.com/hc/en-us/articles/12723268545943-Chaosium-Jonstown-Compendium-Content-Guidelines?affiliate_id=77157#h_01HRQM01C5T7GW68BJ76ZCQ5DZ

Edited November 20 by M Helsdon

[M Helsdon]

10 hours ago, svensson said:

I agree. But including the unpleasant side of human nature grounds the fiction in reality. I'm not saying that it should be made the centerpiece of the story. I'd really rather that RQ NOT go the way of Warhammer, even if Chaos is a principle enemy. 😆

There are ways and means. I tackle a number of these issues in my fiction, but can't judge how successful I am. All my books have an 'Adult Themes' warning. But if you want fiction that reflects how grim the terrestrial Bronze and Iron Age were you will have a hard time finding it.

Edited November 20 by M Helsdon

[Malin]

29 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

What types of content are prohibited?
Comics, fiction (unless short vignettes in roleplaying game materials).

https://help.drivethrurpg.com/hc/en-us/articles/12723268545943-Chaosium-Jonstown-Compendium-Content-Guidelines?affiliate_id=77157#h_01HRQM01C5T7GW68BJ76ZCQ5DZ

That's what I found too, but the Griselda stories are out there. However, I suppose that might be because they are collections of fanzine material.

[M Helsdon]

Just now, Malin said:

That's what I found too, but the Griselda stories are out there. However, I suppose that might be because they are collections of fanzine material.

Those were published with particular permissions, I believe.

[Malin]

That's what I figured. My Life and Traditions co-writer has been interested in writing a Glorantha novel, but there doesn't seem to be much space for it right now.

[Nick Brooke]

My advice would be to include a reasonable quantity of playable, gamer-friendly material alongside the fiction. Include maps and layouts for cities, villages and temples, give us the gist of the protagonist's RuneQuest stats, stat up any funky new spells, monsters and plunder. That would likely be enough to get past our beady, censorious eyes.

The Griselda stories are published under a separate license, they aren't on the community content programme. We don't want non-playable stuff clogging up a programme that has always been intended to provide playable material for fans of our role-playing games. If you still want to write Gloranthan fiction and don't want to contribute any of the things we actually want on our community content programme, reach out to Chaosium for a separate fiction license.

[Malin]

Thank you! We'll see what we'll do, right now we have no shortage of projects, just saw this thread and thought it was interesting!

Edited November 20 by Malin

[svensson]

Let me also say that one poster on the board here was trying to introduce Glorantha to new players and he couldn't find what you might call 'heroic' fiction his newbies to read. He specifically said the 'Griselda' fiction wasn't what they were looking for.

While I love me some Griselda putting the make on some unwitting stooge as much as the next grog, I do kind of see that poster's point. I'm sure he was looking for something more 'd20 fiction-ish' but I'm certain that with some of the talented writers on the board here we could find an aesthetic that could fit the bill but still be Glorantha.

 

[Nick Brooke]

For heroic Gloranthan fiction: my best recommendation is the Paulis Longvale narrative from Cults of Terror. It’s not a complete story - it’s like reading key chapters from a novel - but it stands up well, and is readily available from Chaosium as one of the RuneQuest Classics.

There’s also Vasana’s Saga from the core rulebook, but presumably your players have seen that already.

[M Helsdon]

1 hour ago, svensson said:

Let me also say that one poster on the board here was trying to introduce Glorantha to new players and he couldn't find what you might call 'heroic' fiction his newbies to read. 

Here's an extract from the Periplus....

Sea Bows

Heliodan cursed. ‘By Orlanth’s long lusty – ‘

‘You’re shooting too soon,’ Taz admonished him quietly, but close enough to hear over the wash of the waves rushing along the hull. ‘Wait ‘til they’re closer. You’ve let your string get wet. It’s stretched.’

The Heortlander grunted, even as his companion, compensating for the rolling deck, nocked, drew, anchored, sighted, and loosed, her arrow flying true, striking one of the pirate rowers in the chest. The woman cried out, audible even across the water, falling back and letting her paddle slip from her hands into the sea.

The other Amazons furiously redoubled their efforts, the pace of their stroke increasing, their war canoe surging closer. Two in the prow seemed to be readying flat bows.

The lean war canoe was racing in pursuit of the two lumbering merchant ships. Her long red-painted blade-shaped stem eagerly cut through the water, her menacing tailboard rearing up like the hood of a cobra. Other war-boats followed behind her.

The mercenary selected another arrow from his quiver, testing it on the bow, grimacing when the sinew string failed to go taut. He fumbled in his pouch for a dry bowstring.

Taz had another arrow ready, her tongue out as if she were tasting the wind.

The sail was filling, the sailors adjusting the braces and brails, bringing the yard around to catch all the wind.

This was turning into a long chase. Were the Amazons tiring?

Her composite bow sang, a sweet sound he had to admit, the blurred arrow visibly lofted up by the breeze. Again she found a target.

Heliodan grunted. If it came to a fight on deck, the type of brutal brawl he liked, his would be the advantage. In this sort of sea fight, at a distance, for all his strength and courage, Taz had the lead. His self-bow was good honest Heortland yew. Even the merchant passenger had taken up a bow, bamboo, made in Melib. The Esrolian was waiting, not wasting his arrows.

Taz’s next arrow caught the Mazari steerswoman in the shoulder with the nasty loud crack of a bone strike. The fletching feathers and half the shaft sprouted like a flower from her flesh, the arrowhead shattering the joint into splinters. In shock, stunned, the Amazon spun round and collapsed. She let go of the steering paddle, leaving it hanging from a strap, thrashing about in a spray of foam.

Breaching the waves, the big war canoe seemed to plunge, twisting in the water, a surge spilling over her topwale.

‘Yes! Yes! My beauty!’

Rolling his eyes, Heliodan finished bracing the string and flexed his bow. Better. This time his arrow hit, but barely penetrated the canoe’s oiled hide hull. He gritted his teeth in vexation.

Taz was singing a strange wordless song to her bow. He caught its name in the syllables – Ocyalte. Heliodan called his bow Bow, and sometimes Bastard.

Taz was affectionately patting her bowstave, thanking, it, and placing another arrow. ‘Ocyalte, another hit, I ask.’

Unlike his self-bow, her bow was a thing of beauty, the labor of some Pentan master bowmaker, of wood, antler and bone, shaped and glued together, wrapped in bark, varnished to an almost golden hue, with a thick leather grip, powerful for all its small size. A double winter’s work, she said. Taz would wax and oil the stave, crooning to it, stroking the limbs, back, and belly in ways that always made him jealous and aroused.

All its strength hadn’t helped its Pentan owner when the Empire came, of course. Taz had told him it was a gift from her uncle, war booty from some land he had never heard of.

Now the merchant loosed an arrow from his crude Melibite bow. Perhaps it was luck, perhaps it was the sea eagle vanes, but the long thin cane shaft pierced an Amazon’s throat.

‘Good hit,’ Taz laughed, shifting her stance to allow for the ship’s movement. She spared him a glance. The Lunars had said Esrolians were effete, weak, ruled by their women – as they should be, she thought – but as they had discovered, many were good fighters.

The merchant nodded, smoothly taking another arrow from his quiver.

Two bolts flew back on a near flat trajectory, the pirates now using their crossbows. One was caught by a wave crest and vanished, the other hitting a timber strake, embedding its bronze head, the short shaft twanging with frustrated force.

The Amazons in the bow yelled and swore, urgently reloading.

Now the crew behind them were chanting. ‘Tolat! Tolat! Tolat!’

Without the oversized steering paddle at the stern the war canoe was reliant on her rowers working and driving her in unison. The wounded steerswoman yelled commands, grimacing with pain, slumped below the flaring serpent hood of the stern. The canoe’s course was erratic, sometimes briefly turning away.

Heliodan growled, and took out a wide-headed arrow. He knew Taz was playing with him. The urge to hit something filled him, blood raging in his ears, the battle fury growing in his mind. He pulled his self-bow to its full extent, drawing the long hefty arrow to the head, his muscles striving to hold the string tight, the sensation physically satisfying. He eyed a foci tattooed on his forearm by the leather bracer, mouthed a spell, lips moving.

This was personal.

Her! The bitch with the golden nose ring.

Aim. Release!

The heavy-headed arrow skimmed low, just above the wavetops, striking the pirate hull, punching through, tearing a rip in the thick oiled hide and piercing the Amazon’s thigh. The shrill scream was pleasant to his ears, Taz’s holler of admiration even more pleasing.

Maybe she’ll stroke my limbs and belly tonight, rub the eagle inked on my chest? he wondered, a faint smile on his fire-scarred face.

The progress of the canoe faltered.

They were losing distance as the two round ships flew with the wind, sails full and ropes thrumming.

Heliodan chortled. ‘Well done, Bastard,’ he ran his hand down its slightly curved limb, and seeing the pirate women were out of range turned to his one-time captive. ‘Good?’

‘Oh yes,’ Taz grinned. ‘All good, you brute.’

Away in the growing distance, the Amazons turned away, bloodied and cursing.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/452062/ships-shores-of-southern-genertela

 

 

[radmonger]

The median self-published novel on Kindle sells something like 250 copies. Any non-terrible Gloranthan fiction would likely beat that, and you still get to roll the dice on becoming a hit. It's an attractive proposition for any Gloranthan fan with ambitions of writing a book with their name on.

Of course, the limiting factor is that Chaosium presumably do not want Gloranthan stuff published commercially without their approval, and they do not have much time or budget to commit to giving that approval. Plus they probably have plans to do something properly at some point, maybe sometime after the Heroquesting rules are published.

Meanwhile, the Hittites are not currently demanding royalties. But there is plenty of fanfic.

 

[svensson]

8 hours ago, Malin said:

I have been trying to figure out if fiction would be allowed/feasible under the Jonstown compendium banner, but haven't seen anything.

Good question!

[svensson]

@Nick Brooke

I wouldn't think this would really be a JC submission, but how about encouraging Chaosium to do a Vasana's Story extract and edit for download?

I've often recommended that refs do a cut-and-paste to give to new players to read.

[Nick Brooke]

10 minutes ago, svensson said:

Good question!

Answered in the FAQ.

Quote

 

Q: The rules say fiction is banned. That’s a bit harsh! Isn’t there any kind of fiction I can include in my works?

A: Short fiction that’s thematically linked to playable content is fine. Don’t try to create a short story collection, novella, or literary journal: the Jonstown Compendium is not the right place for that (bear in mind Chaosium publishes its own paperback fiction). But if you want to include some short fiction (inc. myths or in-character narration) in a title to showcase your settings, characters or monsters, that’d be absolutely fine. The fiction must support playable material.

 

Please understand our intent here. The Jonstown Compendium is on DriveThruRPG, not DriveThruFiction. If you aren't writing anything that's usable by players or game masters of our role-playing games, it probably doesn't belong in this programme. Whether you write playable material as a fig-leaf to lend respectability to your fiction, or write fiction in order to support your playable material, is a chicken-and-egg question: I'm sure you can find examples that either way (not least in my own books and Martin's, to name but two), and we certainly aren't here to make windows into men's hearts. But that fig-leaf of gaming respectability, that thematic link to playable content, matters to Chaosium, or it wouldn't be in the rules.

If you can't write playable content yourself, why not team up with someone who can, the same way you'd find an artist or cartographer or editor?

If you have weird hypothetical questions about books you have no intention of actually writing, please see the last section of the FAQ.

If you want to encourage Chaosium to give more stuff away for free, the intertubes are thataway, and a polite email can work wonders.

[M Helsdon]

4 hours ago, radmonger said:

The median self-published novel on Kindle sells something like 250 copies. Any non-terrible Gloranthan fiction would likely beat that, and you still get to roll the dice on becoming a hit. It's an attractive proposition for any Gloranthan fan with ambitions of writing a book with their name on.

Given the time and effort required, that makes those novels even more vanity projects than Jonstown Compendium publications!

Unless you are a very fast writer, creating even a small novel takes tens if not hundreds of hours. The average professionally published novel sells only a thousand or so copies, unless the author is popular. Most authors don't earn much. Selling five thousand copies denotes a successful book. Sales of Jonstown books on DriveThru suggests that the market isn't massive. @Nick Brooke might quantify how many have achieved Platinum – 1000+, and Mithril – 2000+. No one, so far as I am aware has reached Adamantine – 5000+.

44 minutes ago, svensson said:

Good question!

The JC rules say No.

23 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

Please understand our intent here. The Jonstown Compendium is on DriveThruRPG, not DriveThruFiction. If you aren't writing anything that's usable by players or game masters of our role-playing games, it probably doesn't belong in this programme. Whether you write playable material as a fig-leaf to lend respectability to your fiction, or write fiction in order to support your playable material, is a chicken-and-egg question: I'm sure you can find examples that either way (not least in my own books and Martin's, to name but two), and we certainly aren't here to make windows into men's hearts. But that fig-leaf of gaming respectability, that thematic link to playable content, matters to Chaosium, or it wouldn't be in the rules.

Yup. Ships & Shores ended up mixing the Periplus (a mixture of setting material and story - and hopefully the setting descriptions and story plots are useful to GMs) with details of ships and shipbuilding, and seafaring including encounters, and, as chapter dividers portraits and NPC information for major and minor characters in the Periplus, plus other gameable material. I've had people say the Periplus should be a distinct volume, but that isn't possible. For my current project, fiction has allowed me to explore and discover details that might not have been unearthed by simply mapping the location. It's also surprising what turns up when you are writing art direction and finding reference material for artists.

For Armies & Enemies there are short segments of fiction relevant to the chapters. I had considered writing about the life and experience of two fighters - a Sartari warrior and a Lunar soldier culminating in them fighting it out, but the page count was already high. 

[svensson]

@M Helsdon Well, I'm thrilled that Kulyanan's Periplus will be released as its own standalone tale. I may have mention how much I enjoyed it 😁