Atgxtg Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Of course... But both are very connotated. When you say D20 to someone who knows roleplaying games, he immediately thinks to D&D. And when you say D100, he immediately thinks to the BRP system... I'm sure that at least one voting in two was influenced by this connotation. I know I sure did. Dice are just dice. It is how they are used than makes the difference. And the terms D100 and (especially) D20 are normally taken as references to Chaosium's and WotC's RPG systems. If we are going to get technical with how the dice are used, D100 is more difficult because you have to handle twice as many dice. Both system tend to interpret the dice about the same. Either as a weighted D2 (succeed,fail), weighted D3 (critical, succeed, fail), weighted D4 (critical, succeed, fail, fumblee), or weighted D5 (critical, special, succeed, fail, fumble). But that applies to virtually every RPG. Quote Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMonroe Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Of course... But both are very connotated. When you say D20 to someone who knows roleplaying games, he immediately thinks to D&D. And when you say D100, he immediately thinks to the BRP system... I'm sure that at least one voting in two was influenced by this connotation. Sure. Pendragon uses a D20, and that game is really a refinement of BRP. HeroQuest uses a D20, and it's got hardly anything to do with BRP or D&D. Quote Please don't contact me with Chaosium questions. I'm no longer associated with the company, and have no idea what the new management is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanszurcher Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) Granularity comes to mind as the biggest difference. I imagine this is the sort of thing the OP poll was looking for. Edited August 7, 2012 by hanszurcher Quote I don`t play monsters. I play men besieged by fate and out for revenge. ~Vincent Price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Granularity comes to mind as the biggest difference. I imagine this is the sort of thing the OP poll was looking for. Hmmm granularity, anyone up for a d1000? I always find it amusing to see how people will try to convince people their way is the best right only way instead of simply an opinion (roll over is superior because the brain assumes higher = better ). As far as the old which die is higher switcheroo, they do make 1's and 10s d10s which pretty much handles that problem (and you could use a d20 for the 100s if you want to give the d1000 a try). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMonroe Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I always find it amusing to see how people will try to convince people their way is the best right only way instead of simply an opinion (roll over is superior because the brain assumes higher = better ). Clearly, "what I like" is awesome, and a well-considered, educated opinion. While "what other people like" is stupid, and just a bunch of made up gobbledygoook. Quote Please don't contact me with Chaosium questions. I'm no longer associated with the company, and have no idea what the new management is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Clearly, "what I like" is awesome, and a well-considered, educated opinion. While "what other people like" is stupid, and just a bunch of made up gobbledygoook. But of course. And for the record, I'm fine with both roll over and roll under. I never knew it was up for debate before the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanszurcher Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) Hmmm granularity, anyone up for a d1000? I've seen d1000 used in wargames and some random-roll rpg charts. You can get them in stores or roll three d10s. The thing I like best about d100, flip-flop dice in Unknown Armies. Edit: They also sell d10000s, never seen them in use though. Edited August 7, 2012 by hanszurcher Quote I don`t play monsters. I play men besieged by fate and out for revenge. ~Vincent Price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Sure. Pendragon uses a D20, and that game is really a refinement of BRP. HeroQuest uses a D20, and it's got hardly anything to do with BRP or D&D. Of course. A lot of games use D20 and D100 differently from D&D and BRP. Two more examples: Bushido uses a D20 like BRP or Pendragon, and Middle Earth Role Playing Game (the Role Master version) uses a D100 like D&D. But D&D and BRP are the most famous roleplaying games. In France, they are always in the three first places when the question is: what is your favorite RPG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I always find it amusing to see how people will try to convince people their way is the best right only way instead of simply an opinion.That's right. Having said that, trying to find arguments about once opinions is not necessarilly ignoring that it is just opinions. Opinions are not chosen randomly. Everyone has good reasons to think what he think... Even if he can't be sure that it is the truth... And even if what is good for someone is not necessarily good for someone else. And knowing the reasons of other's opinions is good. It opens the mind. As long as nobody becomes a fanatic. (roll over is superior because the brain assumes higher = better ).That is especially true for beginners. They often find difficult to understand why a low roll is better in BRP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 And for the record, I'm fine with both roll over and roll under. I never knew it was up for debate before the internet. Either do I. But because I did both (and still go on doing both) I have to admit that rolling under is faster than adding two numbers together. Especially in the middle of huge combats... When it is late in the night and when you are alrady playing for a very long time... At least, for the Game Master who has to do that for a huge number of NPC while the player content themselves with only one character... But I perfectly know that it is just one opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atgxtg Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Granularity comes to mind as the biggest difference. I imagine this is the sort of thing the OP poll was looking for. But a bigger die size doesn't translate into grnulatity, thats a misconception. In most D100 systems, most of the time, there is no difference between a 33 and a 34. Most veraints of BRP use only 4 or 5 grades of results; Critical Success, Specia Success, Success, Failure and Fumble. SO just rolling a bigger die doesn"t mean much. Look at RQ2 (the real RQ2), it used a D100, but kept skills in 5% increments. It was practically the same as rolling a D20. Quote Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atgxtg Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 That is especially true for beginners. They often find difficult to understand why a low roll is better in BRP. It isn"t better for BRP. It was better for RQ. Once BRP added opposed rolls, low roll was not better anymore. The added sp[ecial cases where high beat low. Quote Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 It isn"t better for BRP. It was better for RQ. Once BRP added opposed rolls, low roll was not better anymore. The added sp[ecial cases where high beat low. You're right for opposed skill rolls. But not for ordinary actions and combats. And even for opposed rolls, very low roll (special or critical successes) are far much better than higher ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atgxtg Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 You're right for opposed skill rolls. But not for ordinary actions and combats. And even for opposed rolls, very low roll (special or critical successes) are far much better than higher ones. BTW, there is an old thread where I did the math for low wins on opposed rolls and it dopes not hurt the higher skilled character as much as most people think. Quote Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 BTW, there is an old thread where I did the math for low wins on opposed rolls and it dopes not hurt the higher skilled character as much as most people think. Sure. Special and critical successes are rare enough... But when you explain the game to a beginner, you still tell him that you have to roll under your skill to succeed and that when you roll very low, it is even better. In a game like D&D, to the contrary, you say that higher is the result, better is the success. Now, another difference came to my mind. Games which are using a D100 under the ability have an edge over the D20 (no matter if you have to roll over a difficulty or under a stat). Abilities become percentages. And everybody understand percentages because a lot of things in our culture is described via percentages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atgxtg Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Now, another difference came to my mind. Games which are using a D100 under the ability have an edge over the D20 (no matter if you have to roll over a difficulty or under a stat). Abilities become percentages. And everybody understand percentages because a lot of things in our culture is described via percentages. That's a double edged sword. Especially when people look at the starting %, or at % over 100. Realistically, nobody misses somebody in melee over half the time. Nor does anybody have over a 100% chance of succeeds at something. Triying to exaplain that to newbies can be a problem. Quote Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vile Traveller Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Trying to exaplain that to newbies can be a problem. It's not that bad, because in most cases newbies won't encounter 100+ percentages unless the referee throws them in at the deep end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonewt Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 It's not that bad, because in most cases newbies won't encounter 100+ percentages unless the referee throws them in at the deep end. Deep end of "normal" human scale (assumed 'default' fantasy)? Or entry level or middle of Super Hero or Mythic scale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atgxtg Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 It's not that bad, because in most cases newbies won't encounter 100+ percentages unless the referee throws them in at the deep end. Some BRP games (Elric! for example) want PCs to start with a combat skill over 100%. And players can always bite off more than they can chew, especially newbies used to other RPGs who get an exaggerated idea of their capabilities. I once had a group of players in RQ decide to tackle a Rune Lord. The players had a couple of sessions under their belts and thought they were very powerful because they could fight, cast spells and wear armor-something they couldn't do in AD&D. After the reality check of a battle, the players were very upset with the Rune Lord's sword skill. It took some time to explain that skills can go over 100% and that boosting that with spells like fanatacism, berserk, or bladesharp is perfectly legit. Quote Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanszurcher Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) But a bigger die size doesn't translate into grnulatity, thats a misconception. In most D100 systems, most of the time, there is no difference between a 33 and a 34. Most veraints of BRP use only 4 or 5 grades of results; Critical Success, Specia Success, Success, Failure and Fumble. SO just rolling a bigger die doesn"t mean much. Look at RQ2 (the real RQ2), it used a D100, but kept skills in 5% increments. It was practically the same as rolling a D20. I would agree, mostly. But we're not talking about the system. Edited August 8, 2012 by hanszurcher Quote I don`t play monsters. I play men besieged by fate and out for revenge. ~Vincent Price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 That's a double edged sword. Especially when people look at the starting %, or at % over 100. Realistically, nobody misses somebody in melee over half the time. Nor does anybody have over a 100% chance of succeeds at something. Triying to exaplain that to newbies can be a problem. Yes. That's right. Now, it is quite easy to explain that the percentages on the character sheet are the percentages in a stressful situation, like a combat to the death... Then, the GM just has to add that in easier situations (most of the ones we meet in our ordinary life), percentages are doubled. Likewise, for percentages above 100, it is easy to say that some actions are difficult and, then, percentages are halved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I would agree, mostly. But we're not talking about the system. Just speaking about dice, the D100 has much more granuality than the D20, of course. 5 times more. Now, a D1000 wouldn't really add something to the game. Having a bonus (or an ability improve) of +1% is almost nothing... So having a +0.1% would be ridiculous... Too much granuality kills granuality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atgxtg Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I would agree, mostly. But we're not talking about the system. But system is how the dice are used. TO date, I can't think of a single system that uses !1D100 in a way that uses the "granularity" of the hundred sides. I have seen some that use the difference of the roll on 20 sided dice to determine the effect. As far as "roll low" goes, there are RPGs like Flashing Blades that do just that with a D20, and are probably as easy to play as BRP. I don't think we can give much credit (or blame) to the size of the dice used. Quote Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonewt Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) I don't think we can give much credit (or blame) to the size of the dice used. I don't always roll dice, but when I do, I prefer a D10,000 (eBay). Stay granular, my friends. Edited August 8, 2012 by dragonewt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filbanto Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) I can't think of a single system that uses !1D100 in a way that uses the "granularity" of the hundred sides. Many of the recent iterations of BRP make use of the granularity in opposed skill contests, don't they? The whole "if both characters succeed the guy that rolls highest wins" business? This can theoretically come down to a 1% difference in die rolls. I also recall that Rolemaster made use of it for the combat and spell "to hit" system. You referenced a table to determine damage done and criticals - pretty sure it was in 1% increments. Edited August 8, 2012 by filbanto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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