White Bull Society spirit cult?

[Squaredeal Sten]

I have read the threads about the White Bull Society's political importance as Argrath's military power base, and the White Bull as a son of Storm Bull and fruit of heroquesting.

But I would like to know about something more playable, since one of my campaign is in the 1630s and it apparently would be appropriate for some Praxian characters to be members.

The White Bull Society appears to be a spirit cult, among its other facets. Tell me if I'm wrong there.    What are its requirements for membership?   What magic does initiation into it confer or enable? 

 

Edited November 26 by Squaredeal Sten
capitalization

[Nick Brooke]

There’s a two-paragraph Sartar Book preview with some more information about the White Bull spirit cult on page 58 of A Rough Guide to Boldhome.

[Squaredeal Sten]

OK, Rough Guide says its associated with Orlanth. Storm Bull, Waha.  And White Bull worship always includes worship of Argrath.  All Praxian Khans have a Loyalty to the White Bull & Argrath per Waha revelation.  

The worship is a requirement.  IMHO The rest is political positioning and Gloranthan background lore.

So IMG initiation into White Bull costs 1 POW, includes a Loyalty to Argrath.   and for this the initiate gets.... ,? Perhaps learns Impede Chaos?  And learns 5% in Prax Lore as well as 15% Cult Lore (White Bull,)?

 

Edited November 26 by Squaredeal Sten
? extra letters

[Rodney Dangerduck]

15 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

MPOK, Rough Guide says its associated with Orlanth. Storm Bull, Waha.  And White Bull worship always includes worship of Argrath.  All Praxian Khans have a Loyalty to the White Bull & Argrath per Waha revelation.  

The worship is a requirement.  IMHO The rest is political positioning and Gloranthan background lore.

So IMG initiation into White Bull costs 1 POW, includes a Loyalty to Argrath.   and for this the initiate gets.... ,? Perhaps learns Impede Chaos?  And learns 5% in Prax Lore as well as 15% Cult Lore (White Bull,)?

 

Worshipping Argrath and The Party is it's own reward.

(Any cynicism due to similarity with current events all over the world is purely coincidental)

[Nick Brooke]

I think this is the classic case where you get a cultist’s Devotion (White Bull) rather than a personal Loyalty (Argrath). But YGWV.

[Squaredeal Sten]

34 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

I think this is the classic case where you get a cultist’s Devotion (White Bull) rather than a personal Loyalty (Argrath). But YGWV.

I was thinking about the text in that piece from Jeff Richards (Well of  Daliath, White Bull Society notes)  that said all the Khans had a loyalty to Argrath. and many followers have a Loyalty greater than to their clans and other cults.

 

Edited November 26 by Squaredeal Sten
Well of Daliath reference

[Malin]

One might argue that at this point the White Bull IS Argrath for many, so loyalty to one would be loyalty to the other.

[Malin]

The players in my campaign are working hard on expanding the White Bull cult, so I have them building the spirit cult from the ground up. After 3 years, some converting and heroquesting they finally have access to their first rune magic. As always, this has nothing to do with the official cult, my glorantha is varying. I have given the players choices in which direction to push, right now it is a messianic unifying movement, but I can't wait to see them pushing it more towards the war side... it's only 1618 yet, so much left to happen.

Edited November 26 by Malin

[Nick Brooke]

31 minutes ago, Malin said:

One might argue that at this point the White Bull IS Argrath for many, so loyalty to one would be loyalty to the other.

I go by Jeff Richard’s old example: Loyalty (Paul Atreides) vs. Devotion (Muad’Dib). Are you a heroband retainer or a fanatical cultist?

[Nick Brooke]

35 minutes ago, Malin said:

One might argue that at this point the White Bull IS Argrath for many, so loyalty to one would be loyalty to the other.

The adventurer creation rules in RQG take a different approach, though.

[Malin]

1 minute ago, Nick Brooke said:

The adventurer creation rules in RQG take a different approach, though.

Of course! Rules always need clear answers, the real world is a lot more muddy. (My comment was mostly philosophical in nature...)

[kalidor]

1 hour ago, Malin said:

The players in my campaign are working hard on expanding the White Bull cult, so I have them building the spirit cult from the ground up. After 3 years, some converting and heroquesting they finally have access to their first rune magic. As always, this has nothing to do with the official cult, my glorantha is varying. I have given the players choices in which direction to push, right now it is a messianic unifying movement, but I can't wait to see them pushing it more towards the war side... it's only 1618 yet, so much left to happen.

I read somewhere that you get Charisma.

[Darius West]

On 11/27/2024 at 5:02 AM, Malin said:

The players in my campaign are working hard on expanding the White Bull cult, so I have them building the spirit cult from the ground up. After 3 years, some converting and heroquesting they finally have access to their first rune magic. As always, this has nothing to do with the official cult, my glorantha is varying. I have given the players choices in which direction to push, right now it is a messianic unifying movement, but I can't wait to see them pushing it more towards the war side... it's only 1618 yet, so much left to happen.

This is good work.

[Darius West]

Incidentally, is there anywhere that the White Bull Prophecy is actually written down? 

[Malin]

4 hours ago, Darius West said:

Incidentally, is there anywhere that the White Bull Prophecy is actually written down? 

I've been looking, but there's surprisingly little detail about the White Bull in general for something that's mentioned so often. I haven't been able to find anything.

[mfbrandi]

6 hours ago, Malin said:

I haven’t been able to find anything.

Which is the perfect situation, right, leaving it wide open for “discovery” in play?

Unfortunately, my mind it ain’t so open that anything could crawl right in: I cannot help but imagine stabbing it, skinning it, and having a picnic with the Invincible Sun. And that makes me think of the return of Sheng Seleris. The last place to lose yourself is in the world where we all cling. 😉

[Malin]

2 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

The last place to lose yourself is in the world where we all cling

I just need to say that I truly enjoy your philosophical asides no matter the subject! But yes, I love it, because now I can let my players build their own white bull. They haven't skinned it yet tho...

[mfbrandi]

4 minutes ago, Malin said:

They haven’t skinned it yet tho …

But when they pass the Phrygian cap vendor crying out his Black Friday° deals, then surely …

——————————————
° Fireday, Illusion Week, Dark-season?

[Squaredeal Sten]

On 11/28/2024 at 8:22 PM, Darius West said:

Incidentally, is there anywhere that the White Bull Prophecy is actually written down? 

Yes, not quoted in detail but described in Well of Daliath, here https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/prax-the-lunar-empire-and-the-white-bull/

" The White Bull Society is throwing a hand grenade into the powder keg. It is somewhat analogous to the Lakota variation of the Ghost Dance. It is a millenarian movement – associated with the Jaldon Goldentooth hero cult, and other cults in Prax. The White Bull is expected to unify the Praxian nations and liberate them from the yoke of the Lunar Empire, bring spirits and gods to fight on their behalf, and triumph over Chaos "

Probably No in Glorantha because the Praxians are not literate in their own language, though some Lankhor Mhy scholar may write it down any day now.

[mfbrandi]

8 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

“ … It is somewhat analogous to the Lakota variation of the Ghost Dance … ”

• They told the people they could dance a new world into being. There would be landslides, earthquakes, and big winds. Hills would pile up on each other. The earth would roll up like a carpet with all the white man’s ugly things — the stinking new animals, sheep and pigs, the fences, the telegraph poles, the mines and factories. Underneath would be the wonderful old-new world as it had been before the white fat-takers came … The white men will be rolled up, disappear, go back to their own continent.
  — John Fire/Lame Deer & Richard Erdoes, Lame Deer, Seeker of Visions (p. 228)

I wonder who are the Mormon analogues in all this?

Edited November 30 by mfbrandi
“”

[Soccercalle]

Vasana uses the Rune Spell Discorporation in one of her stories in the Core Rulebook. That is not an Orlanth spell so I guess that its from the White Bull Society.

There is also a short write-up in the non-canon resource Cradle of Heroes:

https://www.cradleofheroes.net/view_cult/white-bull 

 

[Darius West]

On 11/29/2024 at 6:22 PM, Malin said:

I've been looking, but there's surprisingly little detail about the White Bull in general for something that's mentioned so often. I haven't been able to find anything.

Yes, I had a similar problem.

[Nick Brooke]

Any “White Bull prophecy” that turns up in my game would be uncomfortably Delphic. On the face of it, it’s saying that at the end of the world the White Bull will lead the Storm Bull cult into a final battle against the Devil. And I’m sure that’s all True. Note that it doesn’t say it’s smart for the cult to follow him, nor that they’ll win that battle…

[mfbrandi]

On 12/3/2024 at 7:15 AM, Nick Brooke said:

it’s saying that at the end of the world the White Bull will lead the Storm Bull cult into a final battle against the Devil … it doesn’t say … they’ll win

• The Storm Bulls’ Devil is violence — their own.
• They always lost that battle before, but …
• White Bull.
• White flag.
• White Moon.
• There is always hope for the poor bastards, no?

Don’t worry, it is just my inner hippy speaking. I’m having it euthanised.

[Groovetronic]

On 11/30/2024 at 2:02 PM, Soccercalle said:

Vasana uses the Rune Spell Discorporation in one of her stories in the Core Rulebook. That is not an Orlanth spell so I guess that its from the White Bull Society.

There is also a short write-up in the non-canon resource Cradle of Heroes:

https://www.cradleofheroes.net/view_cult/white-bull 

 

That seemed to be more like a technique than a spell, per say - it seemed to be a form of mysticism that Argrath taught the Vasana and co.