BRP - first time user needs help in character creation

[Albert]

Hello everyone.
As I sad in the title I'm approacing BRP for the very first time; my purpose is to create a cupple of characters to play a solo adventure in High Fantasy setting, so I rolled some dice and I found some problems in choosing where to allocate points (especially for the wizzard: INT or POW? Wich one is more important in spell casting?)
I read the BRP Quick-Start Edition and I'm reading the whole manual but I have some questions.

1. As mentioned before: how magic works?
   INT indicates how many spells I can learn?
   POW indicates how many point I have to cast spells? and indicates the % of spell casting chance?
   For example my Wizzard has 16/19 INT/POW, it's correct he may learn up to 16 spells and the chance to cast is 95%?
2. How much points I have to spend on skill? In BRP QSE I found 300 it's correct?.
   
   Thanks to everyone who help me.
    

 

[Mugen]

There's no definitive answer to your questions, as every game based on BRP has different answers to them. I'll try to give you generic answers nonetheless. Keep in mind some magic systems are very different.

1. Usually, INT is used as the limit on how many spells a character can know, and POW is the basis for how many Magic Points he has available, which are spent to cast spells. So, I'd say POW is more useful to mages nonetheless.

As for spells chance of success, it depends on the system. For instancew in the core BRP, you'll find two magic systems :

• Magic treats spells as skills. So, to cast a spell you must roll under the appropriate skill ;
• Sorcery don't use skills. Once you've learned a spell, you have 100% chance to cast it. But spells are more limited than with Magic.

The POW x5 chance of success is from RuneQuest Spirit Magic, which is part of the oldest magic systems for BRP.

2. This really varies a lot between games, and changes depending on how many skills exist in the setting or how competent you want PCs to be. 300 sounds low to me, as it basically means 60 points in 5 skills. Elric!, for instance, gave 250 points, but also gabe +20 to 13 skills, for a total of 510 points. Call of Cthulhu can give more than that.

[AndreJarosch]

2. It depends which Power Level you want to play. 
For profession skills: 
Normal: 250 points, and no skill above 75%
Heroic: 325 points, and no skill above 90%
Epic: 400 points, and no skill above 101%
Superhuman: 500 points, and no limit. 

Plus personal point pool: 
Normal: INTx10 points, limits as above 
Heroic: INTx15 points, limits as above 
Epic: INTx20 points, limits as above 
Superhuman: INTx25 points, limits as above 

[Mugen]

Note the complete text of the BRP is available free and online on this website :

 

 

Sections 6 and 7 of character creation (at pages 8 and 9) give options for starting levels.

Note that applying Section 6 (Personality, which is the +20% to 13 skills I mentioned earlier) AND one of the options mentioned at the end of section 7 may result in characters with more points than expected. 😄

I would add that I don't really agree with the limitations on individual skill levels given on each "power level". I would definitely let characters get 90+ in profesional skills, or even 100+, even in "Normal" power level. That's the kind of skill levels real world professionals can attain before their 30s, especially for athletes.

 

 

Edited December 8, 2024 by Mugen

[Albert]

At the moment I chose 325 skill point + INTx15 and no limitations on skill level.
The wizzard (Aaron, 30 y.o. - age got by random) results (at my eyes) more powerful than the warrior (Brand, 20 y.o.)

The first one is:
STR 13 / CON 14 / SIZ 12 / INT 16 / POW 19 / DEX 16 /APP 10
And after gave him 90 pts in Craft I still have 470 pts to spend!
All the 16 spell I chose for him have 95% of chance (POWx5).
I gave him 16 in DEX  to have him soon in the battle (DEX rank) and 'cause it seems to me that DEX play a role in casting spell.

The warrior is:
STR 18 / CON 16 / SIZ 16 / INT 9 / POW 9 / DEX 14 /APP 10
..not a sharp mind, but a simply brute force guy.
Distribute his point has been so hard! He got only 460 pts and I thought it was good give him 90 both in a melee weapon (bastard sword) and a ranged weapon (long bow), also 90 in Dodge and Brawl, then 85 in Grapple, 65 in long sword and 60 in medium crossbow. Not much more: just 24 pts spent in Fullshield (for a total of 38); so a very fighting oriented character... but I'm not convinced at all about him! May be Brawl and Grapple should be good both at 75, bastard sword and long bow should be lowered at 80-85 lets him having more point (60-65) in shield and some more here and there in Climb/Hide/Jump. 

My lack of experience in this kind of player creation is evident.
 

 

[Atgxtg]

55 minutes ago, Albert said:

My lack of experience in this kind of player creation is evident.

Nah, you're doing okay. As pointed out already the BRP:UGE rules are very flexible and have lots of options, and that gives it a bit of a tougher learning curve. It's probably the toughest version of the BRP game system to learn. All those options to choose from. Even us old timers would have a similar experience.  

 

 

[g33k]

On 12/6/2024 at 11:16 PM, Albert said:

Hello everyone.
As I sad in the title I'm approacing BRP for the very first time; my purpose is to create a cupple of characters to play a solo adventure in High Fantasy setting, so I rolled some dice and I found some problems in choosing where to allocate points (especially for the wizzard: INT or POW? Wich one is more important in spell casting?)
I read the BRP Quick-Start Edition and I'm reading the whole manual but I have some questions.

1. As mentioned before: how magic works?
   INT indicates how many spells I can learn?
   POW indicates how many point I have to cast spells? and indicates the % of spell casting chance?
   For example my Wizzard has 16/19 INT/POW, it's correct he may learn up to 16 spells and the chance to cast is 95%?
2. How much points I have to spend on skill? In BRP QSE I found 300 it's correct?.
   
   Thanks to everyone who help me.

It's  worth noting that the big "BRP:UGE" book (and the prior "BGB" (Big Gold Book) for which the (same  cover-art) QuickStart is written) are much more DIY rpg-toolkits than playable RPG's "straight from the book." 

The QuickStart booklet itself is much "better" in this regard, removing many of the options & choices to provide a stripped-down "quick" playable experience... but of course is in turn "worse" in being less-versatile for many different genres, and for sustained campaign play.

Specific to the POW vs INT question, I'd value POW over INT for the BRP QuickStart, noticing that the Sample wizard (Aagarth on p.36) has POW 18 / INT 14 ... but also that the spells seem to be based on per-spell skills (NOT straight POWx5), e.g.

• Flame 45%, 3D6 fire damage (50’ rng)
• Heal 45%, restores 1D6 hit points

(cut&paste from QS pdf, +bullet-pointed)

Edited December 8, 2024 by g33k

[Atgxtg]

3 hours ago, g33k said:

It's  worth noting that the big "BRP:UGE" book (and the prior "BGB" (Big Gold Book) for which the (same  cover-art) QuickStart is written) are much more DIY rpg-toolkits than playable RPG's "straight from the book." 

Yeah. In fact they are probably the two least "basic" versions of any Basic Role Playing Game. 

That's what makes it so hard to answer rules questions. Most of the time, the correct answer is "Maybe, it depends on which rules you are using." and that's not all that helpful.

[tooley1chris]

Welcome to BRP, my new friend. You're going to find this is very flexible and can meet dang near whatever requirements you want in YOUR game. Think about what seems fair or balanced or whatever to YOU and you make it work!

 You've found the BEST RPG community you could possibly hope for. Many are old timers that know the guidelines inside and out for a dozen BRP related systems (and the best way to merge them) and the others are young enough to have very fresh perspectives on time tried mechanics. The good thing? They all work together to make the system even better!

 

[Albert]

6 hours ago, tooley1chris said:

Welcome to BRP, my new friend. You're going to find this is very flexible and can meet dang near whatever requirements you want in YOUR game. Think about what seems fair or balanced or whatever to YOU and you make it work!

 You've found the BEST RPG community you could possibly hope for. Many are old timers that know the guidelines inside and out for a dozen BRP related systems (and the best way to merge them) and the others are young enough to have very fresh perspectives on time tried mechanics. The good thing? They all work together to make the system even better!

 

It's great to have all of you at my side in this amazing journey!
Speaking on fairness as I sad in the first post I think my two characters have to be slightly more poweful than the other NPC, not because they are gifted somehow but because they are the whole company and must face alone the threatening world.

Of course, If I will go for spells chance straight on POWx5 this will affect all the spell caster in the game, not only Aaron!

I really appreciate all of your replies and if you don't mind I will keep you updated about the sessions (even to have feedback whether I'm playing in a fair way!)

[Susimetsa]

On 12/8/2024 at 8:20 PM, Albert said:

The warrior is:
STR 18 / CON 16 / SIZ 16 / INT 9 / POW 9 / DEX 14 /APP 10
..not a sharp mind, but a simply brute force guy.
Distribute his point has been so hard! He got only 460 pts and I thought it was good give him 90 both in a melee weapon (bastard sword) and a ranged weapon (long bow), also 90 in Dodge and Brawl, then 85 in Grapple, 65 in long sword and 60 in medium crossbow. Not much more: just 24 pts spent in Fullshield (for a total of 38); so a very fighting oriented character... but I'm not convinced at all about him! May be Brawl and Grapple should be good both at 75, bastard sword and long bow should be lowered at 80-85 lets him having more point (60-65) in shield and some more here and there in Climb/Hide/Jump.

Every group plays the game as they prefer - but personally, as a GM, I'd not allow a player to make a character like that (placing all of their points into fighting skills). I'd ask them to consider their childhood and what skills they learned from their parents, their apprenticeship if they had any... Even a pure warrior would learn to mend armour and clothes, dig ditches, care for animals, cook etc. as part of their lifestyle.

In my games, I support this by creating them certain lifestyle packages / culture packages to spend their development points on. A child growing up in a merchant family would pick the merchant package. If they were raised in an urban environment, they would pick the urban culture package etc. etc.

Edited December 10, 2024 by Susimetsa

[Mugen]

16 spells is *a lot*.

For instance, in RuneQuest's Spirit Magic, a spell "costs" 1 INT per MP it costs to cast. That is, if you have 16 INT you can learn 4 spells that cost 4 MP each, or 5 spells that cost 3 MP, plus one that costs 1MP.

On the other hand, RQ Sorcery (*) spells only cost 1 INT each, but you can't spend more MP than (INT-number of known spells) to cast them.

(*)which is completely different from BRP core rukebook Sorcery...)

[Atgxtg]

15 hours ago, Mugen said:

On the other hand, RQ Sorcery (*) spells only cost 1 INT each, but you can't spend more MP than (INT-number of known spells) to cast them.

Although RQ3 had spell maxtrices that let you get around that, as well as familiars and allied sprirts.

And if you used Sandy Peterson's Sorcery rules, it eliminated "Free INT"

Si there were ways around it, especially for professional sorcerers. They weren't easy, orfor novices, but they were there. A lot of RQ worked that way. That was the whole path to Rune Level. 

15 hours ago, Mugen said:

(*)which is completely different from BRP core rukebook Sorcery...)

but remarkably similar to Stormbringer and Magic World Sorcery.

 

 

[Albert]

Hello everyone.
An up-date to my adventure in creating characters.

First I tryed a little session with the "power characters" I made but, even they have many points in combat skills (and in magic too!) they died quickly agains a cupple of soldiers (well, facing them unarmed was a very bad idea, punished with quite unluky rolls..).

Then, wile I'm working on balancing them to start the adventure again I found BRP 4th edition; there I got really helpfuly and clear guide to character creation and campaign settings. So, here my choises and the characters.

Campaign power level: Heroic
Points Pool: 325+(INTx15)

Aaron, the Wizzard got 610 pts, Brand, the Warrior got 460 and Katja (new character), the Thief got 550.

Aaron is:
STR 13 / CON 14 / SIZ 12 / INT 16 / POW 19 / DEX 16 /APP 10
Spells (6): Flame 90%, Conjure Elemental 90%, Control 90%, Heal 90%, Dull 80%, Wall 80%
Skills*: Persuade 56%, Knowledge - Academic Lore 60%, Listen 55%. Dodge 60%, Staff 70%

I gave him some Dodge and Staff 'cause I imagine a Wizzard also capable to fight in melee (he has +1D4 Damage Modifier!).
*I reported only the skills I added points.

Brand is:
STR 18 / CON 16 / SIZ 16 / INT 9 / POW 9 / DEX 14 /APP 10
Skills: Repair 33%, First Aid 70%, Ttrack 60%, Climb 60%, Dodge 60%, Sword 90%, Bow 80%, Shield 90%, Brawl 60%, Grapple 60%.
For him I suffer the lack of intellicence and a quite poor Personal Point Pool..

Katja is:
STR 15 / CON 16 / SIZ 12 / INT 15 / POW 10 / DEX 17 /APP 13 -> I used the 2D6+6 system
Skills: Disguise 50%, Sleight of Hand 65%, Listen 55%, Climb 55%, Hide 65%, Stealth 65%, Dodge 90%, Bow 80%, Sword 70%.
Creating her I tought DEX would have a bigger impact for such kind of character but it's not..damage and chance to hit isn't related at all to DEX and Dodge is just DEXx2.

So..even if i cleared many doubs (expecialy about magic) I still have many! For example: my brute force character has impressive combat skills (compared with some foes I found in the manual) but he has only the base % in Throw, even if he has high STR and DEX, the two characteristic I think are more closly related in performing that kind of task. My Thief also worry me: if I want that kind of skill levels I have to give up Research, Gaming, First Aid, Fast Talk and if she find a Staff to fight with she has only the base chance (25%) to use it properly..It seems akward to me. 
May be I should add the skill category bonus!

 

 

Edited December 27, 2024 by Albert

[Atgxtg]

2 hours ago, Albert said:

Hello everyone.
An up-date to my adventure in creating characters.

First I tryed a little session with the "power characters" I made but, even they have many points in combat skills (and in magic too!) they died quickly agains a cupple of soldiers (well, facing them unarmed was a very bad idea, punished with quite unluky rolls..).

Uh yeah. Characters in BRP games are pretty fragile out of armor. Even the "high level" ones. 

BTW how good were the soldiers?

 

2 hours ago, Albert said:

Then, wile I'm working on balancing them to start the adventure again I found BRP 4th edition; there I got really helpfuly and clear guide to character creation and campaign settings. So, here my choises and the characters.

Campaign power level: Heroic
Points Pool: 325+(INTx15)

Aaron, the Wizzard got 610 pts, Brand, the Warrior got 460 and Katja (new character), the Thief got 550.

Aaron is:
STR 13 / CON 14 / SIZ 12 / INT 16 / POW 19 / DEX 16 /APP 10
Spells (6): Flame 90%, Conjure Elemental 90%, Control 90%, Heal 90%, Dull 80%, Wall 80%
Skills*: Persuade 56%, Knowledge - Academic Lore 60%, Listen 55%. Dodge 60%, Staff 70%

I gave him some Dodge and Staff 'cause I imagine a Wizzard also capable to fight in melee (he has +1D4 Damage Modifier!).
*I reported only the skills I added points.

He might be capable of it, but probably shouldn't do it as a first choice. He's probably not as good in melee as he is with magic, or as well protected as the warrior types. 

2 hours ago, Albert said:

Brand is:
STR 18 / CON 16 / SIZ 16 / INT 9 / POW 9 / DEX 14 /APP 10
Skills: Repair 33%, First Aid 70%, Ttrack 60%, Climb 60%, Dodge 60%, Sword 90%, Bow 80%, Shield 90%, Brawl 60%, Grapple 60%.
For him I suffer the lack of intellicence and a quite poor Personal Point Pool..

Yeah, but he is going to be tough in combat, assuming he has some armor. 

2 hours ago, Albert said:

Katja is:
STR 15 / CON 16 / SIZ 12 / INT 15 / POW 10 / DEX 17 /APP 13 -> I used the 2D6+6 system
Skills: Disguise 50%, Sleight of Hand 65%, Listen 55%, Climb 55%, Hide 65%, Stealth 65%, Dodge 90%, Bow 80%, Sword 70%.
Creating her I tought DEX would have a bigger impact for such kind of character but it's not..damage and chance to hit isn't related at all to DEX and Dodge is just DEXx2.
 

Yes, DEX by itself isn't a game changer. If you use certain options such as Strike Ranks and Skill Category modifiers it becomes more important. But it all depends on what options you use. 

Going first can be a significant advantage though, since it's quite possible to take someone out of a fight with your first attack. 

2 hours ago, Albert said:

So..even if i cleared many doubs (expecialy about magic) I still have many! For example: my brute force character has impressive combat skills (compared with some foes I found in the manual) but he has only the base % in Throw, even if he has high STR and DEX, the two characteristic I think are more closly related in performing that kind of task.

Yeah but what does he have to use Throw for? It's usually not a vital skill. As for STR and DEX meaning something, well that's where skill category modifiers come in - if you use them. They won't add a lot though, probably round 5-10%. 

2 hours ago, Albert said:

My Thief also worry me: if I want that kind of skill levels I have to give up Research, Gaming, First Aid, Fast Talk and if she find a Staff to fight with she has only the base chance (25%) to use it properly..It seems akward to me. 

Why would she want to use a staff when she has Sword at 70%? Remember, you don't get any bonuses for being a "thief" or "acrobat" or some such, you get whatever you put your points into. She is an expert with a sword, so why not stick with that? 

2 hours ago, Albert said:

 

May be I should add the skill category bonus!

It would help to make the characteristic scores more significant. 

 

[Mugen]

That's a problem I have with BRP : skills are usually very narrowly defined and completely unrelated with each other.

I prefer to have a smaller number of skills (12 at most) with broad definition, and specialties that adds to the skill, to reflect that a character is better at a specific aspect of a skill (for instance, Melee 60% and Sword +15% : if the character uses a sword he has an effective skill of 75%, and with any other weapon he only has 60%).

[Atgxtg]

1 hour ago, Mugen said:

That's a problem I have with BRP : skills are usually very narrowly defined and completely unrelated with each other.

Old RQ was better at that with most melee skills defualting to another melee skill at half. 

1 hour ago, Mugen said:

I prefer to have a smaller number of skills (12 at most) with broad definition, and specialties that adds to the skill, to reflect that a character is better at a specific aspect of a skill

The James Bond RPG was like that. There were 24 skills in total (one of which the PCs couldn't take) and most could allow for a specialty where the character got a bonus. So after a few missions all the PCs had every skill. They wouldn't be good at every skill but at least they had every skill. Which meant the GM didn't have to  worry if the players had the skills needed to fly a plane or deactivate a bomb or whatever.  Which was very helpful when it came time to design missions. 

1 hour ago, Mugen said:

l(for instance, Melee 60% and Sword +15% : if the character uses a sword he has an effective skill of 75%, and with any other weapon he only has 60%).

That was something I liked about the the BTRC game systems. Skills had skill-subskill-special. So you could so something like Melee 50% (Sword +10%: Gladius +5%.).  

[Albert]

4 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Uh yeah. Characters in BRP games are pretty fragile out of armor. Even the "high level" ones. 

BTW how good were the soldiers?

Soldiers: STR 13 / CON 13 / SIZ 13 / INT 12 / POW 10 / DEX 10 /APP 10
Sword: 65% - Bow 55% - Dodge 30% -Hard Leather Armor (-2 dmg)

The adventurers found three of them on their path; the patrol didn't saw them so they decided (what a bad idea..) to ambush.
The Wizzard killed one of them from distance with a Frost level 3 spell, then the Warrior jumped out of the woods trying to knock down one of the remaining but he rolled a 100! So he fall prone (and got injuried, 3 dmg) and in a turn was hit to death. The magician try to cast another Frost (level 3) spell but he deal poor poor damage (6!!) so they katched him.

4 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

He might be capable of it, but probably shouldn't do it as a first choice. He's probably not as good in melee as he is with magic, or as well protected as the warrior types. 

You're right, may be I can low a bit.
 

5 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Yeah, but he is going to be tough in combat, assuming he has some armor. 
Yes, DEX by itself isn't a game changer. If you use certain options such as Strike Ranks and Skill Category modifiers it becomes more important. But it all depends on what options you use. 
Going first can be a significant advantage though, since it's quite possible to take someone out of a fight with your first attack. 
Yeah but what does he have to use Throw for? It's usually not a vital skill. As for STR and DEX meaning something, well that's where skill category modifiers come in - if you use them. They won't add a lot though, probably round 5-10%. 
Why would she want to use a staff when she has Sword at 70%? Remember, you don't get any bonuses for being a "thief" or "acrobat" or some such, you get whatever you put your points into. She is an expert with a sword, so why not stick with that? 
It would help to make the characteristic scores more significant. 

Using Skill Category Bonuses has change the things significantly for all the aspects above.
I saw how DEX and INT are important so I decided to re-roll Brand (now he got a surname and he's Brand New 😅).
I like the outcome a lot, 'cause he's more balanced: he has 1 HP less and his DB is only 1D4 (just for 1 pt!, but I think it's ok), 505 points to spend in skills and goos Skill Category Bonuses (Comunication +3, Manipulation +11, Mental +3, Perception +6, Physical +9, Combat, +11).

[Albert]

35 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

That was something I liked about the the BTRC game systems. Skills had skill-subskill-special. So you could so something like Melee 50% (Sword +10%: Gladius +5%.).  

What BTRC is?
It seems interesting for my purposes!

[Mugen]

7 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

The James Bond RPG was like that. There were 24 skills in total (one of which the PCs couldn't take) and most could allow for a specialty where the character got a bonus. So after a few missions all the PCs had every skill. They wouldn't be good at every skill but at least they had every skill. Which meant the GM didn't have to  worry if the players had the skills needed to fly a plane or deactivate a bomb or whatever.  Which was very helpful when it came time to design missions. 

That was something I liked about the the BTRC game systems. Skills had skill-subskill-special. So you could so something like Melee 50% (Sword +10%: Gladius +5%.).  

James Bond is also a good exemple for a system where skills ans characteristics have more interaction than BRP, as your success chance is basically equal to a characteristic multiplied by a skill level. French Reve de Dragon (translated in english as Reves, the Dream Ouroboros) had a similar system, but with a number of skills akin to RQ...

Revolution D100 only uses 12 to 16 skills. "Specialties" are treated like "Traits", which give +30% to the character when they apply. For instance, "Sword Expert" could be a Trait, and add +30% when fighting with a sword.

Trudwang is a more recent game than BTRC games that uses skill trees. It's a d20 roll-under system which has its roots in 1980s Magic World through Drakkar och Demoner, like Dragonbane. Too bad its core system is so simplistic, with only binary d20 rolls, and not even critical successes, except for Magic. Its combat/initiative/actions system is very detailed, though.

@Albert BTRC is short for Blacksburg Tactical Research Center, an RPG company that started publishing games in the late 80s.

 

Edited December 28, 2024 by Mugen

[Atgxtg]

9 hours ago, Albert said:

What BTRC is?
It seems interesting for my purposes!

BTRC or Blacksburg Tactical Research Center, is't a game, but a game company, owned and operated by Greg Porter, a very create RPG author. Greg's written several games including (at least) three RPG lines: TImelords, CORPS, and EABA. I recommend going to Drivethru RPG and checking out some of his free stuff.

Oh, and one of the interesting things about Greg's RPGS is that he tends to use real world data to determine game stat values. So if you want to write up a new gun, sword, tan, etc. into game terms his game will have some rules for doing so, and you won't have to eyeball it. The weapon design rules in Stuff! are particularly nice, since they cut out most of the math.. It mostly comes down to the size and tech level of the weapon determining the damage, and then taking modifiers that reflect the weapon's characteristics that  adjust the damage. For instance if you give a weapon a large ammo capacity without increasing it's mass then the bullets must be smaller and lighter, so the weapon will do less damage.  If, on the other hand, the weapon is single shot, then it it firing a larger, heavier, bullet and so does a little more damage. Weapons that can do automatic fire also tend to do less damage as they must be more robust for their mass than weapons hat only fire one shot per trigger pull. There are dozens of modifier like that so you can match a real world weapon, or create something new, and it will work alongside everything else.

 

Edited December 28, 2024 by Atgxtg

[Atgxtg]

4 hours ago, Mugen said:

James Bond is also a good exemple for a system where skills ans characteristics have more interaction than BRP, as your success chance is basically equal to a characteristic multiplied by a skill level. French Reve de Dragon (translated in english as Reves, the Dream Ouroboros) had a similar system, but with a number of skills akin to RQ...

No, actually it characteristic plus skill level multiplied by an Ease Factor. But otherwise you're on target.

But one of the reasons why Bond can get away with such a small skill list is due to the relatively narrow focus of the RPG. You sort of know what sort of skills your are going to need in a James Bond adventure. Driving and Hand-to-Hand Combat, yes, Mechanical Engineering and Basket Weaving, not so much. And the game cheats a bit with both abilities (the skills PCs should have taken but didn't) and fields of experience (a catch all term for anything not covered). And it works for Bond, where you need hyper-competent agents.

 

You can do something similar in BRP games, if you let the players know what sorts of skills will be needed in a campaign ans which ones won't. The thing with most BRP games though is that players will select skills that should be important for their character concept, but might not be useful in the campaign, unless the GM goes out of thier way to incoprate those skills, which they should since the player invested so many of their chargen points into it. Now if the PC is a soldier, or a doctor then those skills will probably be useful in most campaigns, but if they are a florist, probably not so much. But the style of the campaign and the PCs choices will make some skills more useful than others. Library Use is vastly more important in Call of Cthulhu than is just about any other RPG. Because the game and setting make it so. 

You can use a short skill list in a BRP game, it just that most BRP games tend to have very open ended skill selection , and don't emphasis any particular skills over the others, so you end up with a wide assortment. It's more of a issue with modern day settings due to all the new technical skills we have. It's less of an issue with BRP games in less technologically advanced settings where a lot more of the skill choices are essentially lateral moves. That is usually doesn't matter if you hit the opponents with sword, spear, axe or club. It's only in our modern ultra specilizaed world where this becomes crucial to be able to function. 

 

4 hours ago, Mugen said:

Revolution D100 only uses 12 to 16 skills. "Specialties" are treated like "Traits", which give +30% to the character when they apply. For instance, "Sword Expert" could be a Trait, and add +30% when fighting with a sword.

Okay, maybe. In such games it comes down to the value and cost of traits vs. rasing the main skill. 

4 hours ago, Mugen said:

Trudwang is a more recent game than BTRC games that uses skill trees. It's a d20 roll-under system which has its roots in 1980s Magic World through Drakkar och Demoner, like Dragonbane. Too bad its core system is so simplistic, with only binary d20 rolls, and not even critical successes, except for Magic. Its combat/initiative/actions system is very detailed, though.

Is is more recent than CORPS or EABA?

Ironically, one of the best skill tree systems I ever saw was in first edition Paranoia. Ironic because it was in a RPG where it wasn't needed or even helpful. Kind of like how COC has the most detail firearm rules of any BRP game, yet firearms aren't very effective against most Mthos nasties.  

4 hours ago, Mugen said:

@Albert BTRC is short for Blacksburg Tactical Research Center, an RPG company that started publishing games in the late 80s.

 

Mid-80s. It's mostly a one man operation too. 

[Mugen]

@Atgxtg yes, Trudvang was published in the second half of the 2010s.

[Atgxtg]

23 minutes ago, Mugen said:

@Atgxtg yes, Trudvang was published in the second half of the 2010s.

And EABA in...2002.  Now I'm feeling old. EABA's old enough to drink and vote.

There are other recent broad field skill games, too. Morphidius' Star Trek. And both LUGTrek and Decipher Trek had "enterprise skills' where some commply used skills were combined into a single skill. Thus "Shipboard Systems" with a specialty could replace a dozen or more skills from the more BRPish FASATrek.

The trick is in either limiting or combining the skills needed in play. It's just that when you do so you usually need to add in something to allow for character individuality. That was one of the other things with the Bond RPG. You could have two characters with the same characteristics, skills, height, weight, etc. but still differentiate them with weaknesses, previous experience, and fields of experience. 

It could even work in COC if you  just brought back and liberally apply the related skill rule from RQ. So if someone has Handgun at 90% they probably know they way around a rifle. And an airplane mechanic can probably fix an automobile engine. 

I think the problem is that in BRP the individuality was in skills. So players tend to tuck away a few points in some career related skills that might not be of much use in play. 

That plus some adventures tend to use some obscure skill as a sort of "zinger" to prevent the PCs from solving a problem (or solving it easily). So a author puts the spell to protect against the  Mummy's curse in Sanskrit, and then doesn't have to worry about the PCs being able to use it. So after the adventure some  PC will study Sanskrit, to be ready in the future, but next time the author will put the spell in Aramaic. 

 

[g33k]

On 12/28/2024 at 7:36 AM, Atgxtg said:

... if you want to write up a new gun, sword, tan, etc. into game terms his game will have some rules for doing so ...

 

🤣

Now I'm envisioning game-rules for sunshine vs. UV-bed, coconut-oil vs. bare-skin, shea-butter vs. aloe gel aftercare, etc...