About variable AP

[Lloyd Dupont]

What do you think of it?

I like that there is some variation to it... but it's very variable!

Any ideas or homebrew rule?

 

[Mugen]

You could use 2 dice for a less linear value.

1d6 becomes 2d3-1 or 1d3+1d4-1, for instance.

[Lloyd Dupont]

mmm... yes.... I see....

I am also having an armorer perk where one roll twice and take best...

[g33k]

In many ways, I think "variable armor" is (at least in principle) better than variable damage weapons.  Each does something very similar, mechanically.  But "weak spot in the armor" explanation for weapons landing big blows is... not entirely satisfying, tbh.  At least, if the armor-value is rolled per-hit, that "weak spot" is game-mechanically placed with the armor!  Then "damage to the armor" can become lower dice, etc.  Your 1d6 armor has badly-broken straps on the left side, and a big gash over the abdomen... you roll 1d6-2, or 1d4-1, or some such.

But let's face it:  if you're unarmored, and somebody hits you with a large sharp piece of metal, the odds of you taking a virtual scratch (a rolled "1" for damage) & continuing essentially unimpaired ... those odds are very low!

What if (at least most of) the variability of _all_ weapons were held down to (say) 1d4 or so, or even eliminated; just  use a bigger +N for the  bigger weapons?
Dagger 1d4, shortsword 1d4+2, longsword 1d4+4, etc; or even dagger +3, shortsword +5, longsword +7, etc?  The "naked" (unarmored) combatant might be more-reasonable about ideas like running the fuck away, hiding, surrendering, etc.


The other game-mechanical element I'd want to look at is the bell-curve from summing dice.  I expect everybody knows the  "2d6 = 2-12"  bell centered on "7."  That's 1d6 + 1d6.
Less-commonly mentioned is that  "1d6 - 1d6"  creates an identical-odds / identical-shape bell-curve between -5/+5, centered on "0" ... and so I'd want to think seriously about how keeping *both* variables in play -- add vari-attack / subtract vari-soak -- instead of leaning on one or the other, would work out (my gut says that belling toward zero damage will make for longer & more dragged-out fights).

Edited December 13, 2024 by g33k

[Atgxtg]

4 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

What do you think of it?

It's a mixed bag. There is some sense to it in terms of variable coverage, but it tends to be too variable. Generally getting less armor is more significant than getting more (i.e. 6 points vs. 5 armor as opposed to 6 points vs. 7 armor).

The other problem, IMO is that the average tends to be much lower than the fixed values. Plate stopping 1D10/1D10+2 vs. 8 points fixed.

Plus it can lead to some silly results, especially with more advanced armor.

4 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

I like that there is some variation to it... but it's very variable!

Exactlly.

4 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

Any ideas or homebrew rule?

 

I believe I posted an alternate table along the lines of Mugen's post. The idea was that I used two dice with the average value being the sam as the fixedvlaue. Plate was 2d6+1. I also toyed with 2d4+3 to make it less variable, and 2D8-1 to make it more variable.  So you could suit to taste or even account for the quality (or lack] of the  armor. Like so:

1  [1D3-1] or 1 point

2 [1D3]

3 [1D4]

4 [2D3]

5 [2D4]

6  [2D4=1] or  [1D6+1D4]

7 [2D6]

8 [2D6+1] or [1D8+1D6]

9 [2D8]

10 [2D8+1] or [1D10+1D8]

11 [2D10]

     

 

[Lloyd Dupont]

28 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

I believe I posted an alternate table along the lines of Mugen's post. The idea was that I used two dice with the average value being the sam as the fixedvlaue. Plate was 2d6+1. I also toyed with 2d4+3 to make it less variable, and 2D8-1 to make it more variable.  So you could suit to taste or even account for the quality (or lack] of the  armor

Yea... a similar idea crossed my mind.

Are you using variable armor or fixed armor usually btw? Any favorite?

[Atgxtg]

32 minutes ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

Yea... a similar idea crossed my mind.

Are you using variable armor or fixed armor usually btw? Any favorite?

Both. It depends on it I use hit locations.

If I use general hit points then I tend prefer variable armor, but if I use hit locations then I want fixed armor as there is some overlap between variable armor and vital locations. That said I almost always prefer fixed armor if I'm using modern weapons - otherwise APCs and tanks become too fragile. I don't want a .22 LR round punching through a tank because you rolled good damage (5) but low armor (3). 

There are other ways of handling armor but they would be very different from BRP. For instance some games use armor to reduce the damage dice before they are rolled, which can be great when firearms are used or for vehicles. But it would be very differnt from BRP, and probably not any more realistic. 

 

But firearms/modern day is usually where I find fixed armor to be vital. That might be partially due to PCs needing every break they can get in Call of Cthulhu. An 8 point vest against an eldritch horror is a little kinder than 1D10+2. They are still Byakhee bait, but at least the die feeling that it's only the universe against them, not the dice and the Keeper.

 

 

[Lloyd Dupont]

3 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

But firearms/modern day is usually where I find fixed armor to be vital. That might be partially due to PCs needing every break they can get in Call of Cthulhu. An 8 point vest against an eldritch horror is a little kinder than 1D10+2. They are still Byakhee bait, but at least the die feeling that it's only the universe against them, not the dice and the Keeper.

But is the keeper really on their side, mmm? I wonder... 😄

[soltakss]

On 12/13/2024 at 10:03 AM, Lloyd Dupont said:

What do you think of it?

I used to think it was great, then I played a game that used it. Now I think that it is horrible, far too swingy for me.

Edited December 15, 2024 by soltakss

[Atgxtg]

On 12/13/2024 at 10:59 AM, Lloyd Dupont said:

But is the keeper really on their side, mmm? I wonder... 😄

What side should the keeper be on?

More seriously CoC is an odd RPG on many levels. It has some of the most detailed and comprehensive firearms data of any BRP related game, none of which probably matters since so many Mythos beings take minimum damage or are totally immune to conventional weapons.  

[Lloyd Dupont]

3 hours ago, soltakss said:

In used to think it was great, then I played a game that used it. Now I think that it is horrible, far too swingy for me.

You might be onto something there 🙂