Pendragon 6E vs. Pendragon 5.2E/Paladin/Prince Valiant

[MidnightBlue]

New to the site and have a question.  I have Pendragon 5.2E, Paladin, and Prince Valiant RPGs.  I see there is now a 6th edition of Pendragon.  How different is the new edition?  Do the older books and supplements still work with the new edition?  I'm not in a position to "upgrade" at this moment, but curious how different they are?

Thanks one and all.

[mandrill_one]

Hi MidnightBlue, welcome to the forum!
In practice, just keep in mind that all Pendragon editions are broadly compatible. Only 1st edition has some substantial rule differences from subsequent ones, but supplements written for 1st edition are still useable with later ones. However, most of them have been re-published or re-written extensively for use with subsequent editions, so there's really no reason to use them.

99% of supplements and adventures are playable as they are, with any edition, provided that they are used in the correct period of the campaign. Ruleswise, the differences are quite small and there's little point in converting. However, the 6th edition core rulebook provides some notes to convert 5.x edition characters to the latest ruleset. Nothing really world-shattering.

One of the main differences between editions is the starting point of the campaign, which also sets the tone for the first years of play:

2nd ed.: never published, doesn't exist.

1st, 3rd and 4th eds.: the "standard setting" is the height of Arthur's reign (year 530), with the Enchantment of Britain in full effect and Romance, Chivalry and Round Table as fully developed parts of a knight's life. High chivalry play is the standard.

5th, 5.1 and 5.2 eds.: the "standard setting" is the Anarchy period, immediately after Uther's death and 25 years before Arthur's ascent to the throne (year 485). All the civilized accomplishments of Arthur's reign are just a glimpse in the eye of the most enlightened knights (if any). Gritty combat and "might makes right" is the standard.

6th ed.: the "standard setting" is the drawing of the Sword from the Stone and beginning of Arthur's reign (year 510). You get to experience the struggle to reach a higher degree of civilization.

Of course, when they reach the same game year, all Editions present more or less the same world and worldviews to the Players.

So, I would suggest that you use and enjoy all the material you have for the 5.x edition, without any worry about the new edition. You can use with these rules all the supplements and adventures written for the 3rd and 4th editions (these two are the same, repackaged in 4th). If you want complete rules for a more advanced period, get 6th edition. If you want complete rules for Romance and the like, get the 4th ed (at least, until the new edition of the Great Pendragon Campaign gets published).

That said, 6th ed. is really nice, and the rules are a bit more polished than in previous editions. Moreover, it's the "definitive" edition as Greg wanted it to be, so it's a bit like his legacy to the gaming world... Worth the price just for this!

And finally, by all means get the Great Pendragon Campaign (GPC): it is an 80-year campaign, compatible with all editions (but written for the 5.x ones) and gives you a huge wealth of materials to play and experiment with the setting. It has also a dedicated supplement to start with the Uther period! As I said above, it will get a new edition, in multiple volumes, but it will be years from now. Right now, you can get this absolute gem of a book for a really affordable price.

 

[Morien]

6 hours ago, mandrill_one said:

5th, 5.1 and 5.2 eds.: the "standard setting" is the Anarchy period, immediately after Uther's death and 25 years before Arthur's ascent to the throne (year 485). All the civilized accomplishments of Arthur's reign are just a glimpse in the eye of the most enlightened knights (if any). Gritty combat and "might makes right" is the standard.

Nitpick: 5th edition (in its various forms) is starting in Uther Period, not in Anarchy Period. Book of Uther pushes the date back to 480, at the start of Uther's reign, too.

You could argue that the 3e/4e + The Boy King (3e or 4e depending if it is the 1st edition or the 2nd edition of The Boy King) starts from Anarchy, even though it is mainly just the Forest Sauvage section of the Great Pendragon Campaign. The detailed yearly synopsis doesn't start until 510, though.

Just to add, the 4e rulebook is basically a repackaged 3e rulebook + 3e Knights Adventurous (which expanded homeland options and had descriptions of various counties and kingdoms, which was quite useful) + rules for magic. There will be a rulebook for magic in 6e (Codex Mirabilis), but as things stand at the moment, 4th edition is the only one with a published rules for magic. This is not a big deal, IMHO, as the Player-characters are knights who do not use magic, but if the Gamemaster wanted to have that option, a pdf of 4e is very cheap. And it has the Adventure of the White Horse, which is nice.

Edited December 18, 2024 by Morien

[Morien]

On 12/16/2024 at 6:52 PM, MidnightBlue said:

New to the site and have a question.  I have Pendragon 5.2E, Paladin, and Prince Valiant RPGs.  I see there is now a 6th edition of Pendragon.  How different is the new edition?  Do the older books and supplements still work with the new edition?  I'm not in a position to "upgrade" at this moment, but curious how different they are?

Apart from everything else, I'd say that the major differences are as follows (cut and paste with some light edit from an answer I gave in the Discord some while back):

There is a conversion guide at the end of 6th edition CRB. But I'd say big differences are (in no particular order):

1. Merged Skills
Generally not a huge issue with weapons as the PKs usually have like Lance, Sword and Dagger, each of which is in a different category anyway, so easy to convert. There are some others, like Heraldry now being part of Recognize, etc. Some skills are dropped altogether, like Swimming and Boating. (Thanks to Kebrel for the comment in the Discord.)

2. Inherited Glory is 25%, not 10%
This causes a bit of a bump in the starting glory, closer to 1000 than 250 as it was in 5.2. 

3. Battle
You fight the enemy for X number of combat rounds per battle round, based on how aggressive you are. You gain glory based on the enemies you actually defeat, not by bullying peasants. Likely results in less Glory per battle, especially for huge battles. In other words, if you want to be a big hero, you have to do big hero stuff rather than just show up and survive.

4. Movement Rate
This is now scaled so that it is around 15-20 usually, and it is used instead of DEX in most of the dodge type stuff in combat, to give it a role.

5. Starting skill values
Many starting skill values depend on your starting DEX or APP.

6. Melee combat distances
Now it matters if you have a long poking stick (spear) or if you want to get up close and personal with a dagger.

7. Passion changes
New passions, passion courts with limits, slightly different inspiration rolling (and +5 Inspiration bonus instead of +10, except for Adoration). 

8. Chivalrous is now 96 points, not 80 (Greg already errataed that in the Nocturnal Forum a decade ago, but now it is published)

9. Fixed Childbirth and Child Survival tables (Finally!)

10. Armor in parts
Padding + armor + helmet = armor outfit
Some changes/new options in armor, but more or less the same, at least at the lower end.

11. Chargen from 14 years onwards
You start from 14 years old, and then age them year by year until they are 21 (or ready to be knighted, if the GM allows younger chars). This is similar but not the same how Paladin (and 3e/4e Pendragon) does it. 

12. Horsemanship skill acts as a cap on weapon skill when mounted
This makes Horsemanship skill matter, and acts as a break for Sword Specialization. Combined with the higher starting skills values (generally around 5 rather than 1-3 or 0 for weapon skills), this tends to mean that the 6e characters are a bit more widely capable, but not as specialized in 20+ skills at the height of their careers.

Also, if you go to the Chaosium webpage, you can find the free Pendragon Quickstart, which has a quick summary of the rules and a short adventure: The Tournament of the Sword.

Edited December 18, 2024 by Morien