jackleg2010 Posted January 3 Posted January 3 Back in the day, the original name of the product was RuneQuest 6. Afterwards Chaosium took back the license to the name, and it was renamed Mythras. I was wondering if there was any plans to release any Glorathian material for RQ6? If so, through which company, as Runequest material was owned by various companies at the time.
Raleel Posted January 3 Posted January 3 There are no plans that I am aware of to release anything officially Glorantha via Mythras, and as an admin on the Mythras discord and Mythras subreddit, I figure I would know. Chaosium and The Design Mechanism have no professional relarinship that I am aware of. you can find extensive unofficial Mythras Glorantha material at https://notesfrompavis.blog/ maintained by Hannu. It's the best source for Mythras Glorantha on the net by far.
jackleg2010 Posted January 3 Author Posted January 3 I meant, before the name change, not currently. Sorry, if my question was not clear enough.
lawrence.whitaker Posted January 3 Posted January 3 (edited) One of the planned releases for RuneQuest 6 was 'Adventures in Glorantha'. We released a demo of the book as a limited edition 50 print run in the summer of 2015 at GenCon. But that was the only Gloranthan publication. Edited January 3 by lawrence.whitaker Got the date wrong, doh! 2 The Design Mechanism: Publishers of Mythras
David Scott Posted January 3 Posted January 3 See: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/catalogue/publishers/design-mechanism/runequest-6-adventures-in-glorantha/ One went on ebay for over $1000! 1 ----- Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/
jackleg2010 Posted January 3 Author Posted January 3 Okay, that is what I was wondering. For over a $1k for a demo book on eBay? I hope the buyer is using the book to run a great RQ game. 1 1
SDLeary Posted January 4 Posted January 4 So, going to be waiting for a bit to have NobleKnight to fulfill this item on my wish list? 🙃 SDLeary 1
g33k Posted January 4 Posted January 4 On 1/2/2025 at 8:40 PM, jackleg2010 said: Back in the day, the original name of the product was RuneQuest 6. Afterwards Chaosium took back the license to the name, and it was renamed Mythras. I was wondering if there was any plans to release any Glorathian material for RQ6? If so, through which company, as Runequest material was owned by various companies at the time. The "RQ6" based "RQ:AiG" project was ended when Chaosium took the license back in-house, and Chaosium instead built the new edition of RQ based on a RQ2-centered chassis; that's the game being developed these days. I don't think there were any specific plans announced for followup publications (should the The Design Mechanism / RQ:AiG project have moved forward)... but I presume both TDM & Chaosium had ideas for future publications. However: "RuneQuest" was not "owned by various companies at the time" -- it was owned by Chaosium, licensed to TDM (prior licensor Mongoose; before that, AvalonHill; there was never a "various... at (a) time" -- they were one-by-one sequential licenses (there was a period where AH had (I think) actual "ownership of" the title/tm to "RuneQuest" (independent of the BRP/d100 mechanics & the world of Glorantha) and was going to issue an unrelated (non-BRP/non-Glorantha) RPG titled "RuneQuest: Slayers" (later abandoned by AH, reverted to the authors, and released online as the free "RuneSlayers") ... but we are now deeply into the weeds of trivia !!!). IF TDM wanted to do something with Glorantha, that'd be an all-new project & something they'd discuss directly with Chaosium, and those companies would issue a press release if&when they were ready (honestly, I think it unlikely from both sides' perspectives: a muddying-the-waters of both their respective brands). Other published (non-RQ) Glorantha's include: 13th Age in Glorantha (based on the "13th Age" game-engine by Heinsoo & Tweet), jointly available from Pelgrane & Chaosium HeroQuest:Glorantha by Robin Laws (originally from Greg Stafford's Issaries Inc, then Chaosium; but now unavailable because the "HeroQuest" (tm) was sold to MiltonBradley for their popular boardgame)... these game-mechanics being revised & reissued under the "QuestWorlds" label (expected Feb 2025), but without any Glorantha being included by default (a Glorantha-specific "genre pack" supplement being likely to follow) 2 computer games, King of Dragon Pass & Six Ages: Ride like the Wind. 1 C'es ne pas un .sig
SDLeary Posted January 5 Posted January 5 (edited) 8 hours ago, g33k said: However: "RuneQuest" was not "owned by various companies at the time" -- it was owned by Chaosium, licensed to TDM (prior licensor Mongoose; before that, AvalonHill; there was never a "various... at (a) time" -- they were one-by-one sequential licenses (there was a period where AH had (I think) actual "ownership of" the title/tm to "RuneQuest" (independent of the BRP/d100 mechanics & the world of Glorantha) and was going to issue an unrelated (non-BRP/non-Glorantha) RPG titled "RuneQuest: Slayers" (later abandoned by AH, reverted to the authors, and released online as the free "RuneSlayers") ... but we are now deeply into the weeds of trivia !!!). Emphasis mine. [pedantry!] Kindof. At the time it was licensed to TDM (and Mongoose before that), it was owned by Issaries (ie. Greg). [/pedantry!]🙃 SDLeary Edited January 5 by SDLeary Clarity 1
g33k Posted January 5 Posted January 5 12 hours ago, SDLeary said: ... [pedantry!] Kindof. At the time it was licensed to TDM (and Mongoose before that), it was owned by Issaries (ie. Greg). [/pedantry!]🙃 I believe that during the AH interregnum, the "RuneQuest" (tm) got separated from the "Glorantha" IP. Greg owned Glorantha; Issaries pursued HW/HQ (with Robin Laws) in part because the RQ-tm was still with AH. Chaosium, for a while there, was locked out of both! (happy to be corrected if I'm mistaken (and really, as mentioned, these are some deep weeds)) C'es ne pas un .sig
SDLeary Posted January 6 Posted January 6 9 hours ago, g33k said: I believe that during the AH interregnum, the "RuneQuest" (tm) got separated from the "Glorantha" IP. Greg owned Glorantha; Issaries pursued HW/HQ (with Robin Laws) in part because the RQ-tm was still with AH. Chaosium, for a while there, was locked out of both! (happy to be corrected if I'm mistaken (and really, as mentioned, these are some deep weeds)) I believe you are right that the IP was separated, there was RQ:Slayers after all. At least as of RuneQuest II (mRQ2), the RuneQuest tm was back with Issaries (Copyright Information, p.2 mRQ2). I don't have a copy of mRQ here to check earlier attributions and licensing. SDLeary
Atgxtg Posted January 7 Posted January 7 On 1/5/2025 at 10:14 PM, SDLeary said: I believe you are right that the IP was separated, there was RQ:Slayers after all. Yes, but split more than one way. RQ went to AH in the deal made in the 80s. SO I think AH owned RQ until the failed to renew (apparently all those prayers to Arachne Solara worked, because had they renewed RQ would be in the hands of WotC/Hasbro). Then I think Chaosium split off into Chaosium (which held CoC and Strombringer), Issaries (which held Glorantha) and Green Knight (which held Pendraggon). And then over time it got more complicated as companies folded, got sold and so on. At the time of MRQ, I believe Greg/Issaries had bought up the rights to RuneQuest when they lasped, and licensed RQ and Glorantha out to Mongoose. On 1/5/2025 at 10:14 PM, SDLeary said: At least as of RuneQuest II (mRQ2), the RuneQuest tm was back with Issaries (Copyright Information, p.2 mRQ2). I don't have a copy of mRQ here to check earlier attributions and licensing. Per 2008 GM's book: RuneQuest is a trademark (TM) of Issaries, Inc. Produced under license from Issaries. All rights reserved. Printed in the UK. I think by the time of RQ6, Issaries had become or been replaced with Moon Design, which kind of merged/bought out Chaosium. I'm sure the folks at Chasoium could give a more accurate take on that. I'm note sure if the Design Mechanism had made a deal to use Glorantha or not. Considering how quickly RQ6 ended, I believe that they were probably were planning to try and get a deal similar to what Mongoose had, but the new ownership at Chaosium decided to bring RQ back themselves, which essentially killed RQ6 and gave birth to Mythras. Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.
g33k Posted January 7 Posted January 7 21 minutes ago, Atgxtg said: Yes, but split more than one way. RQ went to AH in the deal made in the 80s. SO I think AH owned RQ until the failed to renew (apparently all those prayers to Arachne Solara worked, because had they renewed RQ would be in the hands of WotC/Hasbro). Then I think Chaosium split off into Chaosium (which held CoC and Strombringer), Issaries (which held Glorantha) and Green Knight (which held Pendraggon). And then over time it got more complicated as companies folded, got sold and so on. At the time of MRQ, I believe Greg/Issaries had bought up the rights to RuneQuest when they lasped, and licensed RQ and Glorantha out to Mongoose. Per 2008 GM's book: RuneQuest is a trademark (TM) of Issaries, Inc. Produced under license from Issaries. All rights reserved. Printed in the UK. I think by the time of RQ6, Issaries had become or been replaced with Moon Design, which kind of merged/bought out Chaosium. I'm sure the folks at Chasoium could give a more accurate take on that. I'm note sure if the Design Mechanism had made a deal to use Glorantha or not. Considering how quickly RQ6 ended, I believe that they were probably were planning to try and get a deal similar to what Mongoose had, but the new ownership at Chaosium decided to bring RQ back themselves, which essentially killed RQ6 and gave birth to Mythras. TIL that Pendragon left Chaosium because that IP was collateral on a loan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Corless#Career Cordless took the Pendragon IP and used it to found Green Knight. I think the IP of "Glorantha" was personally owned by Greg; when AH/Chaosium parted ways & the Runequest(tm) went with AH, Greg founded Issaries to advance Glorantha-roleplaying. AIUI, Hasbro/WotC buying AH meant that AH no longer had any interest in other RPG's (or at least, no permission from Hasbro, who had D&D in hand and zero interest in the tiny niche that was RQ). RuneQuest was thus cancelled at AH (and (c) to the RQ:Slayers text reverted to those authors (who renamed it "RuneSlayers" and released it for free)) . I don't know if AH/WotC/Hasbro actually sold the (tm) for RQ, or if they just allowed the registration to lapse (I'm pretty sure the "HeroQuest" (tm) was allowed to lapse, and then Issaries grabbed it... I theorize that Hasbro had mandated some top-down policy of not continuing to pay USPTO for disused (tm)s ...? ) . MD didn't "replace" Issaries until 2013; it's just that MD had the actual publishing infrastructure, so Issaries worked with MD to get published. With the 4-volume "Gloranthan Classics" series & the "Guide to Glorantha" (Kickstarted but not yet published), MD had a deep history of cooperation/collaboration in actually getting books out the door. The actual "merger / buy-out" of Chaosium didn't happen until 2015, after "the Return of the Great Old Ones" (Greg & Sandy) to pull Chaosium back from the brink. n.b. with Greg (as Issaries) having "already merged" with MD in '13, it seems Greg (as one of the stock owners of Chaosium) "merging" MD+Chaosium 2 years later was an obvious direction. I'd welcome any corrections from any MD people who cared to speak up, if I've gotten anything wrong here! But this particular storyline isn't really relevant to the TDM/RQ6/Mythras element, as asked in the OP. 1 C'es ne pas un .sig
Atgxtg Posted January 8 Posted January 8 I think AH/Hasbro let the RQ license lapse too. And I'm very pleased they did. If they had decided to keep it then RQ might have suffered the fate of DragonQuest. 8 hours ago, g33k said: But this particular storyline isn't really relevant to the TDM/RQ6/Mythras element, as asked in the OP. I think it is in as so far as it shows how unlikely it was that RQ6 would have had any Glorantha stuff in the works. We don't even know how far along they were the the rulebook. Yeah, it's basically MRQ 3, so they had MRQ2 to start with, but considering how fast everything changed, doubt they have much of anything ready for supplements. What was probably good, since whatever that did have would have ad to be altered into Mythras. Plus I doubt if they had made some sort od deal with Greg, things would have ended so abruptly. But that is just speculation based on what happened and how quickly things changed. Besides, even if they did have something in the draft stage, they still couldn't release for RQ6, although with the new liscening rules, they might be able to release it for RQG. Which would seem somewhat ironic. Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.
Joerg Posted January 8 Posted January 8 3 hours ago, Atgxtg said: I think it is in as so far as it shows how unlikely it was that RQ6 would have had any Glorantha stuff in the works. We don't even know how far along they were the the rulebook. Yeah, it's basically MRQ 3, so they had MRQ2 to start with, but considering how fast everything changed, doubt they have much of anything ready for supplements. What was probably good, since whatever that did have would have ad to be altered into Mythras. I got to play part of the first scenario in the Harrek Circumnavigation campaign LOZ was writing at one of the last Tentacles conventions, with wolf pirates participating in the plunder of a temple in Teshnos, run by LOZ still under MRQ2. As far as I know a few playtesters played at least all the way to Fonrit. Obviously that was before RQ6 even was a thing, but at the very least, some scenario support for Third Age/Hero Wars Glorantha was under way, and would be nice to see in some form on the Jonstown Compendium. Telling how it is excessive verbis
lawrence.whitaker Posted January 8 Posted January 8 TDM's license first began with Issaries, and then transferred to Moon Design when they acquired Issaries properties. The license didn't change, and didn't include Gloranthan material as an explicit part of the contract. Glorantha was always a separate license to RuneQuest, and while we freely discussed what Gloranthan material would be developed for RQ6, it was always going to need an additional license agreement to cover its production - whether it had been with Issaries, Moon Design, or Chaosium. This is how the aforementioned 'Adventures in Glorantha' was actually handled. @Joerg the Harreksaga material was written for HeroQuest and under commission from Moon Design. It was never intended to be MRQ2 or RQ6. @Atgxtg the 'Adventures in Glorantha' rulebooks shows exactly how far we were into the development process: it was pretty deep, with character creation, magic systems, cult systems and creatures more or less fully developed. Further Gloranthan material was discussed informally with ideas on what would follow the AiG book, but nothing had been agreed or gone into any kind of development. And that's the story. It's not very complex and just about all of this was discussed openly at many conventions and panels (Tentacles/EternalCon, Continuum, GenCon) by myself, Pete, Jeff, Rick, Neil, and MOB at the time. And, finally, no. TDM won't be producing any material for Glorantha in the future. 1 5 The Design Mechanism: Publishers of Mythras
Atgxtg Posted January 8 Posted January 8 Thanks Loz for clearing things up. I didn't realize things were that advanced for RQ6. 44 minutes ago, lawrence.whitaker said: And, finally, no. TDM won't be producing any material for Glorantha in the future. Aw shucks. 3 Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.
soltakss Posted January 11 Posted January 11 On 1/5/2025 at 5:36 PM, g33k said: I believe that during the AH interregnum, the "RuneQuest" (tm) got separated from the "Glorantha" IP. Greg owned Glorantha; Issaries pursued HW/HQ (with Robin Laws) in part because the RQ-tm was still with AH. In the olden days we were told that RuneQuest was a bad version of Glorantha and Hero Wars was a far better model. Then we were told that Hero Wars was a bad version of Glorantha and HeroQuest was far better. Then we were told that HeroQuest was a bad version of Glorantha and RuneQuest is better. The moral of the tale is not to believe games companies when they say that their current game is better for Glorantha than other games, and just play whatever game you prefer. 3 Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here.
g33k Posted January 11 Posted January 11 1 hour ago, soltakss said: In the olden days we were told that RuneQuest was a bad version of Glorantha and Hero Wars was a far better model. Then we were told that Hero Wars was a bad version of Glorantha and HeroQuest was far better. Then we were told that HeroQuest was a bad version of Glorantha and RuneQuest is better. The moral of the tale is not to believe games companies when they say that their current game is better for Glorantha than other games, and just play whatever game you prefer. Narrative-driven systems were the New Hottness in the 'oughties, way sexy! Even a formidable game-design wizard like Stafford might have been swayed by Nimuë's lures at the time. I expect he was at least as frustrated as the fandom was, by the long absence of the ever-promised "heroquesting rules," the inadequacies of various stopgap efforts, etc. It's also worth noting that RQG is the first really "Heroic-level" edition of the game, and looks likely to be _finally_ adding explicit "heroquesting" rules, while Laws' HeroWarsQuestWorlds ruleset runs more "natively" Heroic-level. But yes, absolutely: play the game you prefer! C'es ne pas un .sig
jkallan Posted January 12 Posted January 12 23 hours ago, g33k said: It's also worth noting that RQG is the first really "Heroic-level" edition of the game, and looks likely to be _finally_ adding explicit "heroquesting" rules, while Laws' HeroWarsQuestWorlds ruleset runs more "natively" Heroic-level. I know folks dont love the Mongoose stuff (I do) but they were definitely heroic level and MRQ1 did have hero questing rules - though i know Greg had the least input on those editions.
g33k Posted January 12 Posted January 12 14 minutes ago, jkallan said: I know folks dont love the Mongoose stuff ... I do like the Nash/Whitaker stuff... MRQ2/Legend(*)/Mythras. Notsomuch MRQ1, no; neither for (most of) the setting content, nor rules implementations. (*) noting that AFAIK "Legend" is Mongoose taking MRQ2 (Pete&Loz' work) after they departed, and stripping out the Glorantha(c) content. I'm not criticizing C'es ne pas un .sig
jkallan Posted January 13 Posted January 13 4 hours ago, g33k said: I do like the Nash/Whitaker stuff... MRQ2/Legend(*)/Mythras. I believe MRQ2's Glorantha book had hero questing rules, though i think they were relatively bare bones (about half a page iirc) 1
Atgxtg Posted January 13 Posted January 13 On 1/11/2025 at 11:44 AM, soltakss said: In the olden days we were told that RuneQuest was a bad version of Glorantha and Hero Wars was a far better model. Then we were told that Hero Wars was a bad version of Glorantha and HeroQuest was far better. Then we were told that HeroQuest was a bad version of Glorantha and RuneQuest is better. Yes, and it's always that the new game they are selling is a better fit than the old game you had already bought. On 1/11/2025 at 11:44 AM, soltakss said: The moral of the tale is not to believe games companies when they say that their current game is better for Glorantha than other games, and just play whatever game you prefer. Amen. Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.
Atgxtg Posted January 13 Posted January 13 On 1/12/2025 at 12:10 PM, jkallan said: I know folks dont love the Mongoose stuff (I do) but they were definitely heroic level and MRQ1 did have hero questing rules - It's mostly due to their poor design choices in game mechanics and Glorantha, and partially due to telling Steve Perrin he didn't know how to make an RPG, and ingnoring all their playtesters who pretty much pointed out everything wrong with MRQ during the playtest. On 1/12/2025 at 12:10 PM, jkallan said: though i know Greg had the least input on those editions. No he didn't. He just licensed out the rights to Mongoose. He commented that he wouldn't have done thing they way they had. If Greg had any input Orlanth would not have has a Chaos affiliation. Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.
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