What makes a d100 RPG a BRP-d100 RPG?

[AndreJarosch]

As the topic says: 
There are plenty of d100 RPGs that were influenced by BRP. But what makes a RPG that used a d100 roll-under mechanic as it´s core a BRP-d100 RPG?

I tried to break it down: 
Characteristics in values between 3-18 (strength, constitution, size, intelligence, dexterity, power and charisma/appearance... but the names msay vary... and some can be omitted or added), which can also be multiplied by 5 to give values between 15-90%.

Skill values that are expressed as percentages and must rolled under to be successful (with Critical Success, Success, Failure and Fumble... optionally further sub-levels such as Special Success).

Skill points come from culture/origin, profession/education and hobby/personal interests... optionally also race/ethnicity and/or religion/cult.

No character classes, no levels.

Characteristics change only rarely and little.

Hitpoints maximum value rarely changes during the course of the game.

Skill values improve in small steps through use or apprenticeship (optionally also with freely chosen “experience rolls”).

Other (optional) stats of the character are also expressed in percentages (passions, relationships, etc.).

Weapons inflict random determined damage (from 1d3 - 2d10...). Armor stops part of the potential damage (usually a fixed value, but it can also be a randomly determined).

For myself it is also important that I can use an adventure from BRP-RPG A with BRP-RPG B without much effort = compatibility of stats (not all details, but in general).

[AndreJarosch]

I would love the know @ShannonAs take on this. 

[Mugen]

The most restrictive answer to this question is, I think, a game that is entirely built on the Basic Roleplaying leaflet from 1980.

It may have additional material, such as skill bonuses or multiple success levels, but it must not contradict the original BRP text.

Of course, quite a lot of Chaosium "BRP" games do not fit with this definition : StormBringer, ElfQuest, CoC 7th edition (which has percentile characteristics). Even RuneQuest 2 and RQG won't fit because of the way they treat hit points.

But if you want to make a broader definition, then you'd have to include games such as MRQ1, Mythras or Revolution D100. You might even end up including every roll-under skill-based games... 🙂

Edited January 5 by Mugen

[AndreJarosch]

14 minutes ago, Mugen said:

But if you want to make a broader definition, then you'd have to include games such as MRQ1, Mythras or Revolution D100. You might even end up including every roll-under skill-based games... 🙂

That is the reason i stated this thread: 
Where to draw the line bewteen non BRP-based "roll-under skill-based games" and BRP derived RPGs?

[Atgxtg]

2 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

As the topic says: 
There are plenty of d100 RPGs that were influenced by BRP. But what makes a RPG that used a d100 roll-under mechanic as it´s core a BRP-d100 RPG?

I tried to break it down: 
Characteristics in values between 3-18 (strength, constitution, size, intelligence, dexterity, power and charisma/appearance... but the names msay vary... and some can be omitted or added), which can also be multiplied by 5 to give values between 15-90%.

I'd say using STR, CON, SIZ, INT , POW,  DEX and APP/CHA as the characteristics. SIZ in particular. 

2 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

Skill values that are expressed as percentages and must rolled under to be successful (with Critical Success, Success, Failure and Fumble... optionally further sub-levels such as Special Success).

Yes, although I'd say that divide by 5 and roll against 1d20 should count here as well, the same as with x5% above for characteristics. 

Probably should have at least four different success levels (critical, success, failure, fumble)

2 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

Skill points come from culture/origin, profession/education and hobby/personal interests... optionally also race/ethnicity and/or religion/cult.

Usually, although many BRP games use that as a guideline rather than a rule. That is you get a bunch of points that should be spent  on certain skills but players have a lot of leeway.

Also competency is usually on a absolute scale not a relative one. That is someone with 70% skill is considered good at something, and that doesn't change as the PCs advance. Unlike many level based games where competency is relative.

2 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

No character classes, no levels.

No but professions and skill expertise levels (apprentice, journeyman, master, etc.) can be used to denote relative competency. 

2 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

Characteristics change only rarely and little.

I don't think that is true. POW changes quite frequently in most fantasy BRP games. Everything cane change quite easily in Superworld. 

2 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

Hitpoints maximum value rarely changes during the course of the game.

Generally true.

2 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

Skill values improve in small steps through use or apprenticeship (optionally also with freely chosen “experience rolls”).

Yes. Usually with a die roll or small increase. The most I've seen was Stormbringer's 1D10%, but that was back when RQ2 was using 5% increments. Now it is usually 1D6% or less, with the option of taking a fix percentage for those who don't trust random rolls.

2 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

Other (optional) stats of the character are also expressed in percentages (passions, relationships, etc.).

No necessarily,sometimes the optional stats are on a scale similar to characteristics. MOV, Magic Points, etc 

2 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

Weapons inflict random determined damage (from 1d3 - 2d10...). Armor stops part of the potential damage (usually a fixed value, but it can also be a randomly determined).

I can think of one possible exception, but it was a short lived exception and somewhat iffy- The Morrow Project. It's "Role Playing Expansion" essentially tacked on the RQ2/BRP skill system to the Morrow Project, with at least some help/approval from Chaosium. It made the game practically BRP but with different characteristics, and damage system. 

2 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

For myself it is also important that I can use an adventure from BRP-RPG A with BRP-RPG B without much effort = compatibility of stats (not all details, but in general).

I'd add that the game has to be from Chaosium or at least have Chaosium involvement. Otherwise we could shoehorn just about any percentile based RPG. Privateers & Gentlemen is practically RQ2 adapted to the Age of Sail.   Although Rudy Kraft was involved with it. It's about as "on the line" as you can get.

[AndreJarosch]

8 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

No necessarily,sometimes the optional stats are on a scale similar to characteristics. MOV, Magic Points, etc 

I meant: passions, relationships, etc. Stats you roll for. 

 

8 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

I'd add that the game has to be from Chaosium or at least have Chaosium involvement. Otherwise we could shoehorn just about any percentile based RPG. Privateers & Gentlemen is practically RQ2 adapted to the Age of Sail.   Although Rudy Kraft was involved with it. It's about as "on the line" as you can get.

I count Legend, Mythras, OpenQuest, Deltra Green, among others as "BRP RPGs". 

 

[g33k]

4 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

...

Skill points come from culture/origin, profession/education and hobby/personal interests... optionally also race/ethnicity and/or religion/cult.

No character classes, no levels.

...

Sometimes, a package-of-skill-points is called a "Profession"
Sometimes it's called a "Class."

I wouldn't get hung up on the nomenclature there.

(looking in particular at "Classic Fantasy" which absolutely  belongs in the list of BRP games... and arguably violates this stricture.

[Atgxtg]

2 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

I meant: passions, relationships, etc. Stats you roll for. 

THat wasn't really a BRP thing. It was a Pendragon thing that was ported over to RQG, and Pendragon did it on a 1-20 scale.

2 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

I count Legend, Mythras, OpenQuest, Deltra Green, among others as "BRP RPGs". 

I'd count Delta Green, since it is for CoC, but not the others as they are independent RPGs produced by other companies that omit or change some of the regular features of BRP games.  I consider them BRP adjacent. Otherwise Privateers & Gentlemen is definitely BRP, and a bunch of skill based, percentile based  RPGs such as Harnmaster could fit the definition.  Plus the fact that if if  Legend, Mythras, OpenQuest actually even called themselves BRP they'd be in legal trouble kind of supports the idea that they are not BRP. 

But it  depends on where we all want to draw the line. That my definition manages to exclude MRQ isn't exactly accidental. Still, BRP has had so many offshots and variations by now that we can find an exception for almost any feature. RQG, CoC7 and the UGE all divert from traditional BRP games in some way.

 

What traits exclude a game from being considered BRP?

 

Edited January 5 by Atgxtg

[Kloster]

Legally speaking, I would say 'if not a Chaosium game, licensed or authorized  by Chaosium', in addition of being a D100 roll under for skills system. There are so many differeces between Chaosium games that is is very difficult to have a clear definition, ruleswise.

[g33k]

23 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

THat wasn't really a BRP thing. It was a Pendragon thing that was ported over to RQG, and Pendragon did it on a 1-20 scale...

But Pendragon is widely acknowledged as a BRP game with the d100/5 dice scale baked in, eliminating the sometime-X5 scale to boost 3-18's up to d100 scale.

 

27 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

... but not the others as they are independent RPGs produced by other companies that omit or change some of the regular features of BRP games ...

All those ones mentioned on this tangent derive from RuneQuest, either the SRD based on the (invalid) MRQ1-OGL (which AFAIK subsequent publishers have worked out their own license with Chaosium) or upon the MRQ2-RQ6 (Nash-Whitaker) line.

So they have the actual lineage there... even if born on the wrong side of the blanket.

[Atgxtg]

11 minutes ago, g33k said:

But Pendragon is widely acknowledged as a BRP game with the d100/5 dice scale baked in, eliminating the sometime-X5 scale to boost 3-18's up to d100 scale.

Is it? It doesn't have POW, and uses an opposed D20 game mechanic that no (other) BRP uses. Characteristics are on a different scale, you don't see many SIZ 40 Lions in BRP games, or Humans With STR 40.

11 minutes ago, g33k said:

All those ones mentioned on this tangent derive from RuneQuest, either the SRD based on the (invalid) MRQ1-OGL (which AFAIK subsequent publishers have worked out their own license with Chaosium)

Derived from MRQ, yes. That was the problem. Mongoose managed to get a license for RQ (and for Glorantha), and since by law you can't copyright how you roll dice, they were able to use much of the RQ rules. But they could have use any set of rules and it would have been RQ, legally.

Technically someone could use most of the BRP rules now, that why games like Mythras can exist. Because you can't copywrite game mechanics. 

Jonathan Tweet admitted that D&D 3.0 was influenced by RQ. THe AC and DC systems are basically the RQ resistance table in D20 form.

11 minutes ago, g33k said:

 

or upon the MRQ2-RQ6 (Nash-Whitaker) line

Which technically isn't BRP, or else Chaosium would have some say in it. 

11 minutes ago, g33k said:

.So they have the actual lineage there... even if born on the wrong side of the blanket.

So did Privateers & Gentlemen, Other Suns, FASA  StarTrek, James Bond, and DragonQuest, and others. Lots of RPGs share some lineage with RQ, it was one of the pioneering RPGs, and probably the first skill based FRPG. So any skill based RPG, or RPGs that predominately uses percentile dice for skill rolls share some lineage. Every game that uses desgrees of success shares some lineage.  Most RPGs draw on previous RPGs in some way. I think a game needs to do more than share some lineage to be considered BRP.

It's really a matter of what makes a thing BRP, and that's tricky, and somewhat arbitrary. RuneQuest predated BRP, and was only later than the BRP booklet was written that the Chaosium house game system was retroactively called BRP. And BRP was only used to refer to RPGs made by Chaosium to refer to ther game mechanics to differiate them from other game systems, especially after they made the deal wit Avalon Hill that untiamately lead to all the "Brp-like" RPGS. No one else did/could/can) use that term without Chasoium's permission. Legally, BRP belongs to Chasoium the way "Big Mac" belongs to McDonalds. That doesn't mean that some other company can't make a burger nearly identical to a Big Mac, they can. But it still isn't a Big Mac.

Part of the criteria is that  it has to be a Chaosium created game to be BRP. Mythras isn't BRP. It shares ancestry with BRP but isn't BRP. Nor do they claim it is. Sure you can port over 90% of Mythras to BRP and vice versa, but then you can do that with D&D and Pathfinder. But Pathfinder isn't D&D. 

Again, the question is what prevents a RPG from being BRP? Legally not being able to claim that something is BRP probably should factor into it somewhere.

 

But if you take the legal issues out of it, then it gets very hard to draw the line, and a lot of non-BRP games could be called BRP. 

 

 

 

[AndreJarosch]

I think the legal factor of what can be NAMED a BRP game and what can´t is clear. 

I don´t want to call MYTHRAS or LEGEND or OPENQUEST a BRP game. 
I would like to flesh out where the line is what kind of roll-under d100 RPG (influenced by BRP) would be included in the "greater BRPfamily" of RPGs, and what kind of roll-under d100 RPG you don´t consider as part of the "greater BRP family" of RPGs. 

Since the heritage (gaming DNA) of Mythras, Legend, OpenQuest, Revolution D100, etc. comes directly from BRP (but branched of) i count them as part of the "familiy", while i don´t count Warhammer Fantasy, Harnmaster and Dragonbane (to only name a few) as part of this "familiy" of RPGs. 

[Mugen]

3 hours ago, g33k said:

Sometimes, a package-of-skill-points is called a "Profession"
Sometimes it's called a "Class."

I wouldn't get hung up on the nomenclature there.

(looking in particular at "Classic Fantasy" which absolutely  belongs in the list of BRP games... and arguably violates this stricture.

To me, the difference is that a class does not only affects your starting skill package, but also how you can improve your skills afterwards.

If it's difficult or impossible for your character to improve his weapon or outdoor skills because he's a "Wizard", that's a character class. And that makes a huge difference to me.

Of course, using that definition, Rolemaster "Professions" are classes. 😄

[Mugen]

2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

I'd count Delta Green, since it is for CoC, (...)

Nitpick : Delta Green is now an independent RPG produced by another company that omit or change some of the regular features of BRP games. 🙂

[Atgxtg]

1 hour ago, Mugen said:

Nitpick : Delta Green is now an independent RPG produced by another company that omit or change some of the regular features of BRP games. 🙂

Yeah, but it was BRP at one time. Is it now? Good question. At what point does a BRP game cease being a BRP game? All the newer edtions of  BRP games have made changes to the rules. The resistance table used to be a given. 

This is a real big can of worms, there are games that technically aren't BRP but use very similar game mechanics. Any definition outside of the legal/official one is going to be arbitrary in some way. I doubt we will get a consensus on the non-Chaosium stuff. 

Fortunately, it doesn't really matter. Unless someone is trying to publish something what difference does it make? If I found stats for something that I needed for a BRP game in a BRP related or even a non-BRP product, I'd still look them over and see if I can port them over. There is usually enough information in both games to make a reasonable conversion. And enough differences among the official BRP games that the conversion is probably close enough. 

[NickMiddleton]

“Basic Role Playing” is a Chaosium trademark, originally applied to that 1980 booklet. A version of that booklet was supplied in various Chaosium boxed RPGs… so the only robust, precise definition isn’t one that delineates in terms of rules mechanisms: because it’s any game Chaosium chooses to apply their trademark to.

Some time back (as in a decade or more ago…) discussions here I think talked about a BRP “family” of games, founded with the original RuneQuest, with the Mongoose systems as a major separate but obviously related “fork” (borrowing from software terminology). One could argue that Pendragon, Nephilim and CoC 7e are also lesser forks as they diverge more than say RQ3 /  RQ:RiG / Stormbringer / Hawkmoon / CoC 1-7 / Elric! / Magic World.

• Quote

   

  • Characteristics in values between 3-18 (strength, constitution, size, intelligence, dexterity, power and charisma/appearance... but the names msay vary... and some can be omitted or added), which can also be multiplied by 5 to give values between 15-90%.
  • Skill values that are expressed as percentages and must rolled under to be successful (with Critical Success, Success, Failure and Fumble... optionally further sub-levels such as Special Success).
  • Skill points come from culture/origin, profession/education and hobby/personal interests... optionally also race/ethnicity and/or religion/cult.
  • No character classes, no levels.
  • Characteristics change only rarely and little.
  • Hit-points maximum value rarely changes during the course of the game.
  • Skill values improve in small steps through use or apprenticeship (optionally also with freely chosen “experience rolls”).
  • Other (optional) stats of the character are also expressed in percentages (passions, relationships, etc.).
  • Weapons inflict random determined damage (from 1d3 - 2d10...). Armor stops part of the potential damage (usually a fixed value, but it can also be a randomly determined).

   

   

is a pretty good list of the dominant characteristics of the core BRP family - if a game has all those it’s very reasonable to describe it as  BRP based I think, and the fewer of those a game has the further away it is from what most would easily recognise as BRP, but I am sceptical we can non-arbitrarily draw a line one side of which it’s BRP and the other it is not.

My rule of thumb remains: could I with limited or no house ruling build the rule set from what’s in the BGB (or now UGE)? Then it’s a BRP game. If I have to do more substantial house ruling then it’s more distantly related rather than a direct descendant / relative.

 

Edited January 6 by NickMiddleton

[Kloster]

11 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Part of the criteria is that  it has to be a Chaosium created game to be BRP.

Nephilim has been created by Nephilim (a french RPG company), not by Chaosium, but is BRP. This is why I wrote 'licensed or authorized  by Chaosium'. Same for BaSic, created by Jeux Descartes and Casus Belli, that was licensed from Chaosium.

[AndreJarosch]

1 hour ago, NickMiddleton said:

is a pretty good list of the dominant characteristics of the core BRP family - if a game has all those it’s very reasonable to describe it as  BRP based I think, and the fewer of those a game has the further away it is from what most would easily recognise as BRP, but I am sceptical we can non-arbitrarily draw a line one side of which it’s BRP and the other it is not.

My rule of thumb remains: could I with limited or no house ruling build the rule set from what’s in the BGB (or now UGE)? Then it’s a BRP game. If I have to do more substantial house ruling then it’s more distantly related rather than a direct descendant / relative.

 

Have a look right here at BRP Central. 
Right under the "The Chaosium Forums" are the "The BRP Family" Forums: 
Mythras (which includes Classic Fantasy, M-Space, Odd Soot, etc.), D101 Games (aka OpenQuest, Rivers of Heaven, etc.), Reniassance (which includes Clockwork & Chivalry, Dark Streets etc.), Legend, Renaissance D100, Quest 21 and Delta Green. 

THESE are the ones i also count among the "BRP Family". 
Warhammer Fantasy, Harnmaster, etc. while they also use a d100 roll-under system are not part of the greater BRP-family. 

[Mugen]

7 hours ago, Kloster said:

Nephilim has been created by Nephilim (a french RPG company), not by Chaosium, but is BRP. This is why I wrote 'licensed or authorized  by Chaosium'. Same for BaSic, created by Jeux Descartes and Casus Belli, that was licensed from Chaosium.

You meant Multisim. 😉 

[Atgxtg]

7 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

Have a look right here at BRP Central. 

I did.

7 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

Right under the "The Chaosium Forums" are the "The BRP Family" Forums: 

 

No it doesn't it shows "The D100 Family"

So you own evidence contradicts your statement.

7 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

Mythras (which includes Classic Fantasy, M-Space, Odd Soot, etc.), D101 Games (aka OpenQuest, Rivers of Heaven, etc.), Reniassance (which includes Clockwork & Chivalry, Dark Streets etc.), Legend, Renaissance D100, Quest 21 and Delta Green. 

Which begs the question why there are there and not in the upper section. And the reason is they are not Chasoium games, and thus not BRP. THey might be very close to BRP but not BRP.

 

7 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

THESE are the ones i also count among the "BRP Family". 
Warhammer Fantasy, Harnmaster, etc. while they also use a d100 roll-under system are not part of the greater BRP-family. 

Why those and not other BRP similar games? What is your criteria? That they have a forum here? And why do you exclude Privateers & Gentlemen?

I think if we are going to get any sort of consensus we have to have a commonly accepted definition of what makes a game a BRP game. The evidence shows that to be a BRP game the game must not only share some game mechanics with other BRP games, but it  come from or involve Chaosium in the way, because BRP is a trademark.

 

 

 

 

[DreadDomain]

15 hours ago, NickMiddleton said:

“Basic Role Playing” is a Chaosium trademark, originally applied to that 1980 booklet. A version of that booklet was supplied in various Chaosium boxed RPGs… so the only robust, precise definition isn’t one that delineates in terms of rules mechanisms: because it’s any game Chaosium chooses to apply their trademark to.

What can legally be called BRP is quite clear and factual. What is perceived by gamers as a BRP-based game is more subjective, emotional and personal. Does it feel like a BRP variant when it's played? 

15 hours ago, NickMiddleton said:

Some time back (as in a decade or more ago…) discussions here I think talked about a BRP “family” of games, founded with the original RuneQuest, with the Mongoose systems as a major separate but obviously related “fork” (borrowing from software terminology). One could argue that Pendragon, Nephilim and CoC 7e are also lesser forks as they diverge more than say RQ3 /  RQ:RiG / Stormbringer / Hawkmoon / CoC 1-7 / Elric! / Magic World.

I feel all the games listed above are BRP-based game with, as you say varying degrees of adherence to what is core BRP. What is core BRP will however be debatable from gamer to gamer.

15 hours ago, NickMiddleton said:

• [Insert @AndreJarosch list here]

is a pretty good list of the dominant characteristics of the core BRP family - if a game has all those it’s very reasonable to describe it as  BRP based I think, and the fewer of those a game has the further away it is from what most would easily recognise as BRP, but I am sceptical we can non-arbitrarily draw a line one side of which it’s BRP and the other it is not.

Is one way of defining the core of BRP I mostly agree with.

15 hours ago, NickMiddleton said:

My rule of thumb remains: could I with limited or no house ruling build the rule set from what’s in the BGB (or now UGE)? Then it’s a BRP game. If I have to do more substantial house ruling then it’s more distantly related rather than a direct descendant / relative.

Some will be tempted to define what is core BRP by staying close(r) to the legal definition. For me, not so much. While BRP:UGE is a clearly BRP and the main vector to develop more BRP games, it does not define what BRP is in its entirety. Without houseruling, RuneQuest, or CoC7E or Superworld cannot be recreated from it. In my mind, there are all firmly in the bullseye or core BRP.

Personally, when defining my personal views of the BRPness of a game, it has a lot more to do with a list of criteria similar to @AndreJarosch's combined with the play experience. In my definition, I couldn't care less if the game is created by, licenced or endorsed by Chaosium or how this forum is organised.

The play experience from BRP, RQ, CoC, Superworld, Stormbringer, Magic World make them 100% BRP but equally non-Chasioum games likes Mythras, Delta Green or Raiders of R'lyeh. More divergent games like Rivers of London can also feel BRP but others, still based on a BRP framework like Jackals, not so much. Others, while clearly influenced by BRP like WFRP and HarnMaster, provide me with a different play experience and are excluded from my BRP definition. 

My line is arbitrary. How can I say that Superworld and Call of Cthulhu offer the same play experience? Well ok, not quite but they still share so much similarities that they have to be siblings right? They are BRP with different dials and power levels. Not unlike using GURPS to play The Madness Dossier versus Monster Hunters or I.S.T.

[AndreJarosch]

15 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

No it doesn't it shows "The D100 Family"

So you own evidence contradicts your statement.

My point still stands. 
Why are the games given a forum here on BRP Central there, and other d100 roll-under games aren´t?
It seems that at least the owener of this site seems THEY belong here, and the others doesn´t. 

[Kloster]

16 hours ago, Mugen said:

You meant Multisim. 😉 

Jawohl mein Herr.

[Atgxtg]

6 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

My point still stands. 

How? It doesn't say what you claim it did.

6 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

Why are the games given a forum here on BRP Central there, and other d100 roll-under games aren´t?

For several reasons

1. They are games with  settings were owned by and published by Chaosium. (i.e. RuneQuest)
2. They are games that use setting that are currently being licensed by Chaosium. (i.e. Call of Cthulhu)
3. They are games written by people who have/are posting on these forums that have generated activity here, and are still being supported, and which could generate some crossover sales. (I.e. Mythas)

As for the omissions, there are also several reasons:

1.  The are games that Chasoium didn't publish or officially endorse. (i.e. Privateers & Gentelmen)
2. They are games for which the license has lapsed so they can't be used. (i.e. Ringworld)
3. They are games that are "orphaned" and don't generate much activity or interest here. (I.e. The Morrow Project RPG Expansion)

 

For awhile Ray Tourney was posting here and there was a thread for his Fire and Sword RPG, and Prince Valiant still shares the Pendragon thread despite not being a BRP game at all. Questworlds also has a forum, but isn't BRP. If the Chaosium boardgames generated enough conversations they'd get their own forums too. Because this is a website for and about  Chaosium games. 

There are some games that are definitely BRP but don't have a forum or get mentioned much here, such as Ringworld, Superworld,m and ElfQuest. Ringwolrd is certainly BRP but was a licenced setting so it's mostly overlooked. ElfQuest (which is 99% RQ3) was the same but a new license with the Pinis will bring it back. It will probably get a forum if it gets enough activity. 

As for the games that aren't in the D100 family section, had Chaosium published them, or they were still being supported by their parent company, they would have threads.

 

6 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

 

It seems that at least the owener of this site seems THEY belong here, and the others doesn´t. 

Not really. Triff doesn't actually do much of the day to day running of the site. As he last put it to me , he just pays the bills. And he had no love of MRQ/Legend, I can tell you that. He pretty much started this site after repeatedly being kicked off of the Mongosse forums. The original motivation for this site was tmostly o support the BGB, and partially to spite Mongoose for the sorry state of MRQ(1). 

These days it is really up to the moderators, that is the current people at Chasoiumn, plus the other posters here, as to  what games get a forum. It's also a good marketing strategy to have the other forums here since it improves the chances of selling Chasoium stuff to fans of those other games. If a Mythas fan sees the latest CoC product and decides to buy it, that's a win for Chaosium. Since BRP isn't D20 not everything is covered, so GMs tend to grab whatever they want from wherever they can get it.

 

Look, my point here is that when  you started this "What makes a d100 RPG a BRP-d100 RPG?",  you were trying to define what makes a game a BRP game. To do that objectively, then we need some sort of objective criteria. If you want to do it  subjectively (that is you want to say some games are or aren't based on your wishes) then it's a lot easier, but then everyone else can do the same, and their wishlist is just as valid as yours.

But to do it objectively, then we need to use objective criteria that most of us can agree on. Otherwise you are just playing favorites.

Now, objectively, for something to be considered a BRP game, it has to be able to claim it is, which means it either has to be published by Chaosium, or through some sort of licensing agreement with Chasoium. That is part of what makes something a BRP game.

It's like how Never Say Never isn't an official James Bond film. It's a James Bond stroy, and stars Sean Connery, but it isn't official, because neither Danjac S.A., Gildrose Publication Limited, nor Eon Production Limited authorized it..However, as with BRP, unless you are someone involved with this legally, does it matter? We call all consider as such for out purposes and even use stuff from it in our RPGs. 

Likewise, I've used Deep Ones in a Stormbringer adventure. For a variety of reason I could never publish that (for one thing I don't have it anymore) without getting some sort of agreement with at least Chaosium, and Michael Moorcock, which would essential require a renewal of the Stormbrigner agreement (wish me luck!) and might require a third party's involvement depending on what other RPGs deal Moorcock has going,  but fortunately I didn't have to do all of that in order to run an adventure for my gaming group. Likewise If I saw something in a Mythras supplement I wanted to use in BRP, or say, wanted to use the firearm stats from Investigator Weapons in a new Delta Green campaign, I could and would. That wouldn't make those things BRP, just close enough to be compatable with BRP.

But really, by definition they are not BRP, that's why they aren't included in the upper section. It why when those same companies produced BRP supplements they are counted in the BRP section.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Raleel]

I think SIZ is not required in this mix, but it is a key indicator that they are BRP family.

Probably BRP family can be said as a direct lineage from an official BRP product. So Mythras counts as it was RQ6 which was BRP. Legend as well. Warhammer doesn't get there as there are few if any structures outside of d100 to get you there. Raiders of Ryleh gets there as much of its work comes out of ideas in legend and Mythras. 

On 1/5/2025 at 6:16 AM, AndreJarosch said:

Characteristics in values between 3-18 (strength, constitution, size, intelligence, dexterity, power and charisma/appearance... but the names msay vary... and some can be omitted or added), which can also be multiplied by 5 to give values between 15-90%.

Skill values that are expressed as percentages and must rolled under to be successful (with Critical Success, Success, Failure and Fumble... optionally further sub-levels such as Special Success).

Skill points come from culture/origin, profession/education and hobby/personal interests... optionally also race/ethnicity and/or religion/cult.

No character classes, no levels.

Characteristics change only rarely and little.

Hitpoints maximum value rarely changes during the course of the game.

Skill values improve in small steps through use or apprenticeship (optionally also with freely chosen “experience rolls”).

Other (optional) stats of the character are also expressed in percentages (passions, relationships, etc.).

Weapons inflict random determined damage (from 1d3 - 2d10...). Armor stops part of the potential damage (usually a fixed value, but it can also be a randomly determined).

 

On this

• i don't think there are any examples where stats are outside of 3-18
• skills expressed as percentages works except for Pendragon, which is about the fringest of them. A relatively large collection of skills is a good start
• skill point splitting is pretty good. I think most of them do this, but there are options to not (Skill Pyramid, for example)
• Classic fantasy has classes, but they are represented as careers. they also have a small number of levels, as do cults in Mythras. This probably is not a great metric, but it is largely true. 
• Characteristic change was more of a thing in early runequest as I remember, but it's not common now.
• hit points rarely changing is pretty true. even in classic fantasy, they don't go up very much
• skill values changing by sub 5% is pretty common, though again Pendragon breaks the rule.
• this is pretty good, and again pendragon breaks the rule
• armor as damage resistance is very common.