Help - d100/Legend/BRP/RQ Confusion

[mithrandir138]

Sorry, in advance, about posting a general question about d100/RQ-like games in the RQ thread, but, I didn't see a general forum for this type of question. I picked this one because RQ is apparently the daddy of the fantasy d100's.

Ok, I am a total newbie when it comes to this line of games (RQ, MRQII, Legend, OpenQuest, etc.). (With the exception of a little knowledge of the Call of Cthulhu mechanics) I am looking for a fantasy system where I can possibly build my own world and have a rules system with a relatively flat learning curve but a sense of realism. I want the "on ramp" to the system to be pretty easy to deal with because the circles I run in are more accustomed to OSR/D&D-like systems, and I don't want to scare people off.

If a comparison of these games is on a FAQ somewhere, please point me in the right direction. I really have no idea what the right system would be. It seems like there are a few of these fantasy-themed d100 games and I am not sure how compatible they all are (I am assuming they are pretty close) and I don't know why you would pick one over the other.

Again, I am completely new to this line of games and I have no bias in any way to any of them. I do, however, have a copy of Legend because I took advantage of $1 sale at DriveThruRPG, I have read some of it and I like it, so far. That's what brought me here, frankly -- however, it seems like it was made because Mongoose was losing the RQ license, and they wanted to still make games based on the MRQII system and keep their other MRQII products from being obsolete. I am not sure what the community adoption is like for it or what the future of the system is. It seems like people really like RQ6, but, I am not sure I want to dive into that because the Glorantha canon seems to come along with it.

I have been following Crooked Staff Publishing for a bit, because I like the geomorphs that Kris does, which got me into looking at his Age of Shadow system. But it has its own default setting, which is good, but I want to start to make my own.

Could someone please help me make sense of all of this or point me in the right direction to develop my own opinion, because right now, I am confused.

Thanks!

[nclarke]

Legend is a good start. It's relatively easy to learn (compared to OSR and D&D) and the various systems are pretty interchangeable as far as creatures and adventures go.

Glorantha is the grandaddy of campaign worlds for D100 but there are others about. If you want to set up your own world than it's as easy to do with a D100 system as anything else. Draw a map for yourself and put in a city (that the PC's could start in), place the various tribes or other civilizations that the PC's can come from. Throw in a few abandoned temples or catacombs ( you only need to fill these out when your players go that way) and that should be it. If you want to add a plot fine, just make sure you know where the plot locations will be and who the protagonists are.

[GianniVacca]

It depends on whether you are looking for a "tool set" kind of rules, or not. If you're looking for the former, then use Chaosium's BRP; if you're looking for the latter, then choose MRQII-Legend/RuneQuest/OpenQuest depending on your budget (they are quite similar). If you are not planning to play in Glorantha, keep your Legend PDF. That should enable you to play in your own setting.

[lawrence.whitaker]

It seems like people really like RQ6, but, I am not sure I want to dive into that because the Glorantha canon seems to come along with it.

Hi Mithrandir, and welcome to the world of BRP!

RQ6 doesn't carry ANY Glorantha canon at all. Its a generic set of rules skewed towards gritty fantasy. If you like Legend, you'll like RQ6. Its a far more refined version of those rules with many more options. You won't find a single thing in there related to Glorantha, so you needn't feel that diving into RQ6 also means diving into Glorantha, because it doesn't.

[soltakss]

Sorry, in advance, about posting a general question about d100/RQ-like games in the RQ thread, but, I didn't see a general forum for this type of question. I picked this one because RQ is apparently the daddy of the fantasy d100's.

It is indeed.

Ok, I am a total newbie when it comes to this line of games (RQ, MRQII, Legend, OpenQuest, etc.). (With the exception of a little knowledge of the Call of Cthulhu mechanics) I am looking for a fantasy system where I can possibly build my own world and have a rules system with a relatively flat learning curve but a sense of realism. I want the "on ramp" to the system to be pretty easy to deal with because the circles I run in are more accustomed to OSR/D&D-like systems, and I don't want to scare people off.

The beauty of all the D100 systems is that they are all basically simple. You roll a D100 and try to roll under your skill. The rest is just a series of variations on that theme. Once you grasp that then you should be able to use most of these games.

If a comparison of these games is on a FAQ somewhere, please point me in the right direction. I really have no idea what the right system would be. It seems like there are a few of these fantasy-themed d100 games and I am not sure how compatible they all are (I am assuming they are pretty close) and I don't know why you would pick one over the other.

I used to have a spreadsheet that compared the systems, but I can't seem to find it. If I can find a link, I'll post it here.

Again, I am completely new to this line of games and I have no bias in any way to any of them. I do, however, have a copy of Legend because I took advantage of $1 sale at DriveThruRPG, I have read some of it and I like it, so far. That's what brought me here, frankly -- however, it seems like it was made because Mongoose was losing the RQ license, and they wanted to still make games based on the MRQII system and keep their other MRQII products from being obsolete. I am not sure what the community adoption is like for it or what the future of the system is. It seems like people really like RQ6, but, I am not sure I want to dive into that because the Glorantha canon seems to come along with it.

Legend is a good place to start as it is modern, is pretty much compatible with RQ and is a well-supported system.

It is also OGL, which means that you can legitimately use the rules in your own settings, then publish them.

Could someone please help me make sense of all of this or point me in the right direction to develop my own opinion, because right now, I am confused.

Legend contains a good set of fantasy rules. It is also very modular, so you can insert other rules or create new rules if you prefer.

RQ6 is built on the same source as Legend and is a very fully developed set of fantasy rules. It will be well supported, but hasn't been going for long, so doesn't have any supplements (apart from some excellent free PDFs).

BRP is similar to older versions of RQ/BRP and covers many genres. It is a toolkit where you can pick and choose which rules you prefer. It has pulp fiction, SciFi and Fantasy rules built in, which gives it a slight advantage when using those settings.

I would stick with Legend, as it is a good system, is well-supported and will have many more third party supplements coming out in the next few years. It also can be customised to be whatever you want it to be.

As for your own setting, that is fairly easy to do. All you need to do is to c#decide what kind of setting it is (Fantasy, SciFi etc), then work out what races you need, what backgrounds/professions they have, what technology you want and what skills you find important. If it is a fantasy setting, then you could throw in cults, as part of Legend magic is cult based, and/or magic. If it's a SciFi setting then you might want Psi powers. Or you might prefer no powers at all. That gives you the bare bones of the setting. Legend is built to write up settings in this manner and it is very quick and very easy.

[soltakss]

One more thing - don't forget to steal ideas from every setting that takes your fancy. Why write up new spells when there is a wealth of spells already published, for example.

[mithrandir138]

Hi Mithrandir, and welcome to the world of BRP!

Thanks! Glad to be here!

RQ6 doesn't carry ANY Glorantha canon at all. Its a generic set of rules skewed towards gritty fantasy. If you like Legend, you'll like RQ6. Its a far more refined version of those rules with many more options. You won't find a single thing in there related to Glorantha, so you needn't feel that diving into RQ6 also means diving into Glorantha, because it doesn't.

Pardon my ignorance, but I thought the "Runes" in RuneQuest were Gloranthan in nature, referring to the pantheon, etc. Arguably they could be seen as "generic", but I thought it was an integral part of the setting. (What I was basing my previous opinion on: Glorantha: Mastering the Runes ) Goes to show you that I have a lot to learn!

[mithrandir138]

@soltakss Thanks for the info/clarification/recommendation(s). I am excited to start using the system!

[mithrandir138]

One more thing - don't forget to steal ideas from every setting that takes your fancy. Why write up new spells when there is a wealth of spells already published, for example.

Without a doubt I will be doing this! "Good artists copy, great artists steal" -- Picaso, T.S. Eliot, whoever --

[Robsbot]

I'm surprised nobody has suggested Classic Fantasy! Classic Fantasy tries to bring the d100 system more in line with d&d. It has a lot of the rules adjustments that RQ6 has like hit locations and whatnot. The BRB also has all the RQ6 optional rules listed in it as well, as well as lots of other optional rules you can try out. You need the BRB to use Classic Fantasy as it adjusts and references lots of the spells from it but that gives a good fantasy background that is setting independent that your d&d players may enjoy more. Both books can be purchased from Chaosium.

RQ6 is a good system and is completely found it one book, albeit it's a bit expensive. It has no optional rules and assumes you use all the adjustments they make to the d100 system and I tend to find a few of them kind of clunky. The magic in the book, while very good, tends to favor being part of magical societies and progressing in them so you may have to spend adventuring time back at a sort of base camp for your magical society although it makes for very easy way to add epic quests to advance in the societies. Like others have said the new RQ6 chucked all the gorlantha stuff out the window so its very setting independent as well.

I heavily recommend looking at all the magic systems available out there. Some of them are extremely innovate (Elric sorcery found in the BRB and expanded in The Bronze Grimore is my favorite) and can have different power levels and costs. Some of them require massive sacrifice, but give huge power (BRB, Elric Sorcery) while others are more utilitarian but require no study or sacrifice (RQ6 folk magic) and some of them are more middle of the road with their own pros and cons (BRB magic, Classic Fantasy). I have a thread entitled Magic Heavy Fantasy Supplements over in the general section with a list of supplements I've found helpful crafting my fantasy campaign that may give you some ideas.

I have zero experience with Legend or Openquest, so please let us know if you pick those up and how they work for your group because I would love to hear your experience and what about those systems you liked and what you didn't like.

EDIT: I just wanted to expand a bit on my post, as I think it sounded a bit unfair to RQ6. Personally I love the book and I think it's worth every penny. However, I'll never run it as is due to personal taste, and that should not put you off of using it as is. The beauty of BRP is that you can always supplement a system from any other book with little effort. Just pick it up and plop it in. The benefit of picking up several systems is immense, and I think RQ6 is one that EVERY BRP fantasy player should have on their shelf. It gives some great ideas and magic systems based on societies which can be great for roleplaying but is something that may be different and unwelcome to your current group as they may feel unnecessarily restricted but it's a great tool for you as the GM to limit their power and reward them with quests for their society that yield powerful spells.

Personally, in my fantasy setting I'm using every system I can get my hands on. I'll have Mages from BRP / Classic Fantasy that run one culture. They have a sprawling Mage's college that has several schools of study. The deans (still working on nomenclature) of each school make up a counsel that rules their area. I'll have Mysticists from RQ6 which are tweaked a bit. They aren't tied to a society and instead gain new enhancements through self reflection and good roleplaying. I'll have Sorcerers that follow the BRP/Elric/Bronze Grimoire system. Sorcerers are egotistical, secretive with their spells, and are going to be some of the hardest adversaries my PC's will face. I'll have Witches and Warlocks from BRP Witchcraft that lack more offensive magic but have a wide array of great utility spells and more subtle ways to kill their enemies or manipulate people.

That's just a sample. I currently have 10 seperate systems which I'm actively crafting societies around to enhance my setting. Each system has its pros and cons which can help your PC's find a unique character they enjoy that fit your setting but can also help you make different cultures and NPC's that don't all feel similar. If you have the money pick up several books and take the rules and systems you enjoy and use them to bring to life the setting you have envisioned.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Robsbot

[Chorpa]

Well as many already have said any d100 system does the trick. I myself have have the Legend books and really like them and nothing wrong with them. The only thing I dislike is the way they approach Sorcery. Since there are really no rules on how to create your own grimoires and they assume the only way to find new spells is to learn new grimoires. But this is just a minor annoyance and easy to correct with house rules. As I understand RQ6 is almost the same but with just a little bit more crunch and more magic systems. I myself are waiting for the upcoming Magic World since that uses the Elric/BRP Sorcery that I prefer more. For now I run my fantasy campaign with BRP and the Equipment Chapter from Classic Fantasy. But if you want to keep the D&D feel but move it to d100/BRP system I do agree with Robshot that Classic Fantasy is your pick the whole aim for that book is that "Old School" feel from the earlier editions of D&D but without the limitations of that system.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Chorpa

[silent_bob]

I recommend BRP Classic Fantasy since you and you players are already used to old school D&D. Classic Fantasy emulates 1st ed. AD&D in the BRP/RuneQuest rule system. It has the same classes, races, levels, alignment, spells etc... and this is all combined with the excellent BRP game mechanics.

Please note that you will have to buy the BRP rules ($22.00 pdf) and the Classic Fantasy rules ($16.00 pdf).

I had high hopes for RQ6, but it's initiative and combat systems are very cumbersome. Classic Fantasy handles combat much better, while adding mechanics to BRP for facing, zone of control, actions, etc...

You can buy the BRP pdf here:

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/24384/Basic-Roleplaying?term=chaosium+&it=1

You can buy the Classic Fantasy pdf Here:

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/82084/Classic-Fantasy

Sorry, in advance, about posting a general question about d100/RQ-like games in the RQ thread, but, I didn't see a general forum for this type of question. I picked this one because RQ is apparently the daddy of the fantasy d100's.

Ok, I am a total newbie when it comes to this line of games (RQ, MRQII, Legend, OpenQuest, etc.). (With the exception of a little knowledge of the Call of Cthulhu mechanics) I am looking for a fantasy system where I can possibly build my own world and have a rules system with a relatively flat learning curve but a sense of realism. I want the "on ramp" to the system to be pretty easy to deal with because the circles I run in are more accustomed to OSR/D&D-like systems, and I don't want to scare people off.

If a comparison of these games is on a FAQ somewhere, please point me in the right direction. I really have no idea what the right system would be. It seems like there are a few of these fantasy-themed d100 games and I am not sure how compatible they all are (I am assuming they are pretty close) and I don't know why you would pick one over the other.

Again, I am completely new to this line of games and I have no bias in any way to any of them. I do, however, have a copy of Legend because I took advantage of $1 sale at DriveThruRPG, I have read some of it and I like it, so far. That's what brought me here, frankly -- however, it seems like it was made because Mongoose was losing the RQ license, and they wanted to still make games based on the MRQII system and keep their other MRQII products from being obsolete. I am not sure what the community adoption is like for it or what the future of the system is. It seems like people really like RQ6, but, I am not sure I want to dive into that because the Glorantha canon seems to come along with it.

I have been following Crooked Staff Publishing for a bit, because I like the geomorphs that Kris does, which got me into looking at his Age of Shadow system. But it has its own default setting, which is good, but I want to start to make my own.

Could someone please help me make sense of all of this or point me in the right direction to develop my own opinion, because right now, I am confused.

Thanks!

Edited December 27, 2012 by silent_bob

[Mankcam]

I reckon Legend is one of the cheapest and best products to kick off if you like Fantasy, and perhaps upgrade to RQ6 later if you want more crunch. Magic World may also be a good place to start, once its released. I personally like BRP with a distinctly old RQ3 flavour, but if I was kicking it off with a new troupe I'ld definitely lean towards Legend and RQ6.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Mankcam

[soltakss]

It would be nice if Classic Fantasy could be ported to Legend - That would be a really good system for introducing people to D100 games, even better than CF/BRP.

[DamonJynx]

I think you could without too much trouble, though it would probably be easier to port the Legend bits you like into CF rather than the other way around.

Personally, I prefer Legends combat rules to those in BRP/CF and RQ6. I find CF's rules too limiting (i.e. multiple attacks available only after skill exceeds 100% and then significantly reduced, parrying at massive penalties though you do get many more reactions) and though RQ6's are very similar they are a little too heavy, particularly regarding tactical movement, though I love the Special Effects (Combat Manoeuvres) and have imported them fully into my MRQ11/Legend Elric campaign. Which by-the-by is a perfect supplement for gritty Swords & Sorcery games and why I initially chose MRQ11 over BRP. To get the same flavour in BRP required the addition of too many optional rules and frankly, I couldn't be bothered when MRQ11/Legend had them right out of the box.

[threedeesix]

Personally, I prefer Legends combat rules to those in BRP/CF and RQ6. I find CF's rules too limiting (i.e. multiple attacks available only after skill exceeds 100% and then significantly reduced, parrying at massive penalties though you do get many more reactions)

When CF was written three, maybe four years ago, I was restricted to being BRP compatible. After all, it was being written as a supplement to an existing set of rules. Now, with the chance to write a 2nd edition with its own built in game system I have had those restrictions lifted. I'm already on the combat system of the new book and all I can say is I think you may be pleased.

Everything that was in the CF combat system before is in there now. However it is now being laid out to not look so much like you need to use miniatures. For example, all of the close and ranged combat rules follow what you may already be familiar with in Legend for example, but then there are sidebars/text boxes that are labeled "Miniatures Rules" for things like line of sight on a square grid, zone of control, etc.

The Classic Fantasy 2nd ed combat system should appeal to both fans of miniatures combat and of a more fast and loose combat system. It's just that I have always been a believer of "a rule for everything". As a game master, I would rather have an official rule in place than have to make one up on the fly. After all, Im the game master, If I want to make one up, I still can.

On a side note, my choice to go with one of the many D100 OpenGame licenses, when they are all a part of the same license as the d20 OpenGame license means great things for the future of Classic Fantasy. After all, I can make it a D100 game system, the best system out there in my opinion, and I think, (have to double check, I'm no lawyer) use terminology and even text from the d20 SRD. For example, I remember a few years back asking on this forum what I should rename the Owlbear, which under normal circumstances just a few years ago would have been a WOTC trademark. Well, it’s in the d20SRD along with other old standbys like the drow, carrion crawler, gelatinous cube, etc.

Still can’t use the beholder however.

More to follow,

Rod

[soltakss]

Everything that was in the CF combat system before is in there now. However it is now being laid out to not look so much like you need to use miniatures. For example, all of the close and ranged combat rules follow what you may already be familiar with in Legend for example, but then there are sidebars/text boxes that are labeled "Miniatures Rules" for things like line of sight on a square grid, zone of control, etc.

Sounds good.

On a side note, my choice to go with one of the many D100 OpenGame licenses, when they are all a part of the same license as the d20 OpenGame license means great things for the future of Classic Fantasy. After all, I can make it a D100 game system, the best system out there in my opinion, and I think, (have to double check, I'm no lawyer) use terminology and even text from the d20 SRD. For example, I remember a few years back asking on this forum what I should rename the Owlbear, which under normal circumstances just a few years ago would have been a WOTC trademark. Well, it’s in the d20SRD along with other old standbys like the drow, carrion crawler, gelatinous cube, etc.

Still can’t use the beholder however.

It makes perfect sense. The OGL is generic, even though some people have called it a Legend OGL or D20 OGL or whatever. The text is perfectly clear that you can use any OGC material that is covered by an OGL, as long as you include the correct copyrights and mention the supplements that have been used. So, that makes any D20 OGC material fair game for conversion to CF.

[threedeesix]

It makes perfect sense. The OGL is generic, even though some people have called it a Legend OGL or D20 OGL or whatever. The text is perfectly clear that you can use any OGC material that is covered by an OGL, as long as you include the correct copyrights and mention the supplements that have been used. So, that makes any D20 OGC material fair game for conversion to CF.

Thats how I read it as well. Thanks.

[DamonJynx]

Rodney, that is good news, because while I may not use it in its current version, I really like CF. It is an innovative take on AD&D/D100 and well written. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product.

[Prime Evil]

Wow...you just made my day. The thought of a new version of CF containing OGC usable with it's own built-in rule system or material from any of the d100 variants is too cool for words!