Modern compound bow vs. legendary weapons?

[Atgxtg]

Were did you find this ? I’ve only seen the DEX/3 rule p. 206 for short range, which is absolutely not tailored for bows, and the skill penalty for medium range (twice the effective range at 1/2 skill) and the long range (4 times effective range at 1/4 skill)

Now that I understood your rule, I find it quite interesting. We only have to adjust the values.

Following are range modifiers for missile weapons:

Target is within the attacker’s DEX/3 meters (even if the

target is prone): skill is Easy.

Target is within the weapon’s standard listed range: no

modifier.

Target is at medium range (double the weapon’s standard

listed range): the attack is Difficult.

Target is at long range (quadruple the weapon’s standard

listed range): the attack is ¼ normal skill chance.

Extended Range

If your character is using a missile weapon, he or she may

attempt to hit a target at up to double the base range.

Attacks beyond the base range are considered Difficult. At

three times the base range, the chance becomes 1/4 of the

normal skill rating. At quadruple base range, the chance

decreases to 1/8 the normal skill rating.

For attacks at more than double the base range, the

damage done by the missile is halved, after rolling.

Damage is not reduced further beyond three or four

times the base range.

Small hand-propelled weapons such as the throwing

knife and the throwing axe have no chance to hit

beyond double base range.

And yes, the long ranges from page 206 ans 223 don't match up. There are quite a lot of this in the big gold book.

A bowyer in Germany proposes among others play tool self bows for 3+ year old children, 7-12lbs (STR 01 ?) or self bows for bigger children or beginners 12-40lbs (STR 5 ?). So a 40-60lbs bow would be in the STR 09 range.

I made a self bow with this guy (of rattan), about 25 lbs (STR 05), the extreme maximum range was about 80m. With a better wood, we could reach may be 100m? With twice as much draw, let’s say 200m, 240m maximum. I would therefore stay by the BRP’s 60m effective range for a STR 09.

Let’s compare your suggestion and the BRP:

Self bow

Your rule: range 80m, STR 9, 1d6+1

BRP Rule: range 60m, STR9, 1d6+1

THe missle weapons table on page 248, and on list the Self bow's range at 80, not 60. Where did you see 60? Is there a different value on another table?

Composite bow

Yours: range 120m, STR12 (=13-1), 1d8+1

BRP’s: range 120m, STR13, 1d8+1+1/2db (which is often 1d2 at STR13) = more damage than in your rule

Long Bow:

Yours: range 120m, STR11 (=13-2), 1d8+1

BRP’s: range 100m, STR11, 1d8+1

THe missile weapon table on page 252 lists the range of a long bow at 90 not 100. Where did you get 100?

Self and long bows are getting better with your rule, while the composite loses its range and damage advantage and is made less efficient than the long bow. Of course, it can be used on horseback. I would still increase the STR bonus for composite at least to the level of the long bow: composite bows had curved stiffeners (”siyah”) which brought the same advantage as the “inclined plane thing we did at school” . I will therefore introduce the composite with stiffeners (STR -2, from the 3rd century in central Asia) and without stiffeners (STR -1 for the Scythian or Egyptian composite bows).

Uh, I think we still got a bit of confusion here. "Stiffeiners" would increase the power and draw weight of the bow, and thus increase the STR required to use the bow. Longbows get a STR reduction because they are easier to pull back than short bows, including composite short bows, at a given draw weight. THat is, it's eaiser to draw back on a 60 pound longbow than a 60 pound composite bow because the longer bowstave acts as a lever. THe archer is dfoing more work, but it it easier.

Now a reflex composite bow might get a similar effect due to the 'dogleg" bow staves.

This is quite a nice system, with only one single stat block for all the bows allowing to design one’s own bow.

Every kind of bow would be then written this way:

Name, STR bonus … and that’s it

Self Bow, none

Long Bow, -2

Composite bow, -1

Composite bow with stiffeners, -2

Compound bow, x1/2 (or -5 may be more consistent

That's along the right path, although I got some more modifiers that I haven't finished yet. Recurve and Double recurve bows get a STR mod, as do reflex bows. Crossbows get a STR mod for their foot strap, level, windlass, cranequein or other mechanism used to aid in drawing back the string, but pay for it with a lower rate of fire. SO far, I've hit a snag with crossbow ranges that I got to work out.

With compound bows the reduction is based upon the skill of the designer. I think the best of them can cut the pull of the bow to about 60% by using the pulleys. And that works out to about -5 STR on the SIZ table, so good call there.

For a single bow, since the STR class is equivalent to the damage class, I would simply write

Name, damage class, required STR

Ex:

Horse composite bow with stiffeners, 1d8+1 (we know this corresponds to a STR 13 bow), STR11

Foot composite bow with stiffeners, 1d10+1, STR15

Children composite bow with stiffeners, 1d6+1, STR 7 or 1d4+1, STR 3

Children self bow, 1d4+1, STR 5

All this is of course valid for human-sized bows: a self bow would be a long bow for a hobbit, btu it shall not have the advantages of teh long bow just because it is used by a Hobbit !

If it matters, I currently have the draw weight of a bow at half the kg of an equivalent SIZ. For example, a SIZ 9 object is 55kg (120lbs), so a STR 9 bow has a draw weight of 27kg (60lbs)

[Zit]

THe missle weapons table on page 248, and on list the Self bow's range at 80, not 60. Where did you see 60? Is there a different value on another table?

Mistake:( Don't ask why. No idea. May be I shall clean my spectacles. Or a rest of tiredness

THe missile weapon table on page 252 lists the range of a long bow at 90 not 100. Where did you get 100?

RQ1. It is so much impregnated in my mind, you know, after 30 years...

But in principle, it does not change what I wrote. By experience, 80m seems to be a bit long. But it is a rather short experience.

Uh, I think we still got a bit of confusion here. "Stiffeiners" would increase the power and draw weight of the bow, and thus increase the STR required to use the bow. Longbows get a STR reduction because they are easier to pull back than short bows, including composite short bows, at a given draw weight. THat is, it's eaiser to draw back on a 60 pound longbow than a 60 pound composite bow because the longer bowstave acts as a lever. THe archer is dfoing more work, but it it easier.

Now a reflex composite bow might get a similar effect due to the 'dogleg" bow staves.

It was only a false tarnslation from me: I was indeed speaking about these "dogled bow staves", rigid reflex extremities which ar not bend and they have a leverage effect while keeping a big angle between bow and string: both combined have a comparable effect as the long bow.

[Atgxtg]

Mistake:( Don't ask why. No idea. May be I shall clean my spectacles. Or a rest of tiredness

Don't feel too bad. I did something similar.

RQ1. It is so much impregnated in my mind, you know, after 30 years...

I know what you mean. I tend to draw mostly from RQ3 (IMO the best mechanics of the BRP family, lthough there are a few RQ1/2 thing's I wish they kept).

THe bow ranges in BRP are actually the effective bow ranges in RQ3. THat causes a slight problem as RQ3 had effective and max ranges that were not linked directly the way the are in BRP.

But in principle, it does not change what I wrote. By experience, 80m seems to be a bit long. But it is a rather short experience.

Kinda looks that way to me too, but I'm trying to match up with BRP. IMO, the bow rules and ranges are quite generous.

It was only a false tarnslation from me: I was indeed speaking about these "dogled bow staves", rigid reflex extremities which ar not bend and they have a leverage effect while keeping a big angle between bow and string: both combined have a comparable effect as the long bow.

Ah, then we are pretty much on the same page. I have a reflex bow modifier somewhere.

I think I will try to hunt down a similar article I did for Middle Earth and see how much of a mod I gave.

I think my progression was something like:

Recurve: 1 point

Double Recurve: 2 point

Reflex: 3 or 4 point.